Poll Dem VP Pic: your choice?

[laughing dog]

Walz alluded to a rumor about Vance - one that is neither confirmed or denied. So on what basis do call it “basically a lie”?

The claim was that the story was in Hillbilly Elegy. No such story is in there. So it's a lie.

Walz alluded to the rumor that Vance fucked a couch. To my knowledge, it has been neither been confirmed or denied. That makes it a rumor.

But if you are going to call that "basically a lie", then clearly you are spreading "basically a lie" by saying Ms. Harris fucked her way into a political position.

Also, I'm pretty sure that thing about telling a cop he was deaf when he was stopped for speeding was probably his excuse for not pulling over the very moment the cop turned on his siren - "I didn't hear you at first because I'm partially deaf" - not as the reason he was going so fast.

Is he also blind? Cop cars also have pretty bright lights.
And every time I got pulled over (not for DUI), the cops only turned on the lights. Sirens get turned on only when the lights are ignored and the car does not pull over in a reasonable time.

Btw, our future vice president's mug shot:

He had a little George Costanza thing going on ...

Why should anyone care about something relatively minor that happened about 30 years ago? I find it more than ironic that you are bringing that up but complain that bringing up a shootings from 6 to 20 years is basically dredging up the past.

 

[lpetrich]

TANSTAAFL

Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo.

Right-wingers are such sore losers.

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" applies also to military and police force.

 

[laughing dog]

Just because we disagree does not make me a misogynist.

The unrepentent persistent misogyny in your posts makes the conclusion that you are a misogynist very reasonable. In fact, it makes it inescapable.

 

[Toni]

As far as the "Harris slept her way to the top" thing, that attack falls apart for a couple reasons.

Note that it is those who are dismissing this who are adding the "to the top" part.

Yes, she dated Willie Brown, which can be said by a lot of women. He did give her a low level job in city government, but then what? She went onto become a successful prosecutor, Attorney General, Senator, and Vice President. She may have gotten her foot in the door due to her relationship with Brown, but after that everything was on her own merits.

Getting your foot in the door is a big deal in itself. Yes, she does have merits, I am not denying it, but her relationship with Browm definitely helped her career along. I do not think it is "misogynist" to point that out. Had Vance "gotten his foot in the door" by sleeping with a woman twice his age, I do not think it would be misandrist to point that out.

What else did Ivanka do in her time in government that she got by virtue of nepotism?

This is classic whataboutism. We can talk about things Kamala Harris did wrong without the Ilk chiming in "but Trump is worse". Of course Trump is worse! That does not mean that KH should be beyond criticsm.

If she were a man who'd been a top prosecutor, AG, Senator, and VP, she'd be hailed as eminently qualified to be President.

And she was. In early 2019 she was thought of as one of the favorites, if not the favorite, to win the nomination. But she made some poor judgments in her campaign, spent too much money too fast, and her run crashed and burned. But at one point her stock was high, in large part because of her impressive resume.

Where have we heard this stuff before? Hillary Rodham Clinton. She was accused of riding her husband's coat-tails,

And she no doubt did.

though if you look at the facts, she was arguably the smarter and better lawyer,

That may be so. I do not know one way or the other (any evidence for that claim?) But lawyers are a dime a dozen. Being a good lawyer by itself would not get her into the White House, or even the Senate. She never had Bill's charisma and without her being the First Lady, she would not have been even a US Senator, much less Dems' nominee for President.

and by the time she ran for the White House, she was arguably the most qualified candidate of any race or gender. Ever. Eminently well-educated, experienced attorney, Senator, Secretary of State, and one of the most consequential First Ladies in history, with a deep knowlege of the inner workings of the White House.

We already went over this many times. It's bullshit. Being married to a president is not a qualification. Period.

And here we are again, 12 years later. "She's shrill. I don't like her laugh. She slept her way to the top. She's not qualified. Women are too emotional.

KH is qualified. Unlike Hillary, she is not shrill, but she does not have the best of laughs.
What you fail to grasp is that these types of attacks are levied against all kinds of candidates. How they sound. What they look like. How they dress. All these things are there for men as well. Likeability in particular is very important.

Is she going to be ready when that 3am phone call comes in?"

That one was Hillary's attack on Obama.

Getting ahead in one's career is very much a question of relationships with others. I got my last job because I happened to run into someone I knew in an elevator, on my last day at my temp position at the place I was applying to. She told me about an opening in her area and asked for my resume. My supervisor at the temp area had looked over my resume and told me she did not understand why I was temping--and told me that now I 'knew her' and she would go to bat for me. Indeed, she was on my hiring committee. A long time ago, I got a job because I was white, female and looked pretty innocuous and could speak semi-passable French and compose an appropriate, grammatically correct business letter. At the time, I did not realize that being white was a requirement but I found that out when screening and doing preliminary interviews for my replacement. I was the major support of my family so I did not quit on the spot. Aside from a bit of casual racism and sexism, the job was pretty decent and I was treated well. It is amazing what one will overlook when one really needs the paycheck.

Truthfully, people are hired --heck, they even know about openings because of relationships with others. For any given job, there are likely many qualified candidates. The ones who are hired are the ones that the person making that decision thinks will bring the most to the position, including and even especially, their ability to work well in that particular setting--i.e. to form relationships with coworkers and contacts.

Whether or how much her relationship helped her career along is a matter of conjecture. But I am far from the only person who reads your posts who has noticed that you reserve your special nick names for women, persons of color and especially women of color. You may not be aware of it but it's very definitely noticeable. The reason it should matter to you is that it undermines whatever good points you might be making.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So veterans are to be honored and worshipped... except if they are Democrats and then they can be slandered. Yes, Sen. John Kerry did already come to mind.

Is it slander though, or is there some truth to it?

Some truth? Is that the bar now?

Gov. Walz was about 40 years old when the Iraq Invasion occurred, started serving 22 years before the invasion. Had he not done his service?

 

[lpetrich]

I am amused by some people's claims that opposition to Gov. Josh Shapiro is anti-Semitism. It's as if being Jewish means the right to do whatever one wants to. If he was more competent or qualified than the rest, or if there was a pattern of not having Jews who are as qualified as the others, then yes, that would be evidence of anti-Semitism, but neither circumstance is very evident. Bernie Sanders is Jewish, and neither he nor his supporters claim that he is a victim of anti-Semitism.

Some people did object to his hardline support of the Netanyahu regime's actions in Gaza and his dismissal of some protestors of those actions as comparable to the Ku Klux Klan. Josh Shapiro's Gaza stances resurface as he's on Harris' VP shortlist

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "Dems in disconcerting levels of array" / X

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "Vice President Harris ..." / X

Vice President Harris made an excellent decision in Gov. Walz as her running mate.

Together, they will govern effectively, inclusively, and boldly for the American people.

They won’t back down under tight odds, either - from healthcare to school lunch.

Let’s do this

and
Manchin Statement On Governor Walz As Pick For Vice President | U.S. Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia

My friend Governor Tim Walz will bring normality back to the most chaotic political environment that most of us have ever seen. All of the candidates were strong and any one of them would have been a great pick, but I can think of no one better than Governor Walz to help bring our country closer together and bring balance back to the Democratic Party. Governor Walz is the real deal. I look forward to continuing to work with him to bring normalcy back to Washington.”

 

[lpetrich]

I've found this conspiracy theory:
Report: Trump supporters pretended to be leftists calling Josh Shapiro a genocidal Palestine-killer on social media to trick Kamala into picking the weaker Walz as VP : r/BreakingPoints
noting
Trump World Fueled an Anti-Shapiro Whisper Campaign - "Now that the Pennsylvania governor is out of the way, are they ready for Walz?"

AS KAMALA HARRIS BEGAN WINDING DOWN her search for a running mate, Donald Trump’s team knew one thing clearly: It didn’t want her to pick Josh Shapiro, the popular governor of swing-state Pennsylvania whose more moderate record made him a formidable opponent.

So the Trump campaign and its allies moved to quietly kneecap Shapiro. It did so by forging a de facto alliance with the enemy of its enemy, the progressive left, which opposed Shapiro—the only Jewish candidate on Harris’s final shortlist—largely because of his pro-Israel stances. The result was a swelling of progressive opposition (some of it organic, some artificially fed) that, among other things, saw Shapiro’s online critics dub him “Genocide Josh.”

“Where we could, we amplified the leftists on Twitter. We fed Shapiro oppo [opposition research] to the media. We did what we could to create more noise and discontent,” a Trump adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity to describe internal campaign workings, told The Bulwark prior to Harris making her pick on Tuesday.

“We didn’t do that with Tim Walz,” the adviser said of the progressive blue-state Minnesota governor who ultimately scored the VP nod.

noting
Jewish lawmakers groan at "Genocide Josh" campaign against Shapiro

 

[Copernicus]

Thank you for the correction. It does make a difference, in my mind, that he didn’t write it. That would make me unwilling to repeat it, personally.

And yet Walz repeated it. Makes him very petty.

It also illustrates something I heard on the radio. Somebody referred to Harris-Walz as being all about "vibes" and "memes". And I think that's spot on. He only rose to the top over his "weird" quips. And now making fun of couches. Does not exactly inspire confidence.

Actually, you and everyone else understood that Walz was not seriously trying to spread a false rumor. He was making a joke at Vance's expense, because that false rumor had attached to him. You can call it petty, but it is petty in the sense that anyone making a play on words with sexual overtones is petty. Walz said something about Vance "not wanting to get up off the couch" with a bit of a wink, and the crowd erupted in laughter. If you watch the clip, you'll also hear him say "Do you see what I did there?" If he had then sobered up and said "but it didn't really happen", that would have stepped on the punch line.

Whether you believe the story or not, it is something that Vance himself could easily joke about, but the man has no real sense of humor. It's not the kind of pettiness involved in going after Walz for a decades old DUI charge that was dropped or the fact that he let people believe he had retired at the rank of Command Sergeant Major, when he had actually been technically demoted for failing to take the final courses to qualify at the point he retired. Those are valid criticisms of him, because he doesn't want to dwell on the DUI incident and because he padded his resume for political reasons and got called out. But they aren't serious flaws in his character or his military career. The "couch" meme doesn't say anything about Vance's character, either, except in the way he handles it. Both men are politicians with flaws. That would matter, if there was such a thing as a politician without flaws.

The facts for Derec’s edification remain salient, though. This kind of story does not create broad harm to men by the retelling, even when it’s false, as the false bit about Harris does to women.

Why? Other than sexist double standards so common in actually existing feminism.

You are tone deaf to what Rhea said. She pointed out why that kind of story does no harm to a man. Your response was to shrug her point off as if it didn't matter. Why would it matter to a guy that there is a double standard that works out in his favor? I'll leave it to you to figure out what is wrong with that picture, but I doubt you'll get it.

 

[Toni]

No, Trump's point was that Harris doesn't consider herself black. My point was I didn't remember she was Indian. Like ever.

I think his point was that she shifted which part of her ancestry she emphasized based on which helps her more. Indian in San Francisco, vantablack when running for president.
Now, you are right on one thing. I do not know for a fact what she said when she was running for DA. I was just explaining my understanding of what Trump meant, factually true or not. The second part is undoubtedly factually true though - she dialed up her black identity up to 11 in 2019.

If I knew it, it was buried in my brain somewhere. Of course, a person's identity isn't that high importance wise in my brain.

But somebody's racial identity is of chief importance for you lefties. The whole edifice of "equity" is build upon rewarding some people and punishing others based nothing except for who their ancestors have been. Indians (and other Asians) and whites get dinged when applying for college or med school, while blacks, Latinos and (feather) Indians get points in their favor. I wonder how AAMC would handle it had KH decided to pursue medicine instead ...

We are talking about Trump.

I thought we were talking about Veepstakes.

Trump brought this up to try to get blacks to not connect with Harris by saying she is only 'saying' she is black to get their vote. That is pretty fucked up.

And I was trying to make a point that it was not something Trump came up with. It was already part of discourse in the black community for years.
 American Descendants of Slavery

I noticed that was uncited/unsourced/unquoted, but I'm sure you actually were knee deep in her campaign for District Attorney during W's first term in office.

I do not, as I explained above. But I do remember her going all in on her black identity in 2019, including unfair attacks on Biden over busing.

Actually I think the point of Trump's remarks about Harris' heritage was his own bigotry. I assumed he would never have donated if he had realized that she was black. That's the only reasonable conclusion I can draw. To the best of my knowledge, Harris has never attempted to hide any of her heritage. She is obviously a person of color. I am certain that different aspects of her heritage do help her with different demographics. Just as being white goes a long way in some places with some people. I think white people just don't notice it as much because white is taken as the standard. So is male. Being female does make me more aware of the fact that the standard for American society is white male. They are not as fussy as they used to be about not-Catholic or not-Jewish but white male is definitely the standard by which the rest of us were measured--but without the benefit of the advantages from cradle to grave that being white and male provide. Yes, this is less true today than it was 20 years ago but it still is true. White men now feel they are being discriminated against when the reality is that they are expected to make room and share the stage on more equal footing with non white, non-female persons.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, Trump's point was that Harris doesn't consider herself black. My point was I didn't remember she was Indian. Like ever.

I think his point was that she shifted which part of her ancestry she emphasized based on which helps her more. Indian in San Francisco, vantablack when running for president.
Now, you are right on one thing. I do not know for a fact what she said when she was running for DA. I was just explaining my understanding of what Trump meant, factually true or not. The second part is undoubtedly factually true though - she dialed up her black identity up to 11 in 2019.

If I knew it, it was buried in my brain somewhere. Of course, a person's identity isn't that high importance wise in my brain.

But somebody's racial identity is of chief importance for you lefties. The whole edifice of "equity" is build upon rewarding some people and punishing others based nothing except for who their ancestors have been. Indians (and other Asians) and whites get dinged when applying for college or med school, while blacks, Latinos and (feather) Indians get points in their favor. I wonder how AAMC would handle it had KH decided to pursue medicine instead ...

We are talking about Trump.

I thought we were talking about Veepstakes.

Trump brought this up to try to get blacks to not connect with Harris by saying she is only 'saying' she is black to get their vote. That is pretty fucked up.

And I was trying to make a point that it was not something Trump came up with. It was already part of discourse in the black community for years.
 American Descendants of Slavery

I noticed that was uncited/unsourced/unquoted, but I'm sure you actually were knee deep in her campaign for District Attorney during W's first term in office.

I do not, as I explained above. But I do remember her going all in on her black identity in 2019, including unfair attacks on Biden over busing.

Actually I think the point of Trump's remarks about Harris' heritage was his own bigotry.

Absolutely not. It was a brazen campaign-wide attempt to disillusion African American support for Harris.

White men now feel they are being discriminated against when the reality is that they are expected to make room and share the stage on more equal footing with non white, non-female persons.

True, but the statement by Trump wasn't aimed at white folk, or let's just say, any benefit among white folk with the statement was a secondary benefit.

 

[Toni]

So veterans are to be honored and worshipped... except if they are Democrats and then they can be slandered. Yes, Sen. John Kerry did already come to mind.

Is it slander though, or is there some truth to it?

Some truth? Is that the bar now?

Gov. Walz was about 40 years old when the Iraq Invasion occurred, started serving 22 years before the invasion. Had he not done his service?

Not only had he done his service (24 years total) but he decided to resign his commission in order to run for office BEFORE his unit was told they should expect to deploy. They actually deployed about a year after Walz resigned.

JD Vance sat in a press office for 6 months in Iraq. Trump hid behind whatever excuse his father could pay for during Viet Nam. I don't actually blame him. A lot of people went to college and grad school because of the student deferment and a lot volunteered for various projects and a few slipped across a border for a while. Viet Nam was a very unpopular war and the returning soldiers were treated abominably although most were drafted at age 18, too young to drink in most places and for most of them, too young to vote. Which, btw, is why the voting age was lowered to 18.

 

[Toni]

No, Trump's point was that Harris doesn't consider herself black. My point was I didn't remember she was Indian. Like ever.

I think his point was that she shifted which part of her ancestry she emphasized based on which helps her more. Indian in San Francisco, vantablack when running for president.
Now, you are right on one thing. I do not know for a fact what she said when she was running for DA. I was just explaining my understanding of what Trump meant, factually true or not. The second part is undoubtedly factually true though - she dialed up her black identity up to 11 in 2019.

If I knew it, it was buried in my brain somewhere. Of course, a person's identity isn't that high importance wise in my brain.

But somebody's racial identity is of chief importance for you lefties. The whole edifice of "equity" is build upon rewarding some people and punishing others based nothing except for who their ancestors have been. Indians (and other Asians) and whites get dinged when applying for college or med school, while blacks, Latinos and (feather) Indians get points in their favor. I wonder how AAMC would handle it had KH decided to pursue medicine instead ...

We are talking about Trump.

I thought we were talking about Veepstakes.

Trump brought this up to try to get blacks to not connect with Harris by saying she is only 'saying' she is black to get their vote. That is pretty fucked up.

And I was trying to make a point that it was not something Trump came up with. It was already part of discourse in the black community for years.
 American Descendants of Slavery

I noticed that was uncited/unsourced/unquoted, but I'm sure you actually were knee deep in her campaign for District Attorney during W's first term in office.

I do not, as I explained above. But I do remember her going all in on her black identity in 2019, including unfair attacks on Biden over busing.

Actually I think the point of Trump's remarks about Harris' heritage was his own bigotry.

Absolutely not. It was a brazen campaign-wide attempt to disillusion African American support for Harris.

White men now feel they are being discriminated against when the reality is that they are expected to make room and share the stage on more equal footing with non white, non-female persons.

True, but the statement by Trump wasn't aimed at white folk, or let's just say, any benefit among white folk with the statement was a secondary benefit.

I think you are giving Trump more credit than he deserves.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Absolutely not. It was a brazen campaign-wide attempt to disillusion African American support for Harris.

White men now feel they are being discriminated against when the reality is that they are expected to make room and share the stage on more equal footing with non white, non-female persons.

True, but the statement by Trump wasn't aimed at white folk, or let's just say, any benefit among white folk with the statement was a secondary benefit.

I think you are giving Trump more credit than he deserves.

Trump might not have come up with it. Kind of reeks of Stephen Miller. There was too much campaign related material on this that same day, both via the right-wing media and at a campaign rally in slides.

They couldn't have possibly turned it around that quick. I feel that it was entirely intended, not off the cuff, and they are still going with it, making me think this was a desperate attempt to silence black voters by having them stay home.

 

[Copernicus]

So veterans are to be honored and worshipped... except if they are Democrats and then they can be slandered. Yes, Sen. John Kerry did already come to mind.

Is it slander though, or is there some truth to it?

Some truth? Is that the bar now?

Gov. Walz was about 40 years old when the Iraq Invasion occurred, started serving 22 years before the invasion. Had he not done his service?

I think it's relevant to note that the invasion of Iraq had started in 2003 and that Walz submitted his retirement papers very early in 2004. It is likely that he retired at that time because of his political disagreement with the invasion itself. He probably did not know that his unit was going to be sent into combat, but he knew of the likelihood. So he did not want to be part of that war. After he retired, he spoke out publicly about his opposition to the war, and it is likely one of the things that motivated him to embark on a political career. This is all speculation on my part, because nobody but he knows what his motives for retiring were.

People suspected at the time that the administration had lied us into that invasion, but the real proof of that only came years later. The casus belli was manufactured by people in the administration. Walz was one of those who opposed the war from its inception.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So veterans are to be honored and worshipped... except if they are Democrats and then they can be slandered. Yes, Sen. John Kerry did already come to mind.

Is it slander though, or is there some truth to it?

Some truth? Is that the bar now?

Gov. Walz was about 40 years old when the Iraq Invasion occurred, started serving 22 years before the invasion. Had he not done his service?

I think it's relevant to note that the invasion of Iraq had started in 2003 and that Walz submitted his retirement papers very early in 2004. It is likely that he retired at that time because of his political disagreement with the invasion itself. He probably did not know that his unit was going to be sent into combat, but he knew of the likelihood. So he did not want to be part of that war. After he retired, he spoke out publicly about his opposition to the war, and it is likely one of the things that motivated him to embark on a political career. This is all speculation on my part, because nobody but he knows what his motives for retiring were.

People suspected at the time that the administration had lied us into that invasion, but the real proof of that only came years later.

Years later? Iraq and WMDs!!! But in the inspections prior to invading, nothing was being found. There was no evidence Iraq had any WMDs. Post invasion it was pretty clear, there were no WMDs.

 

[Copernicus]

Not only had he done his service (24 years total) but he decided to resign his commission in order to run for office BEFORE his unit was told they should expect to deploy. They actually deployed about a year after Walz resigned.

Some technical quibbles, although I agree very much with your overall post. Walsh was not a commissioned officer, and retirement from service is different from resigning a commission. Also, the mobilization of his unit was announced in July--about two months after his actual retirement in May. He had submitted his papers in February, and the fact that the unit could be mobilized and deployed could have been a factor in his retirement at that point in time. I don't know what his motives were for that timing, but I know that he publicly opposed the war only after his retirement.

JD Vance sat in a press office for 6 months in Iraq. Trump hid behind whatever excuse his father could pay for during Viet Nam. I don't actually blame him. A lot of people went to college and grad school because of the student deferment and a lot volunteered for various projects and a few slipped across a border for a while. Viet Nam was a very unpopular war and the returning soldiers were treated abominably although most were drafted at age 18, too young to drink in most places and for most of them, too young to vote. Which, btw, is why the voting age was lowered to 18.

I totally agree with what you say here, having myself been a draft counselor and an applicant for conscientious objection status at the time. Ultimately, the status was granted, but that's a different story. I was never drafted into civilian service because, like Trump, he received a high lottery number. Trump was 1-Y, and probably under false pretenses--a faked claim that his "bone spurs" disqualified him for combat. Biden was also 1-Y, because he really had asthma. What 1-Y meant was that both men could be drafted in a "national emergency", but the Vietnam War did not officially qualify as such. Trump later parlayed his dubious bone spur problem into a IV-F classification, which meant that he would not be drafted under any circumstances. One suspects that his father's powerful political connections may have had something to do with that. Fred Trump Sr. hated military service and even disowned one son, Fred Trump Jr., for joining the Air Force.

 

[Copernicus]

So veterans are to be honored and worshipped... except if they are Democrats and then they can be slandered. Yes, Sen. John Kerry did already come to mind.

Is it slander though, or is there some truth to it?

Some truth? Is that the bar now?

Gov. Walz was about 40 years old when the Iraq Invasion occurred, started serving 22 years before the invasion. Had he not done his service?

I think it's relevant to note that the invasion of Iraq had started in 2003 and that Walz submitted his retirement papers very early in 2004. It is likely that he retired at that time because of his political disagreement with the invasion itself. He probably did not know that his unit was going to be sent into combat, but he knew of the likelihood. So he did not want to be part of that war. After he retired, he spoke out publicly about his opposition to the war, and it is likely one of the things that motivated him to embark on a political career. This is all speculation on my part, because nobody but he knows what his motives for retiring were.

People suspected at the time that the administration had lied us into that invasion, but the real proof of that only came years later.

Years later? Iraq and WMDs!!! But in the inspections prior to invading, nothing was being found. There was no evidence Iraq had any WMDs. Post invasion it was pretty clear, there were no WMDs.

I'm not going to quibble. Those who opposed the war in Congress were right to do so. The evidence for WMDs was very shaky, and it came as no surprise to many of us that the claimed evidence was bogus. However, the proof really was not admitted until after Bush left office, IIRC.

 

[lpetrich]

That Bulwark article also links to
Why Kamala Harris chose Tim Walz - POLITICO - August 6 - "The vice president and Minnesota governor didn’t know each other but quickly clicked."

Kamala Harris loved Tim Walz’s governing record in Minnesota. His biography and record of winning tough races resonated with her. And most of all, she just really liked him.

After noting how quickly the two got along with each other,

But several other factors were important to Harris as well, according to one of the people. Harris appreciated Walz’s two terms as governor because he had accomplishments in Minnesota that Harris wants to replicate in her presidency — access to reproductive health, paid leave, child tax credits and gun safety.

Harris was also taken with Walz’s biography — a former high school teacher, a football coach and a veteran who flipped a Republican-leaning district in 2006 — which she believes will play well in all three of the Blue Wall states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, including his win as a House member in a Republican district.

A good rural-state progressive.

Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, another finalist, avoided the green-room circuit and instead touted Harris and his own record at a series of events throughout the state. A pro-Harris event in Philadelphia turned into a Shapiro-for-VP party.

His style was seen by at least some in Harris’ world as showboating. One senior Democrat in touch with Harris’ team called it “counterproductive.”

And there was a sense within Shapiro’s team that, unlike Walz, his interview with Harris did not go as well as it could have. There was “not a great feeling” coming out of it, according to a person in touch with his advisers.

KH's VP-vetting team started out with as many as 12 possibilities, then went down to 9 candidates who were asked to submit material to the team, like financial disclosures and campaign ads.

The team then met with 6 of the candidates over Zoom: Walz, Shapiro, KY Gov Andy Beshear, AZ Sen Mark Kelly, Tpt Sec'y Pete Buttigieg, and IL Gov JB Pritzker.

Then they got it down to 3: Walz, Shapiro, and Kelly. Last Saturday afternoon, all three were invited to the Vice President's Naval Observatory residence for "chemistry test" meetings with KH - how well they might get along with her.

Harris and her staff wanted to take as much time as possible, considering the stakes of the decision and the truncated process she had to employ. Harris told staff on Sunday that she wanted to sleep on it, a person involved in the vetting told POLITICO, adding that Harris made the decision yesterday and told a small set of staff Monday evening.

Nevertheless, her staff tried to be well-prepared. "Beginning Sunday, staff prepared videos, messaging memos, stump speeches and website graphics for all three men."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Years later? Iraq and WMDs!!! But in the inspections prior to invading, nothing was being found. There was no evidence Iraq had any WMDs. Post invasion it was pretty clear, there were no WMDs.

I'm not going to quibble. Those who opposed the war in Congress were right to do so. The evidence for WMDs was very shaky, and it came as no surprise to many of us that the claimed evidence was bogus. However, the proof really was not admitted until after Bush left office, IIRC.

2006, the W Admin, much to the chagrin of right-wing media, admitted the intel was wrong.

Woodward's Plan of Attack published in 2004 made it pretty clear that the W Admin knew the data was near non-existent. From my memory, there was a meeting that was to go over the evidence on WMDs in Iraq, and when the presentation was over, the big wigs were concerned with how little meat there was to the claim.