Poll Dem VP Pic: your choice?

[laughing dog]

It is sophomoric, not accurate and very funny.

It is basically a lie and should be beneath a vice presidential candidate.

Walz alluded to a rumor about Vance - one that is neither confirmed or denied. So on what basis do call it “basically a lie”?
[

 

[Derec]

Thank you for the correction. It does make a difference, in my mind, that he didn’t write it. That would make me unwilling to repeat it, personally.

And yet Walz repeated it. Makes him very petty.

It also illustrates something I heard on the radio. Somebody referred to Harris-Walz as being all about "vibes" and "memes". And I think that's spot on. He only rose to the top over his "weird" quips. And now making fun of couches. Does not exactly inspire confidence.

The facts for Derec’s edification remain salient, though. This kind of story does not create broad harm to men by the retelling, even when it’s false, as the false bit about Harris does to women.

Why? Other than sexist double standards so common in actually existing feminism.

 

[Derec]

Walz alluded to a rumor about Vance - one that is neither confirmed or denied. So on what basis do call it “basically a lie”?

The claim was that the story was in Hillbilly Elegy. No such story is in there. So it's a lie.

 

[Derec]

I picked Sanders as a dark horse VP pick. Vance is basically Sanders

You mean "Walz is basically Sanders" (of the Midwest)?

with a penis, so I’m awarding myself half a point.

Wait? What happened to Bernie's Schlagbaum?

 

[aupmanyav]

WTAF???

Yeah. I suppose if an Indian citizen has an immigrant status and is applying for citizenship of another country, then he/she is no more an Indian citizen. Being Indian citizen was Shayamala's her previous status.

 

[Derec]

No, Trump's point was that Harris doesn't consider herself black. My point was I didn't remember she was Indian. Like ever.

I think his point was that she shifted which part of her ancestry she emphasized based on which helps her more. Indian in San Francisco, vantablack when running for president.
Now, you are right on one thing. I do not know for a fact what she said when she was running for DA. I was just explaining my understanding of what Trump meant, factually true or not. The second part is undoubtedly factually true though - she dialed up her black identity up to 11 in 2019.

If I knew it, it was buried in my brain somewhere. Of course, a person's identity isn't that high importance wise in my brain.

But somebody's racial identity is of chief importance for you lefties. The whole edifice of "equity" is build upon rewarding some people and punishing others based nothing except for who their ancestors have been. Indians (and other Asians) and whites get dinged when applying for college or med school, while blacks, Latinos and (feather) Indians get points in their favor. I wonder how AAMC would handle it had KH decided to pursue medicine instead ...

We are talking about Trump.

I thought we were talking about Veepstakes.

Trump brought this up to try to get blacks to not connect with Harris by saying she is only 'saying' she is black to get their vote. That is pretty fucked up.

And I was trying to make a point that it was not something Trump came up with. It was already part of discourse in the black community for years.
 American Descendants of Slavery

I noticed that was uncited/unsourced/unquoted, but I'm sure you actually were knee deep in her campaign for District Attorney during W's first term in office.

I do not, as I explained above. But I do remember her going all in on her black identity in 2019, including unfair attacks on Biden over busing.

 

[Derec]

I realize that being normalized as prey is not something that some men think about the consequences of, but it is a huge issue in our society and people of compassion and wisdom WILL speak out against it.

I disagree with your whole premise here, that a person engaging in a sexual relationship for tangible benefits is "prey". She was no victim there.
Or do you think only women doing that are "prey", which would be a double standard?
I categorically reject that entire line of thinking. Adults have agency over and responsibility for their choices and their actions, men and women alike.

Do you think a 29 year old man engaging in a sexual relationship with a 60 year old woman for political benefit is "prey"? Do you think it's "misandrist" to truthfully mention such a relationship?

On the other hand, do you think making up stories about a woman's masturbatory practices is ok? Or only about a man's?

 

[Derec]

One is a joke at someone's expense. The other is an attack to belittle the target. I think the word "repeatedly" is accurate, though obsessively wouldn't be inaccurate, as Derec has gone as far as calling Harris 'Heels up' on numerous occasions.

Only on a few occasions, and usually to point out double standards in how different attacks are treated here. Including this case, where a made up story being used by Walz to attack Vance is applauded here, while a true story about Harris is considered "misogyny".

The interesting this is that Derec is allegedly "liberal" about sex, but that only seems to be as far as his needs are concerned. When it comes to a woman and sex, it is alright to Puritanize it and attack woman with it.

I think people should be free to engage in sex. I think it's fine to trade sex for money, as long as it is your money.
I do not think it's right to exchange sex for grades, promotions, money that is not yours or placement on political boards. That sounds like corruption. In fact, sex is secondary here. If Brown had put her on these boards because she bribed him with cash instead of sex, that'd be as wrong. That does not mean that I am not liberal about money when my needs are concerned.

 

[Derec]

As far as the "Harris slept her way to the top" thing, that attack falls apart for a couple reasons.

Note that it is those who are dismissing this who are adding the "to the top" part.

Yes, she dated Willie Brown, which can be said by a lot of women. He did give her a low level job in city government, but then what? She went onto become a successful prosecutor, Attorney General, Senator, and Vice President. She may have gotten her foot in the door due to her relationship with Brown, but after that everything was on her own merits.

Getting your foot in the door is a big deal in itself. Yes, she does have merits, I am not denying it, but her relationship with Browm definitely helped her career along. I do not think it is "misogynist" to point that out. Had Vance "gotten his foot in the door" by sleeping with a woman twice his age, I do not think it would be misandrist to point that out.

What else did Ivanka do in her time in government that she got by virtue of nepotism?

This is classic whataboutism. We can talk about things Kamala Harris did wrong without the Ilk chiming in "but Trump is worse". Of course Trump is worse! That does not mean that KH should be beyond criticsm.

If she were a man who'd been a top prosecutor, AG, Senator, and VP, she'd be hailed as eminently qualified to be President.

And she was. In early 2019 she was thought of as one of the favorites, if not the favorite, to win the nomination. But she made some poor judgments in her campaign, spent too much money too fast, and her run crashed and burned. But at one point her stock was high, in large part because of her impressive resume.

Where have we heard this stuff before? Hillary Rodham Clinton. She was accused of riding her husband's coat-tails,

And she no doubt did.

though if you look at the facts, she was arguably the smarter and better lawyer,

That may be so. I do not know one way or the other (any evidence for that claim?) But lawyers are a dime a dozen. Being a good lawyer by itself would not get her into the White House, or even the Senate. She never had Bill's charisma and without her being the First Lady, she would not have been even a US Senator, much less Dems' nominee for President.

and by the time she ran for the White House, she was arguably the most qualified candidate of any race or gender. Ever. Eminently well-educated, experienced attorney, Senator, Secretary of State, and one of the most consequential First Ladies in history, with a deep knowlege of the inner workings of the White House.

We already went over this many times. It's bullshit. Being married to a president is not a qualification. Period.

And here we are again, 12 years later. "She's shrill. I don't like her laugh. She slept her way to the top. She's not qualified. Women are too emotional.

KH is qualified. Unlike Hillary, she is not shrill, but she does not have the best of laughs.
What you fail to grasp is that these types of attacks are levied against all kinds of candidates. How they sound. What they look like. How they dress. All these things are there for men as well. Likeability in particular is very important.

Is she going to be ready when that 3am phone call comes in?"

That one was Hillary's attack on Obama.

 

[Derec]

. Plus, as Trump gets crazier by the day, more people who were not sure who they would vote for, seem to be turning away from him.

I think this is very important. It is very possible that Trump campaign falls apart and he loses bigly. Then it really makes no difference who is in the #2 slot. He has a floor of committed MAGAs, but they are not nearly enough to carry enough EVs.

However, if it stays close, then the choice may prove crucial, one way or another. Counterfactuals can only be guessed at, so win or lose we have no way of knowing if things would have turned out differently with Shapiro riding shotgun.

And when Trump said he believes that Biden is going to claim to be the nominee during the Democratic convention and push Harris out of the way, I had to wonder why his supporters didn't see his insanity or early signs of dementia.

Silly Trump. The only reason we are here now is that Biden is in no condition to push anybody out of the way.

 

[Derec]

So veterans are to be honored and worshipped... except if they are Democrats and then they can be slandered. Yes, Sen. John Kerry did already come to mind.

Is it slander though, or is there some truth to it?

 

[Derec]

You have established that they had a relationship. You have not established that the purpose was to get on some state boards.

It is also established that he did place her on those state boards. That she entered the sexual relationship for that purpose cannot be determined, since we cannot read minds. We only have the observables.

And even if you are right that's simply a matter of getting her foot in the door, there's no way it got her where she is now.

And that can mean a lot for the course of somebody's career, especially in politics where positions are few and pretenders many.

I hold a low opinion of those who go hunting for a young partner. However, I also know that sometimes proximity turns into more. And that can happen in age gap situations.

When the age gap is so extreme as this, it does raise suspicions.
Now, she was 30, and certainly old enough not to be anybody's "prey", so "hunting" is not the right word.
No, she entered this relationship with intent and agency, but I doubt she entered it out of genuine attraction or romantic interest.
I also think these outraged "white knight" defenses of Harris are disingenuous.
If it were Vance who dated a 60 year old when he was 30, and she helped his political career along, these same people would not shut up about it. Look at how much hay they have made out of a totally made up story.

 

[Derec]

Also, I'm pretty sure that thing about telling a cop he was deaf when he was stopped for speeding was probably his excuse for not pulling over the very moment the cop turned on his siren - "I didn't hear you at first because I'm partially deaf" - not as the reason he was going so fast.

Is he also blind? Cop cars also have pretty bright lights.
And every time I got pulled over (not for DUI), the cops only turned on the lights. Sirens get turned on only when the lights are ignored and the car does not pull over in a reasonable time.

Btw, our future vice president's mug shot:

He had a little George Costanza thing going on ...

 

[Arctish]

Also, I'm pretty sure that thing about telling a cop he was deaf when he was stopped for speeding was probably his excuse for not pulling over the very moment the cop turned on his siren - "I didn't hear you at first because I'm partially deaf" - not as the reason he was going so fast.

Is he also blind? Cop cars also have pretty bright lights.
And every time I got pulled over (not for DUI), the cops only turned on the lights. Sirens get turned on only when the lights are ignored and the car does not pull over in a reasonable time.

Bullshit.

Cops turn the sirens on when they want to be noticed. People who just realized there is a cop car behind them with its lights on and giving a brief blast of the siren might hesitate to pull over in the hope the cop is after someone else, or because they are looking for a safe place to stop. It's not an instantaneous thing in any of the 5 states where I lived after I got my driver's license.

Btw, our future vice president's mug shot:

He had a little George Costanza thing going on ...

At least he looks more contrite than this guy:



More sane, too.

 

[bilby]

WTAF???

Yeah. I suppose if an Indian citizen has an immigrant status and is applying for citizenship of another country, then he/she is no more an Indian citizen. Being Indian citizen was Shayamala's her previous status.

You are out of date.

Since 2005, Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI) has been available to former Indian Citizens who migrated to other nations (excluding Pakistan and Bangladesh), as long as their new country of citizenship permits dual citizenship.

OCI entails the same rights as full citizenship, with the exception of ineligibility to vote for, or be elected to, the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, or to constitutional posts such as President, Vice-President, or Judge of the Supreme Court, High Court or lower courts; And ineligibilty to purchase agricultural lands in India.

OCI holders may enter India without limitation, and can re-apply for full citizenship if they reside in india for one year out of any five year period.

 

[aupmanyav]

That is since 2005. I do not think Shyamala Gopalan held and OCI card, She died in 2009.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You haven't seen her ads apparently. Harris is running on a history of being a Prosecutor... but being fair. She'll hit notably on the Law and Order, but softening the edges in order to get the suburban vote.

Yes, I was a bit surprised at her hitting the prosecutor theme hard in her ads. She ran away from that part of her biography in 2019.

I'd say Walz provides the Midwestern folk part to a West Coast main candidate.

He does appear folksy, but how long will the infatuation with his schtick last?

Nationally, to be seen. Locally, it should likely stick.

The "weird" line reminds me of this classic Simpsons scene.

The masses are still lapping it up, but it is still a while until November.

You don't keep repeating the same thing over and over and over... well, maybe if you are Trump, but the "weird" thing is about setting a tone. You expand from it down the road.

You never know what will catch or what will sting. The whole sofa thing is surreal. "Weird" at least has a nice passive aggressive feel that the GOP is not used to having to defend against.

Gov. Whitmer would have been better as I don't think the DEI pick of a white male was necessary.

Will you give it a rest with that? KH never said she would only consider white men, and besides, DEI schemes discriminate against white men, not the other way around.

Indeed, white men demand at least one white male on a ticket.

I tried looking and haven't found anything. What did she say regarding losing out in 2019 due to race and gender?

I found this:
Sen. Kamala Harris questions whether America would elect a woman of color as president

Thanks!

 

[pood]

Will you give it a rest with that? KH never said she would only consider white men, and besides, DEI schemes discriminate against white men, not the other way around.

As usual, you have it exactly bassackwards. Apparently you are uneducable on the topic.

DEi “schemes,” as you put it, don’t discriminate against white men. They end discrimination against those who are not straight, white, cisgendered men. Try to get your facts straight.

 

[pood]

Walz alluded to a rumor about Vance - one that is neither confirmed or denied. So on what basis do call it “basically a lie”?

The claim was that the story was in Hillbilly Elegy. No such story is in there. So it's a lie.

Oh, dear. A Trump partisan attacking a “lie.” Unfortunately my local irony meter store is fresh out of irony meters.

 

[Elixir]

DEI schemes discriminate against white men, not the other way around.

Well, the “D” part does. But that’s what happens when some group or color is a predominant majority; diversification lessens their share and increasingly, threatens their majority status. So they react. As the demographic landscape gets browner, it is the imperative of that majority to ensure a tilted playing field to keep themselves at a disproportionate level of power and wealth.

Meanwhile the status quo of wealthy white supremacy, starting with the Country’s founders and framers, was equity and inclusion conferred upon all the wealthy white people in all the colonies/States, and equal opportunity was supposed to be offered to the rest, immigrants included, (though they often opted to or were forced to live in their language-specific quarters) regardless of COO. As long as their skin wasn’t too dark.