Poll Dem VP Pic: your choice?

[pood]

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I know we’re not s’posed to post stuff without comment, but what’s left to say?
Shady Vance is a Trumpsucking slimeball?
Everybody already knew that.

This story is going viral in the right wing echo chamber, so it requires more background detail for a better understanding. See:

Vance reopens line of attack into Walz’s military record as two veterans now vie to be vice president​

The zombie scandal itself was dug up and reanimated from Minnesota Republicans who had used it to try a kind of swiftboating attack on Walz. Apparently, Walz was succeeded by an officer who replaced him and wanted to help the Republicans try to stink up Walz's 24-year service record. So the guy posted a letter to Facebook, making Minnesota Republicans whoop with joy. Walz was elected anyway, because nobody but diehard Republicans cared.

The relevant facts are that Walz was appointed to Command Sergeant Major in the fall of 2004, but he hadn't finished all of his coursework to retire at that rank when he decided to retire from service. Walz submitted his papers to retire in February 2005. Retirement was approved for a May retirement, before his unit was mobilized for deployment to Iraq. The mobilization order was announced in July of 2005, two months after he had officially retired. From the above article:

The criticisms of his military record from within the state during his gubernatorial campaigns also focused on his rank when he retired.

Walz reached the rank of command master sergeant, but he officially retired as a master sergeant— one rank below command sergeant major — because “he did not complete additional coursework at the US Army Sergeants Major Academy,” according to the Guard.

Joseph Eustice, a 32-year veteran who led the same battalion as Walz, told the Star Tribune in 2022 that Walz did nothing wrong when he left the Guard.

”He was a great soldier,” Eustice said. “When he chose to leave, he had every right to leave.”

All this stuff coming from the people supporting Mr. Bone Spurs, who called veterans who fought in wars “losers” and notoriously said he didn’t want a disabled vet at one of his events because it was a “bad look” for him.

Have right-wingers any honor, decency, or even basic intelligence at all?

 

[Shadowy Man]

It’s not like his bone spurs were acting up.

 

[bilby]

It's Sofa King frustrating.

Particularly given that her opponent is, well...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I confess I had my doubts about Walz but not anymore:

Because he is resorting to some sophomoric quips?

Also it is funny how the couch claims are fair game, but pointing out Kami slept with a man twice her age to get on some state boards is "misogyny".

You have established that they had a relationship. You have not established that the purpose was to get on some state boards. And even if you are right that's simply a matter of getting her foot in the door, there's no way it got her where she is now.

I hold a low opinion of those who go hunting for a young partner. However, I also know that sometimes proximity turns into more. And that can happen in age gap situations.

 

[TomC]

I hold a low opinion of those who go hunting for a young partner.

Why?
A 30ish Harris was hardly some naif.

Sometimes people go hunting for young partners because older ones avoid them or expect equality and stuff.
I'm absolutely certain that they were both extremely competent adults who had a lot in common, no surprise that they hooked up.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

As I understand, Shyamala Gopalan, Kamla's mother was an Indian immigrant. I do not know if she had received American citizenship.
Therefore, Kamala's mother was not an Indian.

WTAF???

 

[Elixir]

So veterans are to be honored and worshipped

Unless they get captured, killed or maimed. Then they're suckers and losers.

Walz didn't seem to hurt the ticket in the betting market.
Predictit just now:

View attachment 47110

The last time I looked was before Biden dropped out and it looked close, but Trump was favored.

 

[Derec]

You haven't seen her ads apparently. Harris is running on a history of being a Prosecutor... but being fair. She'll hit notably on the Law and Order, but softening the edges in order to get the suburban vote.

Yes, I was a bit surprised at her hitting the prosecutor theme hard in her ads. She ran away from that part of her biography in 2019.

I'd say Walz provides the Midwestern folk part to a West Coast main candidate.

He does appear folksy, but how long will the infatuation with his schtick last?
The "weird" line reminds me of this classic Simpsons scene.

The masses are still lapping it up, but it is still a while until November.

Gov. Whitmer would have been better as I don't think the DEI pick of a white male was necessary.

Will you give it a rest with that? KH never said she would only consider white men, and besides, DEI schemes discriminate against white men, not the other way around.

But if Whitmer didn't want it, so be it. VPs do have a harder time of getting to the White House.

They do have an advantage compared to other contenders from their party.

I tried looking and haven't found anything. What did she say regarding losing out in 2019 due to race and gender?

I found this:
Sen. Kamala Harris questions whether America would elect a woman of color as president

 

[Derec]

Fuck, you are obsessed. Most of America doesn't care about the Palestinians or those protesting in support of them.

Quite the contrary. I think Kamala chose Walz to large extent because the "Uncommitteds" (i.e. pro-Hamas Muslims and Arabs) in Michigan would not abide a pro-Israel Jew.

Democrats are looking to appease actual demographics that make a difference. That'd be the suburbs and determine who wins states and elections.

Then moving to the center for the general election would have been a smarter move. That would have suggested Shapiro, not Walz, who is the favorite of the Squad.

Progressives and Working-Class Advocates Push Tim Walz for VP

This is a strategic geographic decision of selecting a locally popular midwestern Governor to help tie in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

Minnesota is not really in play (if it were, Dems would be in deep shit). So it's a bit strange (not to say "weird") to pick a governor of Minnesota to shore up three different states rather than a governor from one of those states. Shapiro is also a popular sitting governor.
For example, he cut through red tape to rebuild a I95 bridge quickly.

How Pennsylvania’s Governor Turned A Collapsed Bridge Into A Political Win

Shapiro is also considerably younger, and even beyond that, Walz looks older than his chronological age. More like a grandpa than a running mate.

I think Shapiro would have been a good selection, though my mind has been thinking of nothing but the Midwest regarding the VP nominee. Solidifying the North Wall is priority #1.

Pennsylvania is a good geographic balance to California. And Minnesota may be midwestern on the map, but its politics have been shifting to the left recently; ideologically it has become less of a contrast to California. So I do not know that a pick from MN would work that well to shore up the Great Firewall.

 

[Derec]

What nonsense are you talking about?

That picking a white man for running mate is DEI.
Compare that with Biden declaring that he would only consider black women for SCOTUS or a woman for running mate (later de facto also restricted to only black women). Newsom likewise vowed to not consider anybody except black women for US Senate.
To my knowledge, Kami never said that she would only consider white men for running mate.

But so far, choosing him looks like political brilliance on Team Harris' part.

It's appeasing "progressives". It does nothing to shore up the center in the long run.

He also only rose up in prominence because of his "weird" quip. Before that, he was nowhere in the Veepstakes - he wasn't even an option in the poll in this thread.
A funny catchphrase (or rather word) is not a solid basis for the bottom of a ticket.

 

[Arctish]

You haven't seen her ads apparently. Harris is running on a history of being a Prosecutor... but being fair. She'll hit notably on the Law and Order, but softening the edges in order to get the suburban vote.

Yes, I was a bit surprised at her hitting the prosecutor theme hard in her ads. She ran away from that part of her biography in 2019.

When did you read her biography?

 

[Derec]

She had an identity crisis, trying to find the right positions. Didn't work well in the end in 2019.

It's a bad look to enter a presidential race while in an identity crisis.

PA is sufficiently fracked. With fracking crashing natural gas prices, that in itself likely led to fracking slowing down.

Slowing down due to supply and demand is very different than banning, as Kamala Harris wanted to do in 2019 and something that fauxgressives are still clamoring for.

In reality, fracking accounts for ⅔ of natural gas and ½ of crude oil production in the US, according to API. The energy landscape would look very different had fracking been banned. US would not be the top oil producer. More coal would be burned for electricity production and natural gas prices for consumers would be higher. And we would not have been able to export LNG to Europe when Russia invaded Ukraine, complicating imports of Russian gas by Europe.

Yes, please, we need more pettiness in politics.

Like it or not, such things matter. And not only for female candidates either. US system is very focused on personalities in a way parliamentary systems, esp. those that rely on proportional representation are not.

Not relevant. What is relevant is he is a Midwestern guy.

I don't think so. I think his politics will be very relevant as well, not just geography.

Yes. Yes we have. Granted, DEI became Meme fodder,

Yes, the whole Dem party is all about memes now. "Weird" became memified too.

after the misogynists

Pointing out that Biden restricted eligibility to be his running mate to women only is not "misogynistic".

No, I don't think that hurt anything. Shapiro is PA. PA is the NE. A lot of America feels more comfy with a Midwestern American. Worked for Monda....

Exactly.

The wall is crucial. And I think the Midwest appeal is to help with WI and MI, and in proxy a part of PA. Walz plays more in PA than Shapiro would have in WI.

I don't know that he will. But we will not be able to run an experiment, one trial with Shapiro and one with Walz. So it will be fundamentally unknowable whether Shapiro or Walz would have led to better results in these states.

Okay, so we've established that a VP becomes President once a generation. That isn't too often.

Presidential elections are only once every four years, and usually the incumbent runs for reelection. There aren't that many opportunities in a generation.
Veeps enjoy an advantage over other people in their party. That does not mean they are guaranteed a win.

Americans are stupid like that. Granted, Gore and Clinton did win the popular votes for the 8 to 12 year period election.

By "Clinton", do you mean Hillary?
Gore did not exactly win the popular vote - he did better than W, but still fell short of 50%. Neither did Hillary.

Also, since we do not use popular vote in our elections, you can't really draw conclusions from the numbers. If US elections were by popular vote, campaigns would be run very differently. Campaign trips, GOTV efforts and spending would not focus on the handful of battleground states, but on population centers (but would overall be more widely spread out than is the case now). So the vote totals would be very different too. Who knows who would have won in 2000 or 2016 had we had popular vote.

 

[Derec]

Well Minnesota Somali immigrants and other Muslims are not relegated to interment camps so yea: Walz is an islamofascist.

Again, I never said that he was, but by picking him instead of Shapiro KH was appeasing the islamofascists in places like Dearbornistan and Hamtramckabad. You know, the ones yelling "Death to America" and calling Biden "Genocide Joe".

Racism, antisemitism and Islamophobia are all alive in Minnesota. Don’t be fooled by the blue.

Can you give some examples?
It seems the contrary is the case - special privileges for Muslims. Like being allowed to blare their "call to prayer" at high volumes and as early as 3:30AM.
Minneapolis mayor signs change to noise ordinance allowing amplified call to prayer 5 times a day

 

[Derec]

Everybody has ancestral lines leading to the universal common ancestor (UCA).

The ultimate pedigree collapse.

 

[Derec]

It is sophomoric, not accurate and very funny.

It is basically a lie and should be beneath a vice presidential candidate.

But it’s not misogynist or slut shaming.

Why is saying true things about Kamala "misogynist"?
And it is not "slut shaming" either - it's about the quid-pro-quo or at the very least the appearance of a quid-pro-quo.

Wasn’t understand which you find objectionable.

Huh?

 

[Derec]

You have never demonstrated that her relatively brief relationship with Willie Brown had anything to do with her overall career arc,

I never claimed it did. It most definitely had a lot to do with her being appointed to state boards in the early stages of her political career though, and this is well documented.

and your repeated slur against a relationship between a younger woman and an older man is disgusting.

It's not a slur, it's a fact.

What is disgusting to me is that you find people mentioning KH's sexual relationship with twice-her age WB "disgusting", but at the same time think that there is nothing wrong with a vice presidential candidate outright lying about sexual proclivities of his opponent.

And what does your Orange Turd Hero do but make personal attacks against everyone, even members of his own party?

He is not my "hero", buddy. Just because I dislike Trump does not mean I have to like everything KH and TW do or did.

The double standards you employ are transparent and frankly revolting.

The double standards are on your side.
True statements about a female Democrat - unacceptable.
False statements about a male Republican - commended.

 

[Derec]

Do you keep saying "Kami" because it sounds like "Commie"? Because if so, that's pretty sophomoric.

Didn't even think about that. No, I used it as a regular diminutive.
She is certainly not a commie, but she did foolishly take up some stupid left-wing positions in the 2020 cycle.

 

[Derec]

Speaking of old/young relationships, are you fine with Trump repeatedly indicating that he’d like to fuck his own daughter?

No. And I do not need some washed up history teacher to tell me that that is very weird.

 

[Derec]

but pointing out Kami slept with a man twice her age to get on some state boards is "misogyny".

Yes, it is.

Why? Is any statement, no matter how true, considered "misogyny" by the Ilk if it is unflattering to a woman? Or at least to a Democratic woman?

And a false statement about a man is considered a-ok, especially against a Republican man. Typical Ilkish double standards.

 

[Derec]

You really don’t get the difference at all, do you?

Between a true fact about KH and a lie about JDV? Yes, I do see a difference.

You have no idea in this world why she dated Brown.

Not 100% certainty, but the likely reason is pretty obvious - he could help her career along.

You do know about Vance and couch because he wrote about it his ownself in a book that he published and made money on.

No, he did not. That was made up. And it is disgusting that Walz is perpetuating this lie.

Men don’t face backlash against safety or career for masturbating

Neither do women. In fact, female use of toys is far more socially acceptable than male use of toys.

Women do face it for being called easy.

Had Vance at ~30 slept with a woman twice his age in order to get appointed to political positions, it would also be fair game to point it out, Why is it "misogynist" or out of bounds to point it out if it's a woman?

You are indeed accusing Harris of being unqualified for dating a powerful man.

Since I never said she was unqualified, it is a lie that I am accusing her of being unqualified for this reason.
I think she has shown very poor judgment on several occasions, and I think her relationship with "Slick" Willie Brown was an early example of this.

I fell bad for you that you don’t get this, Derec. People have tried to help by answering your questions candidly and completely. But you just come back with the same complaint and the same insult and then wonder why you get the same answer.

It's a double standard. Nothing bad should ever be said about anything a Democratic woman did. Men are fair game. So are Republican women. But god forbid somebody make a negative comment about questionable things KH did in her past.

The answer is right there above in black and white - again - if you really want to know what the differences are.

Just because we disagree does not make me a misogynist.
It does make you wrong for still claiming JDV wrote something he did not write though. I will not call you a "misandrist" for repeatedly smearing him though.