Democrats 2020

[ruby sparks]

That the Democratic Party is horrifically racist is not a secret. They are just less racist than the Republicans, not setting some sort of ideal to aspire to.

I did not realise their racism and rightism could be described in similar terms, and it would not surprise me if it could be.

Though, for use of the claim 'horrifically racist', I'd like some elaboration.

 

[Elixir]

That the Democratic Party is horrifically racist is not a secret. They are just less racist than the Republicans, not setting some sort of ideal to aspire to.

I did not realise their racism and rightism could be described in similar terms, and it would not surprise me if it could be.

Though, for use of the claim 'horrifically racist', I'd like some elaboration.

Sheesh. It's hard to get conservatives to even give a nod to the existence of racism, let along define it. Now you're asking for metrics whereby to measure its "horrificness"?

 

[ruby sparks]

That the Democratic Party is horrifically racist is not a secret. They are just less racist than the Republicans, not setting some sort of ideal to aspire to.

I did not realise their racism and rightism could be described in similar terms, and it would not surprise me if it could be.

Though, for use of the claim 'horrifically racist', I'd like some elaboration.

Sheesh. It's hard to get conservatives to even give a nod to the existence of racism, let along define it. Now you're asking for metrics whereby to measure its "horrificness"?

Sorry I was asking about the Democrats. He used the words 'horrifically racist' for them.

 

[southernhybrid]

The whole "she is a person of color" excuse is a cop out that I dearly hope Yang doesn't fall into when he fails to become the nominee, and I hope Warren doesn't hide behind the excuse of her gender. I don't think either will. I also doubt Booker will.

I agree that KH lost partly because she was overhyped, but mostly because she was weak on substance. She had little uniquely hers in way of policy positions, and Tulsi's drawing attention to KH's record as a prosecutor also didn't help.

Plus her status as a "person of color" should have helped her, not hurt her, because this is the Democratic primary and not the general election. If it hurt her in the primary, that says a lot about Democrats, not the general public.

That the Democratic Party is horrifically racist is not a secret. They are just less racist than the Republicans, not setting some sort of ideal to aspire to.

I disagree with you on that. Certainly there are Democrats who are racists, but horrifically racist? Based on exactly what? I don't think that Harris didn't get a lot of support had a thing to do with her ethnic background. She just wasn't an attractive candidate. I only knew two people who liked her and they were white. My black friends, especially my political junkie close friend who I discuss politics with three times a week, told me over and over again that she finds Harris to be phony. And, a lot of black voters didn't like some of the things she did as AOG of California. Finally, if the rumors were true about her complain falling apart, being disorganized with staff members rushing to the door, perhaps she doesn't have the type of leadership qualities that are needed to be an effective president.

I supported Booker early on. I've liked him for a long time, and thought he might be a good candidate, having both experience in the Senate as well as leadership experience as mayor of Newark. I grew up near Newark. Booker did some positive things for the city. But, again, none of my black friends liked him in the least. One did for a little while but lost interest in him. I'm not sure who is supporters are now.

I've discussed this with my close friend. She and I both feel it's insulting to expect a voter for support a candidate because they are the same gender or race as yourself. I don't agree with those who are claiming that Harris didn't gain a lot of support because of her race. And, imo, it's more of a gender thing. Women in politics have a much larger battle to fight compared to men in politics. But horrific racism? Look at the Republican administration. It's almost all older white men. Look at Obama's administration. It was full of ethnic and gender diversity. No group will ever be perfect, but if if one is intellectually honest, there is no comparison to the racism in the Republican Party compared to that in the Democratic Party.

I think one problem with the county as a whole is that we are so accustomed to having white male presidents, with the exception of Obama, who really made Republicans stark raving mad due to their racism, it's become a habit to elect white males as president. Hopefully that will change before too long.

I also really disagree that Obama was a moderate. I read his book. He was a liberal at heart, but when he was elected president, he knew he had to represent the entire country and not just his base. Additionally, he was obstructed constantly by the Republicans for the last six years of his presidency. What the fuck was the man supposed to do? Presidents, other than the current one , aren't dictators. They rarely get much of what they want. Even the president who were considered the best all had their dark sides. None of them were perfect. Trump is just doing his best to get what he wants and to tear down all of the fragile pillars of our democratic experiment. I just want him out. If we must have another white male to do it, so be it. I just hope the nominee will choose a younger woman of color to run as VP. That would be make me feel better.

All this pie in the sky nonsense is depressing. We need a candidate who is progressive but pragmatic, with some wide spread appeal. I don't see that person among the nominees.

 

[Politesse]

Sheesh. It's hard to get conservatives to even give a nod to the existence of racism, let along define it. Now you're asking for metrics whereby to measure its "horrificness"?

Sorry I was asking about the Democrats. He used the words 'horrifically racist' for them.

I guess it's more horrific to me because of the blatant hypocrisy of it all. They act like they are owed minority votes in every election, but whenever they actually gain substantial power (such as in my state right now), things don't get better for anyone with the wrong skin color and often actually get worse. If you're going to discriminate, I guess do so, but don't lie to my face, you know? The current DNC frontrunner is such because he is supposedly more "electable" than any of his competitors. If you think that's code for anything other than "he's an old white guy" I've got a bridge on Lake Havasu to sell you. Because said guy has run for and handily lost this very office several times. Northern liberals are racist to their core, they just don't like to say out loud in mixed company.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Sheesh. It's hard to get conservatives to even give a nod to the existence of racism, let along define it. Now you're asking for metrics whereby to measure its "horrificness"?

Sorry I was asking about the Democrats. He used the words 'horrifically racist' for them.

I guess it's more horrific to me because of the blatant hypocrisy of it all. They act like they are owed minority votes in every election, but whenever they actually gain substantial power (such as in my state right now), things don't get better for anyone with the wrong skin color and often actually get worse. If you're going to discriminate, I guess do so, but don't lie to my face, you know? The current DNC frontrunner is such because he is supposedly more "electable" than any of his competitors. If you think that's code for anything other than "he's an old white guy" I've got a bridge on Lake Havasu to sell you. Because said guy has run for and handily lost this very office several times. Northern liberals are racist to their core, they just don't like to say out loud in mixed company.

Buddy: you are exaggerating a little here! I also think that it it's a little discriminatory to assume that minorities only vote democratic expecting whites to fix everything for us! More electable to me refers to the fact that Biden is simply less scary: he wants less change, he's more optimistic, will appeal to more moderates and etc. He's also a known commodity coming from the Obama administration. Obama was extremely electable and he wasn't white!

 

[lpetrich]

Politics Podcast: Why Harris Dropped Out | FiveThirtyEight

They seemed to agree KH bailed unusually early - maybe she decided to cut her losses rather than continue to the bitter end and be saddled with a mountain of debt. So she avoided the usual final days of a failed campaign.


Michael Bloomberg Outspent The Entire Democratic Field In TV Ads Last Week | FiveThirtyEight

Also unusual is where Bloomberg is airing his ads. In keeping with his plan not to contest the first four states on the primary calendar, he’s only aired 151 spots so far in media markets based in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada or South Carolina.1 Instead, his ads have aired most often in Florida (1,796 times), California (1,753 times) and Texas (1,326 times). It is probably not a coincidence that those are also the three most delegate-rich states with March primaries. In case it wasn’t already clear, it looks like Bloomberg’s plan is to dwarf other candidates’ early-state delegate hauls by doing well on Super Tuesday and beyond.

So he wants to win big in Super Tuesday. I suspect that he will likely end up splitting the moderate vote, the vote of people who like Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg.

I think that PB is a political bimbo - a male bimbo, a mimbo, a himbo.

 

[lpetrich]

How Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Could Save Bernie Sanders' Campaign Amid Impeachment

The House Democrats are hoping to get their impeachment of Trump (tRump?) done by Xmas, and after that, the Senate will try the President (pResident). That could go into the first primaries.

A problem is that some of the Presidential candidates are also Senators, and they could be tied up in the Senate.

Bernie Sanders: AOC, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar
Elizabeth Warren: Ayanna Pressley, Deb Haaland, Katie Porter

Senator Kamala Harris has dropped out, but Senators Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, Michael Bennet continue in this race.

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard is in the other chamber, and Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg are currently not in any office.

AOC:

“You know, it's certainly a consideration,” Ocasio-Cortez recently told BuzzFeed News of campaigning for Sanders if there's a Senate trial. “I haven't made any hard commitments but … I think it's a possibility and it's certainly something that I'm open to.”

Ro Khanna:

“I didn't have health care. I wasn't being paid a living wage. And I didn't think that I deserved any of those things,” she said at a rally for Sanders in October. “It wasn't until I heard of a man by the name of Bernie Sanders that I began to question and assert and recognize my inherent value as a human being that deserves health care, housing, education, and a living wage.”

AOC also talks often about what she thinks that the Democratic Party ought to be, while BS does not do much of that.

“I want to be the party of the New Deal again. The party of the Civil Rights Act, the one that electrified this nation and fights for all people,” Ocasio-Cortez tweeted recently, along with a video of her knocking on doors for Sanders. “For that, many would call us radical. But we aren’t ‘pushing the party left,’ we are bringing the party home.”

Terry Sullivan, who managed Marco Rubio's campaign:

“What makes AOC such a valuable surrogate is that it strengths Bernie’s message of, ‘Look, I’m the original socialist, all the other cool young socialists love me. It also helps cover for the fact that I’m 800 years old. Young people like me,’” he said. “Those are the surrogates who do help.”

He's only 78 years old, but still very old.

 

[lpetrich]

As to campaign surrogates, AOC's NY-14 primary opponent once had one. Rep. Joe Crowley once did not show up for a debate with her, claiming scheduling conflicts. Instead, he sent NYC Councilmember Annabel Palma in his stead, "a woman with slight resemblance to me" as AOC later tweeted. JC was later discovered to be at some other NYC event at the time.

So is history repeating itself? A Hispanic woman subbing for an old white man.


Tulsi Gabbard LIVE - Tulsi Town Hall - Mancheser, NH - YouTube (2019 Nov 30)

TG's main pitch was getting out of the wars that the US has been involved with. She didn't say anything about domestic policy in her stump speech. Someone asked about the US adopting the metric system, and she was noncommittal about it. She supports Medicare for All but she said little about it. She also accepts only small campaign donations. Is she hoping to become Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense?


The REAL Reason Kamala Harris Dropped Out - YouTube - Ana Kasparian and Cenk Uygur suspect that KH's donors decided that she is not worth giving to anymore. They said that she was a fake progressive for much of the campaign so far. But they agree that she had indeed run out of money.

 

[angelo]

The Dems clown car, or should that be bus, rolls on to a Thelma Louis run off a cliff ending.


https://cms.frontpagemag.com/point/...crash-bloombergsanders-rise-daniel-greenfield

 

[Harry Bosch]

As to campaign surrogates, AOC's NY-14 primary opponent once had one. Rep. Joe Crowley once did not show up for a debate with her, claiming scheduling conflicts. Instead, he sent NYC Councilmember Annabel Palma in his stead, "a woman with slight resemblance to me" as AOC later tweeted. JC was later discovered to be at some other NYC event at the time.

So is history repeating itself? A Hispanic woman subbing for an old white man.


Tulsi Gabbard LIVE - Tulsi Town Hall - Mancheser, NH - YouTube (2019 Nov 30)

TG's main pitch was getting out of the wars that the US has been involved with. She didn't say anything about domestic policy in her stump speech. Someone asked about the US adopting the metric system, and she was noncommittal about it. She supports Medicare for All but she said little about it. She also accepts only small campaign donations. Is she hoping to become Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense?


The REAL Reason Kamala Harris Dropped Out - YouTube - Ana Kasparian and Cenk Uygur suspect that KH's donors decided that she is not worth giving to anymore. They said that she was a fake progressive for much of the campaign so far. But they agree that she had indeed run out of money.

Yea, I listened to a Tulsi 3-hour interview the other day (was stuck in a very long traffic jam). I was not impressed. The only issue that she talks about is not getting involved in foreign wars. It's the only issue that she cares about. The minute a caller or the interviewer tried to engage in another issue, she shut up and returned to the evils of war (although Russian carpet bombing in Iraq is okay). Her only other issue is that she believes that there is an active conspiracy to keep her off the ballot, and her lack of popularity is just a lie, and etc. She's becoming the Alex Jones of the left.

 

[southernhybrid]

Why so many older black voters support Biden

A lot of white people think that the only reason that so many older as well as some younger black voters support Biden is because they think he appeals to white voters. But in my discussions with a couple of black Biden supporters, I don't think that's usually the reason at all. Sure, some probably do think he has the best chance of beating Trump, and some probably think that he appeals to white voters, but there's a lot more to it, imo.


https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/12/01/biden-support-black-voters-obama-vice-president/40735819/

After Kamala Harris challenged Joe Biden’s past opposition to school busing in a nationally televised Democratic presidential debate, the former vice president who prides himself on strong relationships in the black community was in an unfamiliar place, playing defense on race.

But Bebe Coker had a message for the man she’s known for decades: don’t back down. The 81-year-old education activist remembered the history differently than Harris’ portrayal, recalling black parents encouraging Biden to reject forcing black students to attend white schools.

“I told him not to back down off of that,” Coker, who is black, said in an interview. “I know Joe’s heart. I guess that’s why I’m rather defensive of him. Joe has always been straight-up Joe. But when things come back at people that don’t look like us, they will say it’s racist because it doesn’t sound right when it’s coming out of somebody else’s mouth.”

People who have known Biden for decades speak to the depth of good will he has among black voters. They talk of Biden as someone who has known and courted black voters for more than a half century. That, they say, could make it difficult for other candidates who hope to persuade some black voters to change their minds.

“He knew our plight, he knew how we felt,” said Richard “Mouse” Smith, who met Biden as a kid in Wilmington, Delaware’s black community where Biden worked as a lifeguard during college.

“He walked through gangs, learned all nicknames, he was part of this community,” said Smith, who remains one of Biden’s oldest and closest friends. “Joe had to be accountable to the black leadership in this city. We made him.”

Biden has credited his early years in Delaware politics as formative, particularly the community known as “The Bucket,” the largely African American, downtrodden northeast Wilmington neighborhood that was home to housing projects, crime, drugs and violence. He returned to the area as a young lawyer during the 1968 Wilmington riots after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. He represented the community of New Castle as a county councilman, supporting public housing and opposing highway projects he saw as potentially harmful to black neighborhoods.

The above are why I think many black voters, especially the older ones, support Biden. They honestly like and trust the man. And, older black voters tend to be more moderate compared to younger white voters. I spoke to a younger black female who I used to work with a few weeks ago. She's not even paying attention to the election yet. My closest black friend's two middle aged children don't even vote, much to their mother's disgust. That's certainly a problem where I live.

My point is that we should never make assumptions as to why other people favor a particular candidate. There's usually more to it than what we sometimes think. It's better to directly talk to those who favor other candidates instead of prejudging them. Ask them why they favor a certain candidate.

And, to add a personal anecdote, my black friend who talks about the election with me several times a week, has told me that Biden is the only candidate she finds appealing. She didn't like any of the others, so she supports the person she feels she knows and can trust. She also told me that the more progressive candidates are very unrealistic, promising things that will never happen. A lot of people feel that way. Still, my friend, like most Democrats will vote for the nominee, whoever that ends up being, in the general.

 

[lpetrich]

Tulsi Gabbard LIVE - Tulsi Town Hall - Mancheser, NH - YouTube (2019 Nov 30)

TG's main pitch was getting out of the wars that the US has been involved with. She didn't say anything about domestic policy in her stump speech. Someone asked about the US adopting the metric system, and she was noncommittal about it. She supports Medicare for All but she said little about it. She also accepts only small campaign donations. Is she hoping to become Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense?

Yea, I listened to a Tulsi 3-hour interview the other day (was stuck in a very long traffic jam). I was not impressed. The only issue that she talks about is not getting involved in foreign wars. It's the only issue that she cares about. The minute a caller or the interviewer tried to engage in another issue, she shut up and returned to the evils of war (although Russian carpet bombing in Iraq is okay). Her only other issue is that she believes that there is an active conspiracy to keep her off the ballot, and her lack of popularity is just a lie, and etc. She's becoming the Alex Jones of the left.

No wonder she's doing so badly. These distant wars are not a big issue - none of the other Democratic candidates are making a big issue out of that. At least Andrew Yang doesn't indulge in self-pitying conspiracy theories.

Isaac Asimov wrote in his autobiography that if there was one thing that he didn't want his children to do, it's self-pity. I also recall him calling Galileo "the patron saint of self-pitying crackpots."

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I guess it's more horrific to me because of the blatant hypocrisy of it all. They act like they are owed minority votes in every election, but whenever they actually gain substantial power (such as in my state right now), things don't get better for anyone with the wrong skin color and often actually get worse. If you're going to discriminate, I guess do so, but don't lie to my face, you know? The current DNC frontrunner is such because he is supposedly more "electable" than any of his competitors. If you think that's code for anything other than "he's an old white guy" I've got a bridge on Lake Havasu to sell you. Because said guy has run for and handily lost this very office several times. Northern liberals are racist to their core, they just don't like to say out loud in mixed company.

Buddy: you are exaggerating a little here! I also think that it it's a little discriminatory to assume that minorities only vote democratic expecting whites to fix everything for us! More electable to me refers to the fact that Biden is simply less scary: he wants less change, he's more optimistic, will appeal to more moderates and etc. He's also a known commodity coming from the Obama administration. Obama was extremely electable and he wasn't white!

Actually he's pretty spot on. I've seen it myself, growing up poor and Hispanic. The Democrats care so much, because they are so much better than us. We owe them everything for all the stuff they say they will do for us, and constant unending gratitude. We can't take care of ourselves, we need them to take care of us. Minorities can't make their way forward in the world without Democrat assistance.

When helping the poor, Republicans say "you need Jesus". Democrats say "we are Jesus".

 

[Treedbear]

...
Actually he's pretty spot on. I've seen it myself, growing up poor and Hispanic. The Democrats care so much, because they are so much better than us. We owe them everything for all the stuff they say they will do for us, and constant unending gratitude. We can't take care of ourselves, we need them to take care of us. Minorities can't make their way forward in the world without Democrat assistance.

When helping the poor, Republicans say "you need Jesus". Democrats say "we are Jesus".

I'm an old white guy who owes plenty to the Democratic party. If you ask me the Republicans should stop preaching and ask themselves what Jesus would do, rather than always expecting Jesus to solve the world's problems.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

...
Actually he's pretty spot on. I've seen it myself, growing up poor and Hispanic. The Democrats care so much, because they are so much better than us. We owe them everything for all the stuff they say they will do for us, and constant unending gratitude. We can't take care of ourselves, we need them to take care of us. Minorities can't make their way forward in the world without Democrat assistance.

When helping the poor, Republicans say "you need Jesus". Democrats say "we are Jesus".

I'm an old white guy who owes plenty to the Democratic party. If you ask me the Republicans should stop preaching and ask themselves what Jesus would do, rather than always expecting Jesus to solve the world's problems.

I'm a middle-aged Hispanic guy who worked hard to be middle-class, and I hate the smug superior attitude of the progressives who want to "help" me.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I'm a newly minted retiree, white, male, and know that if I don't vote democratic it's because I chose to be an asshole.

 

[fromderinside]

Don't bean asshole. Help a middle aged hispanic to be other than an asshole.

 

[Treedbear]

...
Actually he's pretty spot on. I've seen it myself, growing up poor and Hispanic. The Democrats care so much, because they are so much better than us. We owe them everything for all the stuff they say they will do for us, and constant unending gratitude. We can't take care of ourselves, we need them to take care of us. Minorities can't make their way forward in the world without Democrat assistance.

When helping the poor, Republicans say "you need Jesus". Democrats say "we are Jesus".

I'm an old white guy who owes plenty to the Democratic party. If you ask me the Republicans should stop preaching and ask themselves what Jesus would do, rather than always expecting Jesus to solve the world's problems.

I'm a middle-aged Hispanic guy who worked hard to be middle-class, and I hate the smug superior attitude of the progressives who want to "help" me.

Also middle class, although just barely hanging onto it, and progressively liberal. And I don't know what kind of people you've run into. But if you agree with what Politesse said:

... Northern liberals are racist to their core, they just don't like to say out loud in mixed company.

I find that kind of generalization very offensive. Maybe you mean the religious ones. The atheists and humanists I know of only want minorities to be treated fairly. And if you don't want to take advantage of the social programs they promote you're fine to go it on your own. I think it's better for everyone when those programs are available when people really need them no matter what your ancestry, gender, religious belief, or sexual preference. We celibrate diversity. Perhaps it comes across as smugness, I don't know how it appears to you. But that really is what differentiates us from the Republicans these days.

 

[Toni]

Yes, medical school costs need to be addressed somehow. I'm not sure what the solution is.

One workable solution is to have medical school reimbursed for years serving under-served communities. Spend a year serving a poor community in a government facility, get a year’s tuition paid. If all health care proofessionals spent their first 7 years serving poor communities, we would bring great care to those communities, and society would get good value for their educaiton bucks.

People already embrace this with the GI bill.

They do it for law schools as well. For law school, it's 10 years. Unless Trump manages to have his way and destroy that program too. He's trying to do just that.

But here's the thing: Graduates of law or med school must pay interest on the loans they have taken out during those 10 years. AND more importantly, those loans count on the credit score. Try to qualify for a home loan if you are carrying over $100K in student loan debt. Even if you are working in one of those positions (which, btw, are not high paying) you still must pay for housing in some manner and some form of transportation. Most of those underserved areas are rural or mostly rural which means you need a reliable car. By the time you are no longer cash strapped because you've worked your 10 years, if you are a woman who went to medical school, did your residencies on the usual time line, you are going to struggle if you wish to have a child. If you are a man, you have more flexibility but assuming you married someone a few years younger than you are, and you've delayed parenthood until you have student loan debt off your backs, you are going to face the potential of fertility issues and higher rates of complications for these older mothers (i.e. over 35). And please don't anyone try to tell me this is rare. I just spent 3 days in the hospital with a friend who was re-admitted a week after delivering her second child by c-section, due to preeclampsia, a dangerous condition much more common before giving birth and much more common among older mothers. This woman is highly educated, well employed and well supported by friends and community who value her and her family and a job that is able to grant her parental leave and adjust her schedule for some months after the birth of her child. No substance abuse, no previous health problems but a difficult second pregnancy and then the hospitalization. The risks of maternal and neonatal complications are simply greater after a certain age, as they are for very young girls and women (i.e. under 18).

And fwiw, no one should have to risk their lives by joining the armed forces in order to be able to attend a university or trade school. Nor should they be required to be in a position where they might have to/definitely will have to kill another human being in order to get an education. That is morally wrong. AND it dramatically favors men over women.

The debt load for students is just too damn high. Period.