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Democrats 2020

 
Jolly_Penguin said:
ZiprHead said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Here's an interesting observation. I've been following the Yang Gang (and supported Yang) for his whole run, and now that he's dropping out I'm seeing fascinating schism forming between his supporters. Half of them are now talking about Bernie, and another large contingent of them are shifting to (back to) Trump. He pulled these folks away from Trump and now they are going back to him.
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Out of curiosity, where are you seeing this?
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Everywhere that is/was pro-Yang. Problem solver politics, Paget kagy, Zach and Matt show and other comment sections and live streams. The people are mostly Dem but there is a large contingent of cross overs, who had been for Trump or independent or not engaged in politics prior to Yang. He had a whole bunch of formerly pro-Trump truckers on Yang's side who are definitely not otherwise liberals. Good chance they now vote Trump again.
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I've looked up all of these, Problem solver politics, Paget kagy, Zach and Matt show, followed through several hundred comments on all three. I only saw Trump mentioned once and that was that he should make Yang his VP choice. I saw a few Tulsi Gabbard switch overs. I didn't see one person say they were switching to Trump. Got any examples you could post?

I did see a lot of young, idealistic people who said they will take their ball and go home like immature little brats.
 
ZiprHead said:
people who said they will take their ball and go home like immature little brats.
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You are not owed their vote. Nobody is. It is up to the politician to earn it. A bunch of them were inactive politically prior to Yang's campaign, and they'll go back to being politically inactive. A bunch more were Trump voters and will probably return to him. Look up truckers for yang. Fred is the figurehead but many others have the same story. Staunch Republicans (or independents) weary and distrustful of Democrats, but Yang won them over. This contingent of the Yang Gang are not diehard liberals and are not "blue no matter who", but more "not blue, unless its Yang". I hope Yang winds up giving an endorsement to Bernie or Warren if she keeps in the race, and that some of Yang Gang people in this camp follow him over. Because many of his voters are the swing voters the Dems need to win over. And calling them "immature little brats" isn't going to go far in winning their votes.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
ZiprHead said:
people who said they will take their ball and go home like immature little brats.
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You are not owed their vote. Nobody is. It is up to the politician to earn it. A bunch of them were inactive politically prior to Yang's campaign, and they'll go back to being politically inactive. A bunch more were Trump voters and will probably return to him. Look up truckers for yang. Fred is the figurehead but many others have the same story. Staunch Republicans (or independents) weary and distrustful of Democrats, but Yang won them over. This contingent of the Yang Gang are not diehard liberals and are not "blue no matter who", but more "not blue, unless its Yang". I hope Yang winds up giving an endorsement to Bernie or Warren if she keeps in the race, and that some of Yang Gang people in this camp follow him over. Because many of his voters are the swing voters the Dems need to win over. And calling them "immature little brats" isn't going to go far in winning their votes.
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"I'm going to go poke my own eyes out. I'll look so noble when I'm done."
 
Another one bites the dust: Deval Patrick Drops Out Of 2020 Race : NPR
"[T]he vote in New Hampshire last night was not enough for us to create the practical wind at the campaign's back to go on to the next round of voting. So I have decided to suspend the campaign, effective immediately," he said in a statement.

...
Patrick's entrance into the crowded primary field seemed to indicate unease among Democrats with the large group of candidates, and Patrick, a gifted campaigner who is close to former President Barack Obama, cast himself as a leader who could unify the party and bring opposing coalitions together.

He also leaned into his inspiring life story, rising from his youth in Chicago to become one of only two African American men elected governor.
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Another Obama-like candidate.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
ZiprHead said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Here's an interesting observation. I've been following the Yang Gang (and supported Yang) for his whole run, and now that he's dropping out I'm seeing fascinating schism forming between his supporters. Half of them are now talking about Bernie, and another large contingent of them are shifting to (back to) Trump. He pulled these folks away from Trump and now they are going back to him.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, where are you seeing this?
Click to expand...

Everywhere that is/was pro-Yang. Problem solver politics, Paget kagy, Zach and Matt show and other comment sections and live streams. The people are mostly Dem but there is a large contingent of cross overs, who had been for Trump or independent or not engaged in politics prior to Yang. He had a whole bunch of formerly pro-Trump truckers on Yang's side who are definitely not otherwise liberals. Good chance they now vote Trump again.
Click to expand...

There's a good chance that they were always going to vote for Trump in the general election. Since there is no contest on the Republican side for the nomination, a lot of Republicans are voting in Democratic primaries for less popular candidates such as Gabbard and Yang, who are more appealing to them. That may have accounted for a significant portion of the small numbers of caucus and primary backers and funding for these minor candidates.
 
Copernicus said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Everywhere that is/was pro-Yang. Problem solver politics, Paget kagy, Zach and Matt show and other comment sections and live streams. The people are mostly Dem but there is a large contingent of cross overs, who had been for Trump or independent or not engaged in politics prior to Yang. He had a whole bunch of formerly pro-Trump truckers on Yang's side who are definitely not otherwise liberals. Good chance they now vote Trump again.
Click to expand...

There's a good chance that they were always going to vote for Trump in the general election. Since there is no contest on the Republican side for the nomination, a lot of Republicans are voting in Democratic primaries for less popular candidates such as Gabbard and Yang, who are more appealing to them. That may have accounted for a significant portion of the small numbers of caucus and primary backers and funding for these minor candidates.
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Bonespurs actually encourages this crossover voting at his NH rally. I also heard that 12,000 people voted for Weld in the Republican primary.

As for people leaving Yang and going back to Trump...

EQdnLxoWkAIbn34.jpg

if this guy goes back to Trump he's dumber than one of the mudflaps on his truck.
 
Copernicus said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Everywhere that is/was pro-Yang. Problem solver politics, Paget kagy, Zach and Matt show and other comment sections and live streams. The people are mostly Dem but there is a large contingent of cross overs, who had been for Trump or independent or not engaged in politics prior to Yang. He had a whole bunch of formerly pro-Trump truckers on Yang's side who are definitely not otherwise liberals. Good chance they now vote Trump again.
Click to expand...

There's a good chance that they were always going to vote for Trump in the general election. Since there is no contest on the Republican side for the nomination, a lot of Republicans are voting in Democratic primaries for less popular candidates such as Gabbard and Yang, who are more appealing to them. That may have accounted for a significant portion of the small numbers of caucus and primary backers and funding for these minor candidates.
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Some exist like that, sure. But Yang had quite a few (see Truckers for Yang) who were Trump voters and now favour Yang. Same with many who were not politically active before Yang. Bernie has activated a few of those otherwise non-voters too.

Ziprhead said:
]"I'm going to go poke my own eyes out. I'll look so noble when I'm done."
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Would you prefer they vote Trump? You are starting from the position that they share your view of blue over all else, and of Trump as the ultimate worst choice. They don't. A bunch of them prefered Trump to Hillary (and still do) but prefer Yang over Trump. Maybe if Yang endorses Bernie or somebody that may keep their votes on your side.
 
ZiprHead said:
if this guy goes back to Trump he's dumber than one of the mudflaps on his truck.
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He's not alone, and calling him dumb isn't going to win you any votes.

The good news is that a much larger bunch of Yang Gang will move over to Bernie (with or without Yang's endorsement; but that endorsement would help)
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
ZiprHead said:
if this guy goes back to Trump he's dumber than one of the mudflaps on his truck.
Click to expand...

He's not alone, and calling him dumb isn't going to win you any votes.

The good news is that a much larger bunch of Yang Gang will move over to Bernie (with or without Yang's endorsement; but that endorsement would help)
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I didn't know he was reading this forum.

It's sweet you think Trump voters can be reasoned with.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
ZiprHead said:
if this guy goes back to Trump he's dumber than one of the mudflaps on his truck.
Click to expand...

He's not alone, and calling him dumb isn't going to win you any votes.
Click to expand...
Pretty much, they aren't listening if they are going to Trump from Yang.

The good news is that a much larger bunch of Yang Gang will move over to Bernie (with or without Yang's endorsement; but that endorsement would help)
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Yang feels more like a 3rd party supporter type of candidate. But his support was so low that it won't change the scales much at all.
 
Guess who liked Andrew Yang.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez commends Andrew Yang on presidential campaign - Business Insider

Andrew Yang🧢 on Twitter: "I am so proud of this campaign. Thank you to everyone who got us here. 🙏" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "@AndrewYang You ran a great race, @AndrewYang. Your campaign focused on the future, and looked like you were having a lot of fun doing it. Thank you for bringing up ideas like UBI and opening a discourse on how we better value undervalued work like caregiving." / Twitter

AOC caused some controversy about AY's favorite issue late last year:

Brigid Bergin on Twitter: "At her BX town hall, @AOC takes a Q about whether she supports universal basic income (UBI). She does not support @AndrewYang's $1000 a mo policy, calling it a regressive approach that's a "Trojan horse to gut the social safety net." But she's open to other UBI policies." / Twitter
2019 Nov 6

I went to the trouble of tracking down what she said and I found:
Loren Petrich on Twitter: "@brigidbergin @AOC @AndrewYang I went to RepAOC at Facebook and I watched her town-hall video there. AOC did *not* mention Andrew Yang by name, so she didn't link a "bare UBI" policy to him. It was her questioner who did so, so I don't think that she deserves to be beaten up about that." / Twitter
2019 Nov 7

She got such criticisms as

Rachfor1KBRO on Twitter: "@brigidbergin @AOC @AndrewYang WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe she used that exact rhetoric. Seems like she's just been listening to talking heads rather than doing her own research. That's a shame. Expected more from her." / Twitter

Scott Santens🧢 on Twitter: "@brigidbergin @AOC @AndrewYang It's unfortunate AOC has fallen for the misinformation out there but it's understandable considering how much of it there is coming from those around her. If she took the time to read this article of mine, she'd see the misinfo as the misinfo it is. https://t.co/kqyvOjWOuk" / Twitter
 
GIFShinobi🧢 on Twitter: "@AOC @AndrewYang #YangGang will never forget @AOC . . never https://t.co/vgQuJmQ5aF" / Twitter
with video of AOC stating her criticisms of having $1000/mo UBI and not any other welfare-state stuff.

AOC got a lot of criticism from Yang and UBI supporters, but I found this:
Pasquale B. on Twitter: "@GIFShin0bi @AOC @AndrewYang To be fair, thats literally the language of the proposed plan and a major criticism of it.
I had faith though it would be addressed when it became a bigger issue as the the reality of a UBI program became more likely." / Twitter


Andrew Yang's run got a lot of other praise, and I found this in it:

DrDog🗽barks@corruption on Twitter: "@AndrewYang I love @ewarren but I still like your style @AndrewYang. Stay fly. https://t.co/spA6xjIht1" / Twitter
  • Lawful good: Elizabeth Warren
  • Neutral good: Tom Steyer
  • Chaotic good: Bernie Sanders
  • Lawful neutral: Amy Klobuchar
  • True neutral: Joe Biden
  • Chaotic neutral: Andrew Yang
  • Lawful evil: Pete Buttigieg
  • Neutral evil: Michael Bloomberg
  • Chaotic evil: Tulsi Gabbard
 
Sanders drags Democrats to the left; will it be 1972 all over again? | TheHill
Former mayor Pete Buttigieg, despite his relative lack of experience, is building a base of support that is in the mold of former Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. Like them, he is smart and knowledgeable — but his resume is thin. This proved no roadblock for either Obama or Clinton, as they parlayed a brief time in the Senate or a governorship of Arkansas into presidential material. South Bend, Ind., could, however, prove more challenging.
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The article didn't discuss the 1972 disaster in any detail, but that was a case of a split in the Democratic Party base, between the hippies and the hardhats, the New Left and organized labor. I doubt that there is any such split in its base nowadays - the activists are mostly on the left.
 
This was Yang's first foray into politics and he went further than a lot of career politicians. I will keep an eye out for him in the future. I think there's a good chance he will pop again, or that somebody will take the ideas that he championed and run with them. When he entered the race he made the following bold prediction: Either I will win, or the others will start sounding a lot like me. He didn't win, but others are sounding a lot like him. He has shifted that overton window so that now UBI and automation have become mainstream issues under discussion.
 
I'm waiting for one of the Dem candidates to grow a pair and extend an offer to every single civil servant that Trump and his toadies have fired, to come back to work with a hefty raise if they're elected. And to loudly announce that if elected, they're going to summarily fire every person hired by Trump and his toadies. (Of course they can re-apply and be considered).
 
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