Democrats 2020

[PyramidHead]

Also, anybody who thinks the election results from tonight are anything close to legitimate is a rube, plain and simple. Even if they favor Bernie, they are simply not reflective of anything other than the opinions of people who are either misinformed about the virus or wantonly negligent about spreading it. Those are not the people who should be deciding our nominee under any circumstances.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Imagine a basketball game. It's 4 minutes before half time. Team A has 54 points. Team B has 45 points.

After today, the second quarter will end. There will be a new score we observe. It will be half time.

Imagine, someone using a viable parallel, because the rules of basketball have shit in common with becoming the Democrat nominee for President. The opposing team would need to be awarded 1.5 points for even basket the other team scored.

Biden has 898 delegates and Sanders has 745 delegates. The game is won when someone gets 1991 which is a majority.

Yes, I'm aware of how this works. There are 2,261 delegates remaining. BIden needs 1,093 more or 48% of the delegates and Sanders needs 1,246 more or 55% of the remaining. So on average, Sanders needs +7% over Biden, when he isn't winning the African American vote. That seems unlikely.

Neither Biden nor Sanders have half that amount yet. Biden and Sanders together don't have that amount either.

And if they go into the Convention to a second ballot, you think the Super Delegates are going for Sanders?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Also, anybody who thinks the election results from tonight are anything close to legitimate is a rube, plain and simple. Even if they favor Bernie, they are simply not reflective of anything other than the opinions of people who are either misinformed about the virus or wantonly negligent about spreading it. Those are not the people who should be deciding our nominee under any circumstances.

Yes, we must have elections, but if they don't go our way, we shouldn't abide by their results.

 

[Elixir]

Also, anybody who thinks the election results from tonight are anything close to legitimate is a rube, plain and simple. Even if they favor Bernie, they are simply not reflective of anything other than the opinions of people who are either misinformed about the virus or wantonly negligent about spreading it. Those are not the people who should be deciding our nominee under any circumstances.

Newsflash:
The Federal and most State governments are comprised of people elected by ignorant rubes.
What is needed is fewer ignorant rubes. Better, more accessible education, better infrastructure, better healthcare. Elect people who will strive for those ends.
Eventually the effect will be to get rid of the ignorant rubes, and you'll get rid of the corrupt morons they elect thereafter.
And we all live happily ever after.

Or ... whine about how corrupt every candidate is.

 

[skepticalbip]

Also, anybody who thinks the election results from tonight are anything close to legitimate is a rube, plain and simple. Even if they favor Bernie, they are simply not reflective of anything other than the opinions of people who are either misinformed about the virus or wantonly negligent about spreading it. Those are not the people who should be deciding our nominee under any circumstances.

Newsflash:
The Federal and most State governments are comprised of people elected by ignorant rubes.
What is needed is fewer ignorant rubes.

.............

Unfortunately, literacy tests or intelligence tests are illegal for determining who can vote.

My suggestion doesn't have any support either. I think every adult citizen should be allowed to vote but the ballots should be changed. I suggest that all candidates for all offices be arranged in alphabetical order with no D, R, or I to identify party. Also names not running like John Wayne, Clare Booth Luce, Clark Kent should be included in the list. On the other side of the ballot, a list of all the offices that are being voted on are listed. The voter then simply connects the candidate they want for each office.

This would mean that only those voters who know what the hell is going on will make any significant determination as to who is elected.

 

[Treedbear]

I think if there's no possible path to the nomination after today then drawing out the debate will only harden the positions taken by both sides. As we unify as a nation and hopefully as a world against the pandemic there needs to be one clear message coming from the Dems.

You can't just demand that people agree with your message in the name of unity and stability. Centrist Democrats have had more than a decade to implement their ideas, while conditions in the nation steadily and then precipitously worsened. I think most people will, eventually, vote for the Blue nominee. But saying that even public dissent from a party line is verboten; no, I can't agree with that. And demanding silence (oh, sorry, "consensus" (without the consent part)) on critical issues just so as to be "clear" to the public is not exactly endearing me to the so-called moderate position. If you're going to talk like a Republican, don't be offended when you're taken for one. I'm sure Bernie will step aside if things go south tonight, but that doesn't mean anyone has the right to demand that he give up his platform while he has it, and can still meaningfully push Biden in a more humane direction for a while longer.

Where exactly do you imagine that I made anything resembling a demand of anyone? That kind of unfounded sentiment exemplifies why there's good reason to start worrying about the unity of the Democratic party.

 

[Elixir]

Also, anybody who thinks the election results from tonight are anything close to legitimate is a rube, plain and simple. Even if they favor Bernie, they are simply not reflective of anything other than the opinions of people who are either misinformed about the virus or wantonly negligent about spreading it. Those are not the people who should be deciding our nominee under any circumstances.

Newsflash:
The Federal and most State governments are comprised of people elected by ignorant rubes.
What is needed is fewer ignorant rubes.

.............

Unfortunately, literacy tests or intelligence tests are illegal for determining who can vote.

Yeah, that would be nice. The actual, practical option is to educate them out of the ignorance part.

My suggestion doesn't have any support either. I think every adult citizen should be allowed to vote but the ballots should be changed. I suggest that all candidates for all offices be arranged in alphabetical order with no D, R, or I to identify party. Also names not running like John Wayne, Clare Booth Luce, Clark Kent should be included in the list. On the other side of the ballot, a list of all the offices that are being voted on are listed. The voter then simply connects the candidate they want for each office.

This would mean that only those voters who know what the hell is going on will make any significant determination as to who is elected.

It's a shame... no effort to blatantly disenfranchise the ignorant, the deluded or the batshit crazy is going to pass Republican muster - that's their core constituency.

 

[southernhybrid]

Unfortunately, literacy tests or intelligence tests are illegal for determining who can vote.

Actually, I know plenty of college grads, including my brother in law who is a dentist who voted for Trump. He's not at all a thoughtful person although he must be good at passing tests. On the other hand, I know plenty of people who barely made it through high school or have GEDS who are much more savvy voters than some of the so called brightest. So, I think it's a terrible idea that voting should be based on intelligence or educational level. Having a lot of letters after your name is not necessarily an indication of superior intelligence.

Anyway, I just heard that Biden is polling very well in the three states that held primaries today. And let's not forget what Sanders said awhile back. Whoever has the most delegates when the convention is held, should be the nominee. So, even if Biden doesn't get the required number, I'm sure that Bernie will step back and support him at the convention if he's in the lead. /s Well, let's hope he meant what he said! . The delegates get to decide in a brokered convention anyway. They aren't going to choose Bernie if he has fewer delegates than Biden.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Unfortunately, literacy tests or intelligence tests are illegal for determining who can vote.

Yeah, that would be nice. The actual, practical option is to educate them out of the ignorance part.

And we have Republicans to blame for that aspect--Reagan in particular--due to their concentrated and prolonged destruction of public education for precisely this reason.

This would mean that only those voters who know what the hell is going on will make any significant determination as to who is elected.

I also think we need to pass a new law stating that ONLY someone officially running for an office is allowed to ever discuss politics in any fashion. No spin doctors; campaign "teams"; PACs; private citizens; news anchors/pundits; not even political scientists. No one but an official candidate may ever speak about politics in any fashion or at any time. This includes me, of course. Some may think especially.

Seriously, though, it should be a capital offense for anyone other than official candidates to opine--in any way--on politics.

If everyone but the actual candidates would just shut the fuck up, then we'd all have something clear to focus on and could vote accordingly.

ETA: To clarify, ONLY Sanders can speak about his policies. ONLY Biden can speak about his policies. During (and only during) debates are candidates allowed to address each other directly and ask questions of each other.

Third parties may ask any candidate to better explain their positions at any time during the campaigns, of course, but that is the full extent of it.

And what a candidate says cannot be redacted in any fashion, so if a news organization wants to cover politics, they have no choice but to print a candidate's full speech verbatim--or show the entire video unedited--every single time they reference any part of it.

They are not even allowed to specify a particular section or time code in regard to something that was said. All they can do is say, "Here is their response."

 

[Politesse]

I think if there's no possible path to the nomination after today then drawing out the debate will only harden the positions taken by both sides. As we unify as a nation and hopefully as a world against the pandemic there needs to be one clear message coming from the Dems.

You can't just demand that people agree with your message in the name of unity and stability. Centrist Democrats have had more than a decade to implement their ideas, while conditions in the nation steadily and then precipitously worsened. I think most people will, eventually, vote for the Blue nominee. But saying that even public dissent from a party line is verboten; no, I can't agree with that. And demanding silence (oh, sorry, "consensus" (without the consent part)) on critical issues just so as to be "clear" to the public is not exactly endearing me to the so-called moderate position. If you're going to talk like a Republican, don't be offended when you're taken for one. I'm sure Bernie will step aside if things go south tonight, but that doesn't mean anyone has the right to demand that he give up his platform while he has it, and can still meaningfully push Biden in a more humane direction for a while longer.

Where exactly do you imagine that I made anything resembling a demand of anyone? That kind of unfounded sentiment exemplifies why there's good reason to start worrying about the unity of the Democratic party.

What exactly are you requesting, then, when you demand "one clear message?"

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Where exactly do you imagine that I made anything resembling a demand of anyone?

What exactly are you requesting, then, when you demand "one clear message?"

Why do you constantly default to strawmen!? Read what Treedbear wrote:

there needs to be one clear message coming from the Dems.

How do you get a "demand" from "needs"?

 

[Treedbear]

Why do you constantly default to strawmen!? Read what Treedbear wrote:

there needs to be one clear message coming from the Dems.

How do you get a "demand" from "needs"?

Exactly. What he said.

 

[PyramidHead]

Also, anybody who thinks the election results from tonight are anything close to legitimate is a rube, plain and simple. Even if they favor Bernie, they are simply not reflective of anything other than the opinions of people who are either misinformed about the virus or wantonly negligent about spreading it. Those are not the people who should be deciding our nominee under any circumstances.

Yes, we must have elections, but if they don't go our way, we shouldn't abide by their results.

Try again with your reading glasses on

 

[Politesse]

Why do you constantly default to strawmen!? Read what Treedbear wrote:

there needs to be one clear message coming from the Dems.

How do you get a "demand" from "needs"?

Exactly. What he said.

What "needs" to be done, and how?

 

[Treedbear]

Exactly. What he said.

What "needs" to be done, and how?

If we want to win the election we need to have a clear and unified message. Meaning that if we don't it will be less likely we'll win the election. I already suggested how that might come about. I need you to understand that point in order to have any further discussion. But if you don't that's fine too.

 

[ZiprHead]

NBC News projecting Biden wins Florida by a wide margin. Illinois too close to call.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

NBC News projecting Biden wins Florida by a wide margin.

That's the game.

Now it's time for Sanders to get the fuck out. Which he probably will not do and therefore justifiably receive all the wrath due to him now and any residual from 2015, when he did the exact same thing.

And his zombies will all declare from the rooftops that it was the corporate "establishment" that he threatened that somehow has the magical power to force millions to not vote for him.

 

[Trausti]

Bernie was robbed. Probably.

 

[Elixir]

Bernie was robbed. Probably.

So what?

So was Hillary.
So was Gore.
So was Gary Hart.

Your point?

 

[Trausti]

Bernie was robbed. Probably.

So what?

So was Hillary.
So was Gore.
So was Gary Hart.

Your point?

Always sticking up for the establishment, I see.