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Democrats 2020

Representative Clyburn says a white woman is alright as VP for Biden.

article said:
“I think having a woman on the ticket is a must,” the No. 3 House Democrat said in an interview with NBC News. “I’m among those who feel that it would be great for him to select a woman of color. But that is not a must.”

“I think that he should be informed in this decision by the vetting and the polling. And I think he should be guided by his head and his heart,” Clyburn added.
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You know, the more you talk about race and gender, the more it appears to be about only race and gender.
 
Meanwhile, in "please let this madness end in a landslide".

link

It is April, not October, so yeah, it isn't very meaningful, but still, PPP poll for Texas:

Biden - 47
Trump - 46

There are a couple of points of significance that are not good news for Trump.

1) Neither is over 50 pts. This is obviously worse for Trump, at least nationally speaking. A Republican hasn't had to worry about Texas since, what the Magna Carta? Yes, it was more recent than that. Technically, I think under 50 probably helps Trump, at the moment because there are those fence sitters that just won't be able to vote for a communist like Biden (who isn't remotely liberal), and Trump wins. But still, being under 50 for Trump, that is bad, no matter how far out.

2) Biden is in the lead at all. Trump's policies that are anti-Hispanic obviously isn't helping. In fact, the demographics in Texas indicate if Hispanics vote for Biden like African Americans, Biden wouldn't need to turn anyone else over to win the state! That seems unlikely, but the whole "Trump's Covid-19 Thing" is really pulling him down in the polls... and the trouble with pandemics is, the people that died are still dead in November, and that sticks with people (primarily families of lost ones). Yes, all the people dying are days from death anyway (according to some), but I know with my father, I'd have given anything for one more pain managed week. So this 'scandal' will carry a lot more weight than Trump is used to.

I'm not thinking Biden is marking Texas as an easy blue state quite yet, but this poll has to be a reason Trump is soiling himself, flinging poo at his campaign manager.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
I'm not thinking Biden is marking Texas as an easy blue state quite yet, but this poll has to be a reason Trump is soiling himself, flinging poo at his campaign manager.
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Like you said, polling this early doesn't tell us much beyond general trends. Oil prices having crashed, puts a lot of economic pressure on Texas and makes people less happy, tying back to James Carville's 'it's the economy stupid'. That Repugs and Clownstick are polling so poorly, it is going to force them to spend lots of money where they wouldn't normally have to. The GOP is going to have to spend big bucks in odd places defending Moscow Mitch and even a Montana Senate seat. Clownstick's team will have to poor money into Texas, Arizona, and other typically safer states never mind the oft competitive states.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
You know, the more you talk about race and gender, the more it appears to be about only race and gender.
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It's a trend I find worrisome. I'd love to have a woman as VP, a woman of color even more, it would be a great advance. But I don't want them to be VP *because* they're a woman of color, that just plays right into the "it's not equality it's special treatment" crowd.
 
Emily Lake said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
You know, the more you talk about race and gender, the more it appears to be about only race and gender.
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It's a trend I find worrisome. I'd love to have a woman as VP, a woman of color even more, it would be a great advance. But I don't want them to be VP *because* they're a woman of color, that just plays right into the "it's not equality it's special treatment" crowd.
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You shall have her...................Michelle Obuma.
 
angelo said:
Emily Lake said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
You know, the more you talk about race and gender, the more it appears to be about only race and gender.
Click to expand...
It's a trend I find worrisome. I'd love to have a woman as VP, a woman of color even more, it would be a great advance. But I don't want them to be VP *because* they're a woman of color, that just plays right into the "it's not equality it's special treatment" crowd.
Click to expand...

You shall have her...................Michelle Obuma.
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Bet you a nice steak dinner for you and yours at your favorite restaurant we shan't.
 
Here's something to consider about Joe's choice of VP, and why those who support him may not want someone from an official minority oppressed group to be the choice.

When Joe leaves office, his VP will become President. Do you want the first president to be a member of an official oppressed group to be someone who got that spot through Joe leaving office, or do you want the first whatever to actually be elected directly to the role?
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Here's something to consider about Joe's choice of VP, and why those who support him may not want someone from an official minority oppressed group to be the choice.

When Joe leaves office, his VP will become President. Do you want the first president to be a member of an official oppressed group to be someone who got that spot through Joe leaving office, or do you want the first whatever to actually be elected directly to the role?
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I think a whatever in office, however they got there, will establish a track record. Then there's something to compare the next 'whatever' candidate to, rather than the hypothetical stereotypes i've been hearing all my life.
How a black president will triple welfare benefits, a woman will start a war during PMS, and so on.
So, yeah, representation is representation. Not 'cheapened' by the actual Constitutional process.
Good question, though.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Here's something to consider about Joe's choice of VP, and why those who support him may not want someone from an official minority oppressed group to be the choice.

When Joe leaves office, his VP will become President. Do you want the first president to be a member of an official oppressed group to be someone who got that spot through Joe leaving office, or do you want the first whatever to actually be elected directly to the role?
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Yeah, that isn't a concern and not quite certain why that was even imagined as a concern.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Here's something to consider about Joe's choice of VP, and why those who support him may not want someone from an official minority oppressed group to be the choice.

When Joe leaves office, his VP will become President. Do you want the first president to be a member of an official oppressed group to be someone who got that spot through Joe leaving office, or do you want the first whatever to actually be elected directly to the role?
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First of all, we do not know when Joe, should he be elected, will leave office or under what circumstance.

But mainly, I'm surprised that you see women as oppressed.

Of course, for any person elected POTUS, we should select only someone who is well qualified and well able to handle the duties and responsibilities of that high office. And so should their VP be so qualified. So far, 8 presidents have died while in office, including at least one who was fairly young, and one has resigned, after his original VP was forced to resign. In the case of Nixon's resignation, wee ended up with a POTUS who was never voted for by the electorate as someone who would potentially become POTUS. But I suppose that was all OK because we're talking about white men and everybody knows what stable geniuses they all are.
 
Toni said:
But mainly, I'm surprised that you see women as oppressed.
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Saying "official minority oppressed group" doesn't mean I think they are oppressed, but that I see where they rank on the oppression olympics.

The rest of your post demonstrates that they are an official minority oppressed group when you talk about how Ford was a white male. White males are the exact opposite of official minority oppressed groups.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Here's something to consider about Joe's choice of VP, and why those who support him may not want someone from an official minority oppressed group to be the choice.

When Joe leaves office, his VP will become President. Do you want the first president to be a member of an official oppressed group to be someone who got that spot through Joe leaving office, or do you want the first whatever to actually be elected directly to the role?
Click to expand...

That has no practical importance. It's only possible relevance would be in terms posterity, such as making historical discussions about the first female president a bit more complicated and less storybook feel-good. But anyone who is hoping for the day when enough misogynists die off that a female is elected president is also greatly hoping for the day when the vile misogynist and a racist currently polluting the oval office is removed. Thus, if the right female VP helps Biden win, then great.

What's more likely than the people you imagine are those who would demand that the VP "diversify" the ticket, even if the person chosen weakens his odds of winning. They wouldn't do this deliberately, just blind themselves to the evidence that the choice would hurt his election odds. For example, it's plausible that Klochbar would do the most to help the ticket win in the critical states in play, while Harris might hurt the ticket. But some people will definitely attack Biden if he chose Klochbar. OTOH, it's possible that Harris would get enough additional black voters to the polls in Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia to make the difference in MA and PA.

I just hope Biden's campaign has the sense to focus on what their research shows will win them the critical states. Any VP would be infinitely more intelligent, competent, and ethical than Pence or Trump (if they had to take Biden's place). So, I really don't give a shit about anything but it helping the ticket.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Here's something to consider about Joe's choice of VP, and why those who support him may not want someone from an official minority oppressed group to be the choice.

When Joe leaves office, his VP will become President. Do you want the first president to be a member of an official oppressed group to be someone who got that spot through Joe leaving office, or do you want the first whatever to actually be elected directly to the role?
Click to expand...

Are you intending to ask if I'd rather have someone who is duly elected by merit of their genuine skills and competence versus accidentally inheriting the position only because they were selected as a symbolic gesture when they don't have the requisite skills?

In the context of this discussion though, I don't know that it matters all that much. I mean, I'd definitely rather have someone selected on their merits AND help overcome racial and gender barriers. In this case, I don't think anyone under consideration for VP lacks competency and skill for the job, so I don't think that a woman of color taking over in the event that Biden dies is somehow a bad thing. Tactically speaking, it might also be a valuable step. Women in general have a barrier in political leadership that just hasn't seemed to be overcome yet, and the headway made has been slow and painful. Women are 50% of the population, and less than 25% of elected representatives... even though we're currently seeing record representation. So even though my philosophical preference might be for gender bias to magically evaporate and a woman be elected solely on her merits, I think there's likely some value as a "proof of concept" in having a woman be VP.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Toni said:
But mainly, I'm surprised that you see women as oppressed.
Click to expand...

Saying "official minority oppressed group" doesn't mean I think they are oppressed, but that I see where they rank on the oppression olympics.
Click to expand...

Step back from the loaded lingo for a moment, if you will. I have two questions for you.
  • Do you feel that women have historically been disadvantaged in US Society relative to men, in general?
  • Do you feel that women currently have no barriers to leadership, economic independence, and career success relative to men?
 
Emily Lake said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Toni said:
But mainly, I'm surprised that you see women as oppressed.
Click to expand...

Saying "official minority oppressed group" doesn't mean I think they are oppressed, but that I see where they rank on the oppression olympics.
Click to expand...

Step back from the loaded lingo for a moment, if you will. I have two questions for you.
  • Do you feel that women have historically been disadvantaged in US Society relative to men, in general?
  • Do you feel that women currently have no barriers to leadership, economic independence, and career success relative to men?
Click to expand...

I'll bite on this one.

The major barrier to women in this regard is their own free choice to have children and take on the task of raising these children. Indeed, if you look at the data, women about the same or better (particularly women from the younger generations, where they have started to vastly outperform boys in schooling) than men in their career / earning *unless they have children*.

So if you want career success, don't have kids, or choose a mate that is willing to raise the children for you. That is what men do. There is nothing stopping women from having children with the many men who would be perfectly content not to work and raise children - of course, other than the fact that women don't tend to find such men very attractive.

And I will say, there is definitely an inherent cultural bias against women as leaders. However, I do not think this is anywhere near insurmountable, and unless you are advocating some seriously authoritarian means, the only way to solve this will involve slow cultural change, especially as the bias becomes smaller.
 
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