Democrats 2020

[Derec]

Kennedy should be on that list. I can see an O'Rourke-Kennedy ticket being very powerful, especially against Pence.

Which Kennedy? There is a Senator John Kennedy, but he is a Republican. You can't mean that ginger congressman who is not even 40, or can you?
An ex-congressman/congressman ticket, both young? I don't see it.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's time to have another female on the ticket and anyone associated with Sanders needs to stay far far away, but the pointless noise from the Sanders fringe won't go away like it should, so an OK ticket would appease them well enough to get them to help instead of hurt for a change.

OK ticket? I prefer the moniker β-Carotene. Get it? A Beto and a carrot-top.
As to females on the ticket, identity politics is strong in the Democratic party. Two white guys would be impossible to get past the rabid base. Another reason the β-Carotene ticket is a non-starter.

As I've noted before, I seriously doubt HRC will actually run again, but if she does, then it would mean either she bows out almost immediately (iow, she realizes right at the start that she's lost it), OR she shows us a side of her that we've never seen before, in which case, GREAT, because that will mean a fierce and uncompromising leader instead of the complaints of shallow style over substance so many around here have lobbed in the past.

If she runs, it won't be a near coronation she got in 2016. Several women will run, splitting that vote, and if Biden runs she will share the "old establishment Dem" vote with him too. That said, a crowded field of 12 or more people is highly unpredictable and anything can happen - even nominee Sanders. Trump won the nomination in part because he was the only one like himself on the crowded stage. Everybody else took away votes from each other until the trumpvalanche was too strong to stop.

But my guess is she won't even go beyond where she is now.

I guess too that she won't run again.

 

[lpetrich]

Meanwhile - seriously - a independent who could bleed off the most extreme right wing of the Republican party would be an even better thing than a good Dem candidate.

Yes, be a spoiler on the Right. Sort of like what Ralph Nader was in 2000 and Gary Johnson and Jill Stein were in 2016.

But the Right seems better at political strategy than the Left. At least it seems to understand Duverger's law better, or else it is better at meek obedience and following the party line. Consider all the Never Trumpers who became Trump-lovers.

 

[Axulus]

Kennedy should be on that list. I can see an O'Rourke-Kennedy ticket being very powerful, especially against Pence.

What makes O'Rourke a great candidate for President, exactly? He ran a great campaign against an asshole... and lost. Jones at least won the Senate race against the creepy mall judge in Ala Fucking Bama.

Some people seem to want to edge towards a person with charisma more than ability to lead.

As I've noted before, I seriously doubt HRC will actually run again, but if she does, then it would mean either she bows out almost immediately (iow, she realizes right at the start that she's lost it), OR she shows us a side of her that we've never seen before, in which case, GREAT, because that will mean a fierce and uncompromising leader instead of the complaints of shallow style over substance so many around here have lobbed in the past.

HRC and Sanders need to bow out gracefully. They can back someone else, but neither of them should even consider running.

O'Rourke massively inspired the liberal base in Texas. Turnout was something like 50% greater in Texas compared to the last midterm, a huge jump. He performed the best a Democrat running for senate has done in that state in decades, coming within a few percent of winning. He is a great speaker and very inspirational, someone with the power to get the Dems excited to vote for someone rather than just vote against Trump.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

*snip irrelevant opinions*

The fact that you so stridently disapprove of an O'Rourke/Kennedy ticket only demonstrates their threat, so, thanks?

 

[Elixir]

Meanwhile - seriously - a independent who could bleed off the most extreme right wing of the Republican party would be an even better thing than a good Dem candidate.

Yes, be a spoiler on the Right. Sort of like what Ralph Nader was in 2000 and Gary Johnson and Jill Stein were in 2016.

But the Right seems better at political strategy than the Left. At least it seems to understand Duverger's law better, or else it is better at meek obedience and following the party line. Consider all the Never Trumpers who became Trump-lovers.

Yeh, the Dems do seem to be inept at that sort of thing. But really - how hard could it be? Those extremists on the right are stupid enough to swallow virtually any bait that is dangled in front of them. Get someone like David Duke or worse into the mix as an independent, and start pimping him to the teabaggers & neocons - they'd never see it coming.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What makes O'Rourke a great candidate for President, exactly? He ran a great campaign against an asshole... and lost. Jones at least won the Senate race against the creepy mall judge in Ala Fucking Bama.

Some people seem to want to edge towards a person with charisma more than ability to lead.

HRC and Sanders need to bow out gracefully. They can back someone else, but neither of them should even consider running.

O'Rourke massively inspired the liberal base in Texas. Turnout was something like 50% greater in Texas compared to the last midterm, a huge jump.

Turnout was General Election levels in several states, including mostly ones O'Rourke wasn't running in. I think he is getting a bunch of credit that isn't due. Cruz was supposed to crush him, mainly because no one knew who this guy was. But he did well in the end, but in doing so, he did against the most hated Senator in the Senate and the most polarizing President in national history (both of the same party).

He performed the best a Democrat running for senate has done in that state in decades, coming within a few percent of winning.

And he lost to the biggest asshole in the Senate and in a year where turnout was like that of a General Election. Jones (D) won in Alabama, a state that hasn't see blue in like forever.

He is a great speaker and very inspirational, someone with the power to get the Dems excited to vote for someone rather than just vote against Trump.

And what clout will he have as a President?

- - - Updated - - -

*snip irrelevant opinions*

The fact that you so stridently disapprove of an O'Rourke/Kennedy ticket only demonstrates their threat, so, thanks?

Dude, low bar there.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Meanwhile - seriously - a independent who could bleed off the most extreme right wing of the Republican party would be an even better thing than a good Dem candidate.

Yes, be a spoiler on the Right. Sort of like what Ralph Nader was in 2000 and Gary Johnson and Jill Stein were in 2016.

But the Right seems better at political strategy than the Left. At least it seems to understand Duverger's law better, or else it is better at meek obedience and following the party line. Consider all the Never Trumpers who became Trump-lovers.

Yeh, the Dems do seem to be inept at that sort of thing. But really - how hard could it be? Those extremists on the right are stupid enough to swallow virtually any bait that is dangled in front of them. Get someone like David Duke or worse into the mix as an independent, and start pimping him to the teabaggers & neocons - they'd never see it coming.

It's--ironically--what Trump supposedly did in 2000 to push Buchanan off the Reform Party ticket (allegedly orchestrated by the Bush team, according to Robert Novak).

 

[southernhybrid]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/beto-orourke-met-with-barack-obama-as-he-ponders-a-2020-presidential-campaign/2018/12/04/fa895cc8-f7fb-11e8-8d64-4e79db33382f_story.html?utm_term=.4a2fd72153b3

Beto O’Rourke, weighing whether to mount a 2020 presidential bid, met recently with *Barack Obama at his post-
presidency offices in Washington.

The meeting, which was held Nov. 16 at the former president’s offices in Foggy Bottom, came as former Obama aides have encouraged the Democratic House member to run, seeing him as capable of the same kind of inspirational campaign that caught fire in the 2008 presidential election.

The meeting was the first sign of Obama getting personally involved in conversations with O’Rourke, who, despite his November loss in a U.S. Senate race in Texas, has triggered more recent discussion and speculation than any other candidate in the burgeoning 2020 field.

TMZ, the Hollywood-based entertainment website, is now trailing O’Rourke; he is being swamped by calls from Democratic operatives eager to work for him, and other campaigns-in-the-making are eyeing his moves closely for any signs of his intentions. O’Rourke said at an El Paso town hall last week that he was considering a run, pending discussions with his family.

I don' t know. I like the guy but I prefer someone with more experience. It's too early for me to decide who I might want as the Democratic candidate.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

*snip irrelevant opinions*

The fact that you so stridently disapprove of an O'Rourke/Kennedy ticket only demonstrates their threat, so, thanks?

Dude, low bar there.

Not really. Beta cucks all get their talking points from the same places and dutifully follow the leaders. The more stridently they object to any given point, the higher the threat level of that point.

 

[PyramidHead]

The Dems will nominate some spineless liberal centrist who doesn't stand for anything except money and nothing will really change and the planet will be fucked.

 

[untermensche]

A democracy is where people get together and decide what is needed and then elect representatives to do it.

A broken democracy is merely electing people and hoping they will do what is good.

 

[Derec]

Not really. Beta cucks all get their talking points from the same places and dutifully follow the leaders. The more stridently they object to any given point, the higher the threat level of that point.

As usual you have nothing but recycled insults.
And besides, if anything, it is you who is a "Beto cuck".

 

[Derec]

The fact that you so stridently disapprove of an O'Rourke/Kennedy ticket only demonstrates their threat, so, thanks?

The only things that would be threatened by the β-Carotene ticket are the Democrats' chances of retaking the White House.
Why do you think this is such a great ticket anyway? I do not see it.

 

[Derec]

O'Rourke massively inspired the liberal base in Texas. Turnout was something like 50% greater in Texas compared to the last midterm, a huge jump. He performed the best a Democrat running for senate has done in that state in decades, coming within a few percent of winning. He is a great speaker and very inspirational, someone with the power to get the Dems excited to vote for someone rather than just vote against Trump.

He is also out of politics. He gave up his House seat and that means he can't build his stature by for example seeking a leadership role in the House. It also meas he will have a difficult time keeping his name in the news.

And note that Beto lost his election. And that the last person who was elected president who was a mere Congressman was James Garfield, in the 19th century. And even he held committee leaderships. Beto was just a rank-and-file Congressman from a safe district.

Ok, so Beto inspires the rabid base (like Koy for example), but what else does he have?

 

[Harry Bosch]

O'Rourke massively inspired the liberal base in Texas. Turnout was something like 50% greater in Texas compared to the last midterm, a huge jump. He performed the best a Democrat running for senate has done in that state in decades, coming within a few percent of winning. He is a great speaker and very inspirational, someone with the power to get the Dems excited to vote for someone rather than just vote against Trump.

He is also out of politics. He gave up his House seat and that means he can't build his stature by for example seeking a leadership role in the House. It also meas he will have a difficult time keeping his name in the news.

And note that Beto lost his election. And that the last person who was elected president who was a mere Congressman was James Garfield, in the 19th century. And even he held committee leaderships. Beto was just a rank-and-file Congressman from a safe district.

Ok, so Beto inspires the rabid base (like Koy for example), but what else does he have?

You really think that there are "rapid base" liberals in Texas? If he can come close against an established republican in one of the most conservative states in the country, he could win a general election. Dems don't need to carry Texas. We just need to win a couple moderate states to win an election. More importantly, he's not a boring policy wonk. People want someone who is inspirational.

 

[poster]

Tulsi Gabbard looks like she's trying to pick a fight with Trump. Perhaps she's the one.

As for O'Rourk, Obama endorsing him would make it pretty clear he's a neoliberal, which, I'll note, should make him a favorite to most members who actively participate on this site.

I think O'Rourk would lose.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Why do you think this is such a great ticket anyway? I do not see it.

That's why.

 

[Elixir]

I think O'Rourk would lose.

To whom?
It is increasingly unlikely that the Shitgibbon will be on the Rethuglican ticket in 2020.

 

[Derec]

Tulsi Gabbard looks like she's trying to pick a fight with Trump. Perhaps she's the one.

Hard no on Tulsi.

Gabbard has been an outspoken opponent of the Dakota Access Pipeline in recent weeks, saying that the project threatens the drinking water of the Standing Rock Sioux and did not fully consider the impacts to culturally sensitive sites.On Thursday, she took the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives to urge President Barack Obama to halt construction of the pipeline.

She is wrong on both issues of water and "cultural sensitivity" as we have discussed at length in the marathon thread from two years ago.
That whole issue was so nonsensical. Fracking has provided US with a way to increase our domestic oil production to rival KSA and Russia while reducing our oil imports. And pipelines are the best way to move large quantities of oil.

But it gets even worse.

On Monday night, Gabbard clarified her position on the TMT. In a statement, she reflected on her first visit to Mauna Kea as a child, saying it was an uplifting and enlightening experience for her, even though she was alarmed at all the buildings, many of them telescopes, that had already been constructed there.
“I am personally opposed to building yet another telescope on Mauna Kea, but the question of whether we support or oppose TMT is too simplistic,” Gabbard said in the statement. “It’s a much bigger and more complex question — what lessons must be learned from the past in Mauna Kea’s desecration, and what is the pono path forward?”

She is anti-science because of silly creationism. She calls telescopes "desecration". Thanks, but no thanks. She is no better than Christian YECs.

That said, as far as her electoral chances, she has a similar problem to O'Rourke. She is only a congresswoman from a very safe district. Also very young.

Gabbard Faced Tough Questions In Dakota About Hawaiian Issues

As for O'Rourk, Obama endorsing him would make it pretty clear he's a neoliberal,

Oh noes!

I think O'Rourk would lose.

O'Rourke is too inexperienced at the present time and he has shown no ability to win state-wide. If he is a future Democratic presidential nominee, he needs more seasoning. 2020 is definitely not his time, except possibly as Veep.

"You’ve been had. You’ve been took. You’ve been hoodwinked. Bamboozled. Led astray. Run amok," Malcolm X

Pretty ironic coming from a guy who converted to Islam of all things. Talk about being bamboozled, hoodwinked, taken for a fool!

 

[Derec]

Why do you think this is such a great ticket anyway? I do not see it.

That's why.

As expected. You have no actual arguments to offer for your preferred ticket.