Democrats 2020

[Playball40]

Marianne Williamson, the self-help guru who spiritually advises Oprah, might just be the most interesting person running for president. Her platform highlights what a political outsider she is—her proposals include building a US Department of Peace, paying reparations for slavery, and combating the mistreatment of animals, which she believes is “damaging to the American soul.” Like the current president, she doesn’t have any prior political experience, but in many ways, she’s the anti-Trump, her campaign waged on ideas of love instead of hate. After the second CNN debate, during which she made a case that she is the best candidate “to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country,” people from Donald Trump Jr. to Ezra Klein lauded her performance.

Her platform is sort of like AOC's platform with a lot of New-Agey woo-woo.

She's as ignorant and dangerous as Trump.

 

[PyramidHead]

Marianne Williamson, the self-help guru who spiritually advises Oprah, might just be the most interesting person running for president. Her platform highlights what a political outsider she is—her proposals include building a US Department of Peace, paying reparations for slavery, and combating the mistreatment of animals, which she believes is “damaging to the American soul.” Like the current president, she doesn’t have any prior political experience, but in many ways, she’s the anti-Trump, her campaign waged on ideas of love instead of hate. After the second CNN debate, during which she made a case that she is the best candidate “to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country,” people from Donald Trump Jr. to Ezra Klein lauded her performance.

Her platform is sort of like AOC's platform with a lot of New-Agey woo-woo.

She's as ignorant and dangerous as Trump.

Marianne isn't ignorant, she has better policy positions than 90% of the Dems in the running right now and is willing to broach topics that the others aren't. I agree with her critics that framing the problems in America as related to our "soul" being "corrupted", as if Trump was elected because Pazuzu rose up from his tomb and possessed half the voters, is unscientific.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Political capital isn't what got the Civil Rights Act through Congress; massive public pressure from a mobilized base of citizens did. Social change doesn't start with politicians passing legislation, it ends there.

It is sad, but it is true. Sanders' positions most likely do have the support of the super-majority of Americans. Unfortunately, enough of that super majority can easily be persuaded to vote for the serial molester.

That's an empirical claim that has never been demonstrated and is absurd on its face.

Slander against Clinton led to people voting for the serial molester.

You know this. The candidate running for President with the least in common with Trump, policy wise, is and always has been Sanders. If there is one person on the face of the earth who supports him but "can be easily persuaded" to vote for the literal antithesis of everything he fights for, that person should not be the focus of our politics, they should be in a mental institution.

You don't understand the problem. This isn't about supporters of Sanders being swayed to Trump, it is supporters of certain planks of Sanders being swayed back to Trump because of the Soviet Union. Nuance is always lost in Political Elections, especially for Democrats.

John Kerry was a decorated war veteran. Remember how much that helped him in '04?

Kerry was exactly the type of candidate the Harry's of the world think we should be running in 2020: moderate, statesmanlike, checks all the right boxes, looks "presidential". He's a perfect example of what not to do when trying to unseat a stupid, racist, gaffe-prone Republican incumbent.

Forest and trees thing here. What was the main attack on Kerry? The Swift Boat Vets. You think for a second the right-wing won't castigate Sanders as a Soviet communist? Kerry's positions didn't matter as much as the Swift Boat slanders. Just as Sanders' positions won't matter as much as his trip to the Soviet Union.

 

[PyramidHead]

Slander against Clinton led to people voting for the serial molester.

Another empirical claim with no evidence. Slander by Clinton against Obama didn't lead to people voting for McCain. Slander against all the Republicans in the field by Trump didn't lead to people voting against Trump because they liked Jeb. The narrative that disagreements within a political party will weaken it and embolden the opposition has been a meme since the late 1800's and has always been used by entrenched power to maintain its footing and marginalize dissent.

You don't understand the problem. This isn't about supporters of Sanders being swayed to Trump, it is supporters of certain planks of Sanders being swayed back to Trump because of the Soviet Union. Nuance is always lost in Political Elections, especially for Democrats.

That's not as big a problem as you've been told everybody thinks it is, and it would be 99% the same with any Democratic nominee.

Forest and trees thing here. What was the main attack on Kerry? The Swift Boat Vets. You think for a second the right-wing won't castigate Sanders as a Soviet communist? Kerry's positions didn't matter as much as the Swift Boat slanders. Just as Sanders' positions won't matter as much as his trip to the Soviet Union.

They're castigating Kamala Harris as a Soviet communist, dude! There's never going to be a candidate who has nothing for the Republicans to criticize. When you frame an entire electoral strategy around how you think something will play out on a PR level, you're conceding that the Republicans have the authority to set the range of acceptable policy positions for a Democrat to take. I will again remind everyone that the same favor has never been granted to the Democrats by their opponents.

For liberal Democratic voters, it's seemingly never the case that the outcome of an election should prompt a re-evaluation of their approach to the next one. Whenever the politically connected, middle-of-the-road milquetoast technocrat gets defeated, it's never because they couldn't excite voters enough to come to the polls, it's always some unforeseen subterfuge or fluke. It never occurs to them that a candidate with actual enthusiastic grassroots support wouldn't be susceptible to gerrymandering, smear tactics, or foreign influence. They just keep going back to whoever has the most corporate money and seems to be the least committed to any of their positions.

Sanders is a socialist who grows in popularity despite never downplaying nor apologizing for his past support of the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, the Cuban people, his admiration for the accomplishments of the Soviet Union, his stance that Israel should not be given a blank check to treat Palestinians however they want, his unwavering support for LGBTQIA rights spanning decades of public service, or any other position the Republicans might use to tar him. He's withstood all those attacks from the Democrats already! And none of them are sticking; his supporters like him even more when they learn he invited Noam Chomsky to speak at the state house, or supported Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition against Democratic suppression. If you're looking for a candidate who has shown himself to be incorruptible and unequivocal about his purpose in political life, it's Bernie, and nobody else.

 

[Elixir]

Kerry was exactly the type of candidate the Harry's of the world think we should be running in 2020: moderate, statesmanlike, checks all the right boxes, looks "presidential". He's a perfect example of what not to do when trying to unseat a stupid, racist, gaffe-prone Republican incumbent.

I think we are all missing the actual problem that is before us. It is NOT going to be difficult to muster more votes than Trump will get, no matter who the nominee.
It is going to be difficult to get him to leave office.
We forget that his life quite literally depends on it. This nation needs to be prepared for an overt violent effort by the Commander in Chief to overthrow the electoral results and keep himself in power. He will incite a level of violence that will be used to justify his declaration of martial law, and there will be nothing done about it if it isn't dealt with in advance.
"The right candidate" will be of no use.

 

[PyramidHead]

Kerry was exactly the type of candidate the Harry's of the world think we should be running in 2020: moderate, statesmanlike, checks all the right boxes, looks "presidential". He's a perfect example of what not to do when trying to unseat a stupid, racist, gaffe-prone Republican incumbent.

I think we are all missing the actual problem that is before us. It is NOT going to be difficult to muster more votes than Trump will get, no matter who the nominee.
It is going to be difficult to get him to leave office.
We forget that his life quite literally depends on it. This nation needs to be prepared for an overt violent effort by the Commander in Chief to overthrow the electoral results and keep himself in power. He will incite a level of violence that will be used to justify his declaration of martial law, and there will be nothing done about it if it isn't dealt with in advance.
"The right candidate" will be of no use.

You're being really paranoid. When the president is declared, all of the armed forces and secret service are beholden to that person as soon as they are sworn in. Trump doesn't have any power beyond his recognition as President until he is voted out or removed from office. If he refuses to leave, security will just escort him out. Why do you say his life depends on it, as if there's any chance he will be charged with any crime after leaving office? Do you understand how the justice system actually treats rich people, especially politicians, when they do something illegal, compared to the rest of us?

 

[Treedbear]

Here's a crazy idea. Trump decides he's about to lose the election and his ass is gonna be grass under a Democratic administration. So he works out a deal with Pence to resign if he and his kids get to be pardoned.

 

[PyramidHead]

Here's a crazy idea. Trump decides he's about to lose the election and his ass is gonna be grass under a Democratic administration. So he works out a deal with Pence to resign if he and his kids get to be pardoned.

More likely: after Trump leaves office, nothing happens to him and he goes back to being a rich person who constantly commits crimes, like all the ones he committed before becoming President and was never bothered about

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Sorry to be the party pooper, but Trump only needs about 42% of the voters to win. The dems must find a ticket that can appeal to the vast majority.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Trump only needs about 28% to claim that he won - and he will.
He is counting on those 28% having more guns and being willing to use them on their neighbors.
He is almost certainly right about the first part.

People thought Tulsi Gabbard was crazy when she was happy the Mueller report was a dud because that meant it reduced change of civil war. People thought I was crazy for quoting her. Yet here we have evidence Tulsi is right.

 

[Elixir]

You're being really paranoid. When the president is declared, all of the armed forces and secret service are beholden to that person as soon as they are sworn in.

The President will not be sworn in if there is sufficient warring going on to declare martial law.

If he refuses to leave, security will just escort him out.

Not if another President has not been sworn in.

Why do you say his life depends on it, as if there's any chance he will be charged with any crime after leaving office?

I believe there are excellent chances that he will be charged with crimes, perhaps even capital crimes. But that's not what matters - what matter is whether HE believes it.

Do you understand how the justice system actually treats rich people, especially politicians, when they do something illegal, compared to the rest of us?

Oh yeah- I was born a rich white boy, and remained such until I dropped out of school, and left home and all inheritance at 17. I know what happened to me, and what happened to my siblings who went to Andover, Yale, Baylor med school etc. Believe me, PH - I know privilege and I know more than a little about lack of it (though I have retained my whiteness and all that it entails...) Living on the street for a few years can teach a person some things about that.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

More self-induced feargasms. People predicted Clinton, Bush, and Obama would all refuse to leave office. All three of them did leave, two of them gracefully.

I know, I know, orange man is different.

 

[Elixir]

I know, I know, orange man is different.

Yes. Orange man bad. Not like other bads. Worse.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I know, I know, orange man is different.

Yes. Orange man bad. Not like other bads. Worse.

When he does leave office on schedule, be it in a little over one year or a little over five, what will you say about all your self-induced feargasms then?

I very much would like to know.

Will you admit you were wrong and were winding yourself up with feargasms? Or will you forget you said all this and do it again next time a Republican is in office?

 

[Elixir]

I know, I know, orange man is different.

Yes. Orange man bad. Not like other bads. Worse.

When he does leave office on schedule, be it in a little over one year or a little over five, what will you say about all your self-induced feargasms then?

You mean IF, Jason. Unless you're from the future...
IF that happens in 2021 I will be very grateful to whatever/whoever successfully forces the issue to that point.
If it happens in 2025 I will be unsurprised, since the statute of limitations will have run out on most of his worst crimes.

I very much would like to know.

Now you know.

Will you admit you were wrong and were winding yourself up with feargasms?

I'm not afraid for myself - I'll be fine. But tell me -

The next time you hear Trump raving about rigged elections, will you admit that you have had your head in the sand - or elsewhere that the sun never shines?

I really want to know.

Or will you forget you said all this and do it again next time a Republican is in office?

Lol! Give me an Eisenhower (he'd be called a screaming socialist libtard by the likes of yourself) and I'll be happy. Try to foist another Caligula off on the American people, and my current opinion of the GOP won't change.
Any more questions, Jason?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The point isn't when he leaves office, be it 2021 or 2025. The point is you think he will refuse to go. So if he goes when he is supposed to, instead of doing something that you convinced yourself of such as ... I don't know, martial law? Dictator for life? ... will you admit you were wrong about your feargasms?

I had fearmongers tell me Clinton wouldn't go. I had fearmongers tell me Bush wouldn't go. I had fearmongers tell me Obama wouldn't go. Now I have fearmongers tell me Trump won't go. The thing about feargasms is that they are always self-induced. It is a form of masturbation.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Politesse]

Er, literally all of those are real things that exist. I wish they didn't.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I had fearmongers tell me Clinton wouldn't go. I had fearmongers tell me Bush wouldn't go. I had fearmongers tell me Obama wouldn't go. Now I have fearmongers tell me Trump won't go. The thing about feargasms is that they are always self-induced. It is a form of masturbation.

None of them, instead of giving a concession speech would work their faithful followers into a frenzy.
We’ve watched two years of unprecedented acts by this would be autocrat. What would it take to alarm you?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Er, literally all of those are real things that exist. I wish they didn't.

It seems quite frightening that we see some people that are so into trolling liberals, that they apparently are good with the nation devolving into a fascist state... as long as it be their type of fascism.

We have a rather solid report on the Russia influence on not just the US but European elections. Trump... seriously... after all the shit about Coffee Gate and Obama using steak sauce on a fucking burger, we hear the right-wing whining that people are complaining about Trump?! And yeah... splitting apart migrant families trying to enter the US legally

People like Trausti have gotten lost within the trolling.

 

[blastula]

You're fake news, Jimmy. It wasn't good old American steak sauce, it was traitorous Dijon mustard. Worst president ever.