Dictatorship is neither left nor right

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Wow does that not even come close to addressing the question.

If only a minority of scumbags supported it, what about the rest of the scumbags? And is it at all possible that at any time that scumbags were a majority?

So you think race based laws have nothing to do with centuries of race based slavery?

Irrelevant to whether or not a majority passed those laws. You think those laws magically appeared without being voted on?

 

[untermensche]

Wow does that not even come close to addressing the question.

If only a minority of scumbags supported it, what about the rest of the scumbags? And is it at all possible that at any time that scumbags were a majority?

So you think race based laws have nothing to do with centuries of race based slavery?

Irrelevant to whether or not a majority passed those laws. You think those laws magically appeared without being voted on?

Were black people allowed to freely vote?

Is that what you call democracy?

Not letting black people vote on things?

Because I'll let you in on a secret.

That isn't democracy. You have a criticism of white racists in the US but no criticism of democracy.

Democracy is a system where all races have the ability to freely vote.

Your desperate attempt to paint democracy with the racism of many Americans caused by a lack of democracy and the ability of a few to enslave others is despicable.

 

[dismal]

Irrelevant to whether or not a majority passed those laws. You think those laws magically appeared without being voted on?

Were black people allowed to freely vote?

Is that what you call democracy?

Not letting black people vote on things?

Because I'll let you in on a secret.

That isn't democracy. You have a criticism of white racists in the US but no criticism of democracy.

Democracy is a system where all races have the ability to freely vote.

Your desperate attempt to paint democracy with the racism of many Americans caused by a lack of democracy and the ability of a few to enslave others is despicable.

Black people weren't free to vote for Abe Lincoln. Or women. So I guess Abe Lincoln and the Civil War to end slavery weren't products of Democracy after all.

Whereas George Bush and the Iraq war obviously were. Just like Trump and his executive orders are Democracy in action.

 

[untermensche]

Democracy is where all people can vote.

At the start Lincoln said he fought for the union of the nation. Lincoln did not start the war. He said if the South stopped the rebellion they could keep their slaves.

Bottom line. The better the democracy the better conditions have been for black people.

 

[dismal]

Democracy is where all people can vote.

At the start Lincoln said he fought for the union of the nation. Lincoln did not start the war. He said if the South stopped the rebellion they could keep their slaves.

Why should I care about what Lincoln said? It's not like he was a product of Democracy.

Booth had it right I guess: Sic Semper Tyrannis!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Irrelevant to whether or not a majority passed those laws. You think those laws magically appeared without being voted on?

Were black people allowed to freely vote?

As much as they were able to vote for the Civil Rights Act, which you call Democracy.

Democracy is a system where all races have the ability to freely vote.

So instead of both being Democracy then neither were Democracy.

 

[untermensche]

As much as they were able to vote for the Civil Rights Act, which you call Democracy.

It was a great triumph of the democratic process.

The democratic process moved the nation from slavery to the Civil Rights Act.

That is where democracy has brought us.

Yet somehow you have a problem with democracy.

You have no point.

- - - Updated - - -

Democracy is where all people can vote.

At the start Lincoln said he fought for the union of the nation. Lincoln did not start the war. He said if the South stopped the rebellion they could keep their slaves.

Why should I care about what Lincoln said? It's not like he was a product of Democracy.

Booth had it right I guess: Sic Semper Tyrannis!

So first you use Lincoln to try to bolster your nonsense now you don't care what he said?

You're a joke.

 

[dismal]

So first you use Lincoln to try to bolster your nonsense now you don't care what he said?

I brought up the civil war. You brought up Lincoln in your efforts to decree the civil war was a democratic venture. Even though by your own standards Lincoln was not democratically elected.

You're a joke.

it only seems that way because I'm attempting to apply your own stated principles in a consistent fashion and that leads to silly results.

 

[untermensche]

Try to follow.

Lincoln was elected in a flawed democratic process that excluded women and black people.

He did not seize power.

As the democratic process improved, as more people were allowed to vote conditions for black people improved.

A flawed democratic process brought the nation from slavery to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

The more democracy the better things are for people.

Those that speak badly about democracy have nothing but dictatorship to replace it with.

 

[dismal]

Try to follow.

Lincoln was elected in a flawed democratic process that excluded women and black people.

He did not seize power.

As the democratic improved, as more people were allowed to vote conditions for black people improved.

A flawed democratic process brought the nation from slavery to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

The more democracy the better things are for people.

Those that speak badly about democracy have nothing but dictatorship to replace it with.

Lincoln got <2 million votes in a country of >30 million people. He got <40% of the popular vote. In a country that didn't let women and blacks vote.

That's still enough to declare anything he did "democracy" but Jim Crow laws were not products of Democracy?

This page suggests the Separate Car Act (which was famously upheld by the US Supreme Court in Plessy v. Ferguson) passed the Louisiana Legislature 23-6.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_Car_Act

 

[untermensche]

You have a seriously flawed democracy if you are excluding women and black people.

Lincoln was elected in a seriously flawed democracy.

The people that wrote racist laws because they were racists because a minority inflicted the nation with centuries of slavery were elected in a seriously flawed democracy.

Seriously flawed democracies can do very bad things.

But the solution is to make the democracy better.

Democracy is the only solution and the only system where "leaders" have legitimacy.

 

[dismal]

You have a seriously flawed democracy if you are excluding women and black people.

Lincoln was elected in a seriously flawed democracy.

The people that wrote racist laws because they were racists because a minority inflicted the nation with centuries of slavery were elected in a seriously flawed democracy.

Seriously flawed democracies can do very bad things.

But the solution is to make the democracy better.

Democracy is the only solution and the only system where "leaders" have legitimacy.

So, anything Lincoln did was seriously flawed from the standpoint of being Democratic, right?

George Bush and the Iraq war were much more Democratic, for example.

 

[untermensche]

Being elected in a flawed democracy does not quarentee bad results.

But it does explain bad results.

As far as GW, he used a pack of lies to justify a terrorist attack. The whole idea was the product of a tiny few psychopaths.

Democracy can be damaged when elected servants lie.

That is true. But not a criticism of democracy.

 

[dismal]

Being elected in a flawed democracy does not quarentee bad results.

But it does explain bad results.

As far as GW, he used a pack of lies to justify a terrorist attack. The whole idea was the product of a tiny few psychopaths.

Democracy can be damaged when elected servants lie.

That is true. But not a criticism of democracy.

You keep brining up irrelevancies. We are talking about what is and isn't Democratic.

Bush and the Iraq war were clearly far more Democratic than Lincoln and the Civil War.

Jim Crow laws were far more Democratic than Lincoln and the Civil War.

 

[untermensche]

Ok.

Your big problem with democracy is slavery and the problems that arose from slavery.

What other problems do you have with democracy?

Cancer?

Heart disease?

Halitosis?

And was GW actually elected?

Or was he selected by the SC?

 

[dismal]

Ok.

Your big problem with democracy is slavery and the problems that arose from slavery.

What other problems do you have with democracy?

Cancer?

Heart disease?

Halitosis?

And was GW actually elected?

Or was he selected by the SC?

Hmm, well you could try reading what people write to get some idea of what they think.

As I mentioned early on Democracy is a process not an outcome. It's people voting. The outcomes it produces can be either good or bad. I like the good outcomes and I don't like the bad ones.

I'm not the one twisting like a pretzel to conflate "Democracy" with sweetness, good and light.

 

[untermensche]

Slavery and all that came from it and all we still have because of it is not a problem with democracy.

Just like diabetes and all that comes from it is not a problem of democracy.

I know a minority can screw things up if allowed to enslave people.

But it has nothing to do with democracy.

 

[untermensche]

To think democracy is just people voting is like thinking justice is just having the police.

 

[dismal]

To think democracy is just people voting is like thinking justice is just having the police.

Democracy

Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία dēmokratía, literally "Rule by 'People'") is a system of government where the citizens exercise power by voting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

 

[untermensche]

Something about exercising power in there.

A lot more than just voting.

Voting for people that don't care what you have to say is not exercising power with your vote.