Do you think any aliens exist in the universe?

[ZiprHead]

He's good at making people think he is a better business man than he is.

I think the problem is that he can convince some people that his plan to send 1 million people to Mars by 2050 is a good plan.

Sure, it’s a great plan if the plan is to waste a gob of money to consign a million people to their deaths.

Last I heard the best estimate for life expectancy for a Mars colony was about six months.

 

[Jarhyn]

He's good at making people think he is a better business man than he is.

I think the problem is that he can convince some people that his plan to send 1 million people to Mars by 2050 is a good plan.

Sure, it’s a great plan if the plan is to waste a gob of money to consign a million people to their deaths.

Last I heard the best estimate for life expectancy for a Mars colony was about six months.

There's a lot of people who wouldn't mind being dead in 6 months if it means they'll be remembered forever, and if it means that if they beat the odds and don't die, they are essentially the nobility of a whole planet.

 

[excreationist]

I think this thing from the movie Elysium that is near Earth is way, way better than the Mars colony idea. It would almost certainly survive whatever disaster might face the Earth. Also the internet ping would be under 1 second while the ping to Mars is about 4-24 minutes. It would have full Earth gravity while Mars is 38% of the Earth's, etc.

 

[lpetrich]

Last I heard the best estimate for life expectancy for a Mars colony was about six months.

What is that estimate based on?

 

[ZiprHead]

Last I heard the best estimate for life expectancy for a Mars colony was about six months.

What is that estimate based on?

Have no idea. It was a couple years ago I read it.

 

[steve_bank]

Economic growth is constrained only by the continued availability of larger numbers, and doesn’t necessarily imply increasing use of space or resources; You can achieve economic growth with fixed population and resources, by turning your resources into things that are more valuable than they were previously.

Are you saying that you can have endless economic growth without using more space and resources? BTW that's another reason to use other planets and stars....

Certainly GDP can grow without using more space or resources. The service industry is a big part of GDP. And then poets, novelists, actors, house painters, tax preparers, programmers, etc. etc. will grow the economy if their work produces more income for them. Buy more Ebooks and art and grow the economy.

That's like arguing against the Laws Of Thermodynamics and conservation. The economy is a system of mass and energy. It can not increase from nothing.

 

[bilby]

Economic growth is constrained only by the continued availability of larger numbers, and doesn’t necessarily imply increasing use of space or resources; You can achieve economic growth with fixed population and resources, by turning your resources into things that are more valuable than they were previously.

Are you saying that you can have endless economic growth without using more space and resources? BTW that's another reason to use other planets and stars....

Certainly GDP can grow without using more space or resources. The service industry is a big part of GDP. And then poets, novelists, actors, house painters, tax preparers, programmers, etc. etc. will grow the economy if their work produces more income for them. Buy more Ebooks and art and grow the economy.

That's like arguing against the Laws Of Thermodynamics and conservation. The economy is a system of mass and energy. It can not increase from nothing.

The economy is a system of fiat currencies and opinion driven values. It can absolutely increase from nothing, and while it can use matter and energy, it requires neither.

As an example of this, the economic value of van Gogh's 'The Red Vineyard' at the beginning of 1890 was 400 Belgian Francs (about $2,000 in today's inflation adjusted US dollars).

It's current estimated worth is around $200 million.

It hasn't had any matter or energy added to it, but the economic value has increased 100,000 times.

There's no ceiling on how much value can increase; It's literally only limited by our imaginations, and by the continued availability of larger numbers.

If you think that the mass/energy of the universe limits the maximum size a number can have, then you are simply wrong. n+1 is always larger than n, for ANY n.

 

[lpetrich]

Last I heard the best estimate for life expectancy for a Mars colony was about six months.

What is that estimate based on?

Have no idea. It was a couple years ago I read it.

See if you can find out where you read it.

I find that low number rather hard to believe. What might it be based on?

I checked on ionizing radiation with  Sievert and I found that the cosmic-ray dose is not enough to be deadly over 6 months of residence. Mars has a thin atmosphere and a weak magnetic field, so its CR dose will be about that of nearby interplanetary space. Adding 6 months for getting to the planet gives 12 months total of interplanetary-level dose.

One can protect against cosmic rays with sufficient shielding. To get an equivalent of our planet's atmosphere, one must use a column density of shielding of about 10 meters of water (30 ft). That's about 3 meters of rock (10 ft). So one will have to bury one's colonies in Martian soil to that depth. That's also why that amount of shielding is impractical for an interplanetary spacecraft.

• At the Earth's surface: 2.4 mSv/yr
• At airliner cruising altitude (10 km): 24 mSv/yr
• At low Earth orbit: 160 mSv/yr
• In interplanetary space: 500 mSv/yr
• Someone surviving a 21-year dose: 3,000 mSv/yr

So radiation is not very problematic, except for big solar flares.

Another possible problem is all the labor that's necessary to maintain the colony and to grow all the food for the colonists. It's difficult to assess that, though experience with space stations (Skylab, Mir, ISS) may help.

 

[SIB]

He's good at making people think he is a better business man than he is.

I think the problem is that he can convince some people that his plan to send 1 million people to Mars by 2050 is a good plan.

Sure, it’s a great plan if the plan is to waste a gob of money to consign a million people to their deaths.

Last I heard the best estimate for life expectancy for a Mars colony was about six months.

There's a lot of people who wouldn't mind being dead in 6 months if it means they'll be remembered forever, and if it means that if they beat the odds and don't die, they are essentially the nobility of a whole planet.

Thats me ... Although I am more of a "why not use me as a test subject?" kind of thinker. I don't know why we let people force their morals on us. If I want to go and be the lab rat ... thats my choice.

The only argument I see as reliable is we can't trust the giants to use the little people in a responsible manor.

 

[Jokodo]

He's good at making people think he is a better business man than he is.

I think the problem is that he can convince some people that his plan to send 1 million people to Mars by 2050 is a good plan.

Sure, it’s a great plan if the plan is to waste a gob of money to consign a million people to their deaths.

Last I heard the best estimate for life expectancy for a Mars colony was about six months.

There's a lot of people who wouldn't mind being dead in 6 months if it means they'll be remembered forever, and if it means that if they beat the odds and don't die, they are essentially the nobility of a whole planet.

Thats me ... Although I am more of a "why not use me as a test subject?" kind of thinker. I don't know why we let people force their morals on us. If I want to go and be the lab rat ... thats my choice.

The only argument I see as reliable is we can't trust the giants to use the little people in a responsible manor.

That's an interesting question, but even more interesting is: can we trust them to use the little people in a responsible castle, or even palace.

Judging by the quality of autocorrect Big Tech is dishing out on us, probably not.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He's good at making people think he is a better business man than he is.

I think the problem is that he can convince some people that his plan to send 1 million people to Mars by 2050 is a good plan.

Sure, it’s a great plan if the plan is to waste a gob of money to consign a million people to their deaths.

Last I heard the best estimate for life expectancy for a Mars colony was about six months.

There's a lot of people who wouldn't mind being dead in 6 months if it means they'll be remembered forever, and if it means that if they beat the odds and don't die, they are essentially the nobility of a whole planet.

Thats me ... Although I am more of a "why not use me as a test subject?" kind of thinker. I don't know why we let people force their morals on us. If I want to go and be the lab rat ... thats my choice.

The only argument I see as reliable is we can't trust the giants to use the little people in a responsible manor.

How about, the issue is it isn't worth cutting corners because we need the system to be viable and sustainable. We can shove a person in a capsule and launch them to Mars today. What in the heck does that gain us... assuming it wasn't a Trump? We need to be building sustainable and valuable systems upon themselves. Just throwing something at the wall and seeing what happens isn't very useful... unless it was a Trump. And then we should repeatedly throw them up against a wall until they stick.

 

[Elixir]

Just throwing something at the wall and seeing what happens isn't very useful... unless it was a Trump. And then we should repeatedly throw them up against a wall until they stick.

If at first they don’t stick, add KETCHUP!

 

[steve_bank]

I'm wondering if anyone has had alien abduction experience, especially anal probing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm wondering if anyone has had alien abduction experience, especially anal probing.

Well, I've played Xcom. Good enough?

(Although the only abductions are the humans capturing aliens for study....)

 

[Gospel]

Hmm, several hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe and life only needs 4 to 5 basic elements. I believe life is out there and majority of it started around when ours did but they are so far away that it will take 2 billion years or more from now before we can detect signs of them. By then they'd have lived and died if we survive long enough to see it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Hmm, several hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe and life only needs 4 to 5 basic elements.

And these are some of the most common elements in the universe.

 

[pood]

Hmm, several hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe and life only needs 4 to 5 basic elements.

And these are some of the most common elements in the universe.

Except for phospherous. LIfe as we know it depends on phospherous, which is rare in the universe.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Hmm, several hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe and life only needs 4 to 5 basic elements.

And these are some of the most common elements in the universe.

Except for phospherous. LIfe as we know it depends on phospherous, which is rare in the universe.

I did say “some”. Certainly without hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen we wouldn’t have life as we know it. And life as we know it may not be the only way for life.

 

[pood]

Hmm, several hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe and life only needs 4 to 5 basic elements.

And these are some of the most common elements in the universe.

Except for phospherous. LIfe as we know it depends on phospherous, which is rare in the universe.

I did say “some”. Certainly without hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen we wouldn’t have life as we know it. And life as we know it may not be the only way for life.

It may not be, but if life as we know it is the only possible life, then the rarity of phosopherous presents a problem.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Hmm, several hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe and life only needs 4 to 5 basic elements.

And these are some of the most common elements in the universe.

Except for phospherous. LIfe as we know it depends on phospherous, which is rare in the universe.

I did say “some”. Certainly without hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen we wouldn’t have life as we know it. And life as we know it may not be the only way for life.

It may not be, but if life as we know it is the only possible life, then the rarity of phosopherous presents a problem.

It’s only a problem if it isn’t distributed evenly across worlds. If it appears at the same abundance level on every planet as it does here on Earth then I think it would be no different.