Europe submits voluntarily

[Bomb#20]

Especially with the millions of migrants going straight on to welfare. Something's gotta give. Either raise more taxes to payfor the huge welfare budget, or more austerity measures. In the long term, it will be the Europeans themselves who will pay the bill!

Stopping immigration would cost the UK money. At least, according to that notoriously pinko rag, the Financial Times. https://next.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Don't you ever check to see if something is true before saying it? Or do you enjoy being openly foolish?

That article is behind a paywall. Are you shilling for the FT? Or are you just making an argument from authority, accusing people of being openly foolish for not taking your word for it that studies show you're right?

Incidentally, whom are you arguing with who's supposedly advocating "stopping immigration"?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Especially with the millions of migrants going straight on to welfare. Something's gotta give. Either raise more taxes to payfor the huge welfare budget, or more austerity measures. In the long term, it will be the Europeans themselves who will pay the bill!

Stopping immigration would cost the UK money. At least, according to that notoriously pinko rag, the Financial Times. https://next.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Don't you ever check to see if something is true before saying it? Or do you enjoy being openly foolish?

Paywalled.

What's their reasoning?

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Stopping immigration would cost the UK money. At least, according to that notoriously pinko rag, the Financial Times. https://next.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Don't you ever check to see if something is true before saying it? Or do you enjoy being openly foolish?

That reminds me of another country:

Chart 10.14.1: Relative cost per person for 12 months in detention, 2013

http://www.ncoa.gov.au/report/appendix-vol-2/10-14-illegal-maritime-arrival-costs.html​

According to fascist logic, no cost is too high as long as it doesn't fall under "welfare".

A higher cost per person applied to a lot less people (because they don't expect to actually get there, few come) means less total cost.

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Especially with the millions of migrants going straight on to welfare. Something's gotta give. Either raise more taxes to payfor the huge welfare budget, or more austerity measures. In the long term, it will be the Europeans themselves who will pay the bill!

View attachment 7091

Both can coexist--what happens when they get benefits and work under the table?

 

[TSwizzle]

That article is behind a paywall.

The Guardian covers it;

European migrants to the UK are not a drain on Britain’s finances and pay out far more in taxes than they receive in state benefits, a new study has revealed.

The research by two leading migration economists at University College also reveals that Britain is uniquely successful, even more than Germany, in attracting the most highly skilled and highly educated migrants in Europe.

The study, the Fiscal Impact of Immigration to the UK, published in the Economic Journal, reveals that more than 60% of new migrants from western and southern Europe are now university graduates. The educational levels of east Europeans who come to Britain are also improving with 25% of recent arrivals having completed a degree compared with 24% of the UK-born workforce.

It says that European migrants made a net contribution of £20bn to UK public finances between 2000 and 2011. Those from the 15 countries which made up the EU before 2004, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain, contributed 64% – £15bn more in taxes than they received in welfare – while east European migrants contributed 12%, equivalent to £5bn more.

Guardian

The study is irrelevant to the OP but it's flawed anyway.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The Guardian covers it;

European migrants to the UK are not a drain on Britain’s finances and pay out far more in taxes than they receive in state benefits, a new study has revealed.

The research by two leading migration economists at University College also reveals that Britain is uniquely successful, even more than Germany, in attracting the most highly skilled and highly educated migrants in Europe.

The study, the Fiscal Impact of Immigration to the UK, published in the Economic Journal, reveals that more than 60% of new migrants from western and southern Europe are now university graduates. The educational levels of east Europeans who come to Britain are also improving with 25% of recent arrivals having completed a degree compared with 24% of the UK-born workforce.

It says that European migrants made a net contribution of £20bn to UK public finances between 2000 and 2011. Those from the 15 countries which made up the EU before 2004, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain, contributed 64% – £15bn more in taxes than they received in welfare – while east European migrants contributed 12%, equivalent to £5bn more.

Guardian

The study is irrelevant to the OP but it's flawed anyway.

It depends on how you wish to use it.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/telegraph-mail-headline-migrants-cost-contribution

If we look at the statistics for those non born UK people between 1995 and 2011 then the figures show a deficit of £118 billion

By the way near the end of the article it talks about record levels of employment in the UK but omits to mention that those unemployed who are on zero contracts are not classed as out of work even if they don't work.

The figure is around 800,000 if the following report is correct (2.1 percent of the UK workforce is a lot).
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rs-on-zero-hours-contracts-rises-above-800000

 

[Bomb#20]

... It says that European migrants made a net contribution of £20bn to UK public finances between 2000 and 2011. Those from the 15 countries which made up the EU before 2004, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain, contributed 64% – £15bn more in taxes than they received in welfare – while east European migrants contributed 12%, equivalent to £5bn more.

The study is irrelevant to the OP but it's flawed anyway.

You're implying that the average net contribution ratio of immigrants varies depending on where they're from. THAT'S RACIST!

 

[whichphilosophy]

... It says that European migrants made a net contribution of £20bn to UK public finances between 2000 and 2011. Those from the 15 countries which made up the EU before 2004, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain, contributed 64% – £15bn more in taxes than they received in welfare – while east European migrants contributed 12%, equivalent to £5bn more.

The study is irrelevant to the OP but it's flawed anyway.

You're implying that the average net contribution ratio of immigrants varies depending on where they're from. THAT'S RACIST!

It cannot be racist if the figures are honestly compiled and are correct per the research data.

 

[Jayjay]

It also can't be racist unless you beleive the stdy considers eastern Europeans to be of altogether different races than the EU countries prior to 2004. Sure it could be xenophobic to say that e.g. the Polish are welfare parasites (because they contribute slightly less than someone else) whereas Germans are not, but it would not be racist.

The word "racist" gets thrown around way too easily these days.

 

[Bomb#20]

THAT'S RACIST!

It cannot be racist if the figures are honestly compiled and are correct per the research data.

Sorry, did I need to put a "[/sarcasm]" on that?

 

[whichphilosophy]

It cannot be racist if the figures are honestly compiled and are correct per the research data.

Sorry, did I need to put a "[/sarcasm]" on that?

I took this too literally.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Hans Rosling debates Angelo

https://youtu.be/Oxxx03_JHlM

Correct me if I am wrong. He is saying that countries such as India and Nigeria are doing better now, then why would many be leaving as economic refugees.
At 19 secs. he seems to imply people coming from poor countries as refugees. Then we are talking about allowing 100s of millions in. Hans should visit India and then he will realize the streets are filled with people unaffected by India's economic growth. Well it has a big economy because it has a lot of people.

I think he is very educated but in some ways a little foolish given what I saw. As the Germany saying goes, "Educated fools exceed all fools".

What he is saying is that the tabloid media/racist blogs/ Angelo is lying to us. Something that isn't a problem is made to look like a problem.

If you want to know the truth you got to make some effort. Well... not that much effort. All the world Bank numbers are available on-line free of charge.

http://data.worldbank.org/

And every country has similar services. And there is plenty of good quality media if you can be bothered to find it.

The picture of today is very bright indeed. Life has never been as good for humans of today. We need to work extraordinarily little to earn a subsistence salary. It's just hard for people to understand the impact of the Green Revolution combined with the IT revolution. Just wait until the robotics revolution picks up speed. We ain't seen nothing yet.

edit: and birth rates are dropping fast. We have no reason to fear armies of undernourished and impoverished poor Africans and Arabs washing onto our shores. It may look like it is increasing. But it's not. It's dropping off, and has been for decades. We'll see the end of it within a generation.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Correct me if I am wrong. He is saying that countries such as India and Nigeria are doing better now, then why would many be leaving as economic refugees.
At 19 secs. he seems to imply people coming from poor countries as refugees. Then we are talking about allowing 100s of millions in. Hans should visit India and then he will realize the streets are filled with people unaffected by India's economic growth. Well it has a big economy because it has a lot of people.

I think he is very educated but in some ways a little foolish given what I saw. As the Germany saying goes, "Educated fools exceed all fools".

What he is saying is that the tabloid media/racist blogs/ Angelo is lying to us. Something that isn't a problem is made to look like a problem.

If you want to know the truth you got to make some effort. Well... not that much effort. All the world Bank numbers are available on-line free of charge.

http://data.worldbank.org/

And every country has similar services. And there is plenty of good quality media if you can be bothered to find it.

The picture of today is very bright indeed. Life has never been as good for humans of today. We need to work extraordinarily little to earn a subsistence salary. It's just hard for people to understand the impact of the Green Revolution combined with the IT revolution. Just wait until the robotics revolution picks up speed. We ain't seen nothing yet.

edit: and birth rates are dropping fast. We have no reason to fear armies of undernourished and impoverished poor Africans and Arabs washing onto our shores. It may look like it is increasing. But it's not. It's dropping off, and has been for decades. We'll see the end of it within a generation.

I would disagree on the development issue. There is still immense poverty around the world. There is no problem with Asylum seekers fleeing wars that we created
However nations prefer financial independence but with more access to banking and trade. I didn't see any really impoverished ones on TV. In Milan they didn't look malnourished but there was food available at Milan Central Station for them. We hope the amount of economic migrants (unless they have a work permit and contract) are refused so we can care for the Asylum seekers

 

[DrZoidberg]

What he is saying is that the tabloid media/racist blogs/ Angelo is lying to us. Something that isn't a problem is made to look like a problem.

If you want to know the truth you got to make some effort. Well... not that much effort. All the world Bank numbers are available on-line free of charge.

http://data.worldbank.org/

And every country has similar services. And there is plenty of good quality media if you can be bothered to find it.

The picture of today is very bright indeed. Life has never been as good for humans of today. We need to work extraordinarily little to earn a subsistence salary. It's just hard for people to understand the impact of the Green Revolution combined with the IT revolution. Just wait until the robotics revolution picks up speed. We ain't seen nothing yet.

edit: and birth rates are dropping fast. We have no reason to fear armies of undernourished and impoverished poor Africans and Arabs washing onto our shores. It may look like it is increasing. But it's not. It's dropping off, and has been for decades. We'll see the end of it within a generation.

I would disagree on the development issue. There is still immense poverty around the world. There is no problem with Asylum seekers fleeing wars that we created
However nations prefer financial independence but with more access to banking and trade. I didn't see any really impoverished ones on TV. In Milan they didn't look malnourished but there was food available at Milan Central Station for them. We hope the amount of economic migrants (unless they have a work permit and contract) are refused so we can care for the Asylum seekers

Ok, fine. But how about some perspective. Compare it to the 50'ies, 60'ies, 70'ies and so on. Across the board everything is better today by orders of magnitude. In the 60'ies most people thought the poverty was unsolvable. Yet here we are. Back then 2/3 of the world's people were on the extreme end of poverty. Today these people don't even make up 1/4 of the world's population. And this effect isn't slowing down. It's speeding up.

We have no reason to be gloomy today, or even worry. It'll be fine

Edit: it won't be many years now until economic differences between countries have evened out. Then the migrants won't have any incentives to come here

edit2: wars are also becoming increasingly rare. And if you look at the numbers of dead from war, that number is pathetic compared to fifty years ago. No matter if the world looks it or not, we've (humanity has) never been safer.

 

[angelo]

Especially with the millions of migrants going straight on to welfare. Something's gotta give. Either raise more taxes to payfor the huge welfare budget, or more austerity measures. In the long term, it will be the Europeans themselves who will pay the bill!

Stopping immigration would cost the UK money. At least, according to that notoriously pinko rag, the Financial Times. https://next.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Don't you ever check to see if something is true before saying it? Or do you enjoy being openly foolish?

Oh yea, i forgot they need housing and white goods which employs more people. As for paying for it, why, haven't you herad of the new money trees growing farms?

 

[TSwizzle]

The vibrant diversity in the UK just keeps getting more vibrant;

More than 1,200 cases of female genital mutilation (FGM) have been recorded in England over the past three months. Between January and March there were 1,242 newly recorded cases of the practice - including on 11 girls born in the UK - reported across the NHS in England, according to newly released data from the Health and Social Care Information Centre. At least two per cent of all new cases were girls under the age of 18. In response to the findings, the Royal College of Midwives (RCM) professional policy adviser Janet Fyle called on health workers to be “vigilant” when it comes to identifying and tackling FGM.

Despite the procedure being illegal in the UK for over 30 years there has never been a successful prosecution against anyone found to practice it.

Independent

"Vigilant" ?! I thought this was all just going to go away ? Time for another hash tag campaign.

 

[bilby]

Stopping immigration would cost the UK money. At least, according to that notoriously pinko rag, the Financial Times. https://next.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Don't you ever check to see if something is true before saying it? Or do you enjoy being openly foolish?

Oh yea, i forgot they need housing and white goods which employs more people. As for paying for it, why, haven't you herad of the new money trees growing farms?

What the fuck are you wittering on about?

Now you're not just pulling random replies from your arse; you seem to be responding to things nobody ever said.

This is just fucking pathetic. Put yourself out of our misery, and learn at least something about the topic being discussed before you post, please.

 

[angelo]

Oh yea, i forgot they need housing and white goods which employs more people. As for paying for it, why, haven't you herad of the new money trees growing farms?

What the fuck are you wittering on about?

Now you're not just pulling random replies from your arse; you seem to be responding to things nobody ever said.

This is just fucking pathetic. Put yourself out of our misery, and learn at least something about the topic being discussed before you post, please.

Who's pulling what out their arse? You posted a link to a dubious source that claims illegal immigrant's contribute to the economy. I'm pointing out that someone has to pay for hundreds of thousands claiming welfare, for perhaps decades!

 

[whichphilosophy]

What the fuck are you wittering on about?

Now you're not just pulling random replies from your arse; you seem to be responding to things nobody ever said.

This is just fucking pathetic. Put yourself out of our misery, and learn at least something about the topic being discussed before you post, please.

Who's pulling what out their arse? You posted a link to a dubious source that claims illegal immigrant's contribute to the economy. I'm pointing out that someone has to pay for hundreds of thousands claiming welfare, for perhaps decades!

I did post this before but immigration was a negative cost. Migrationwatch.uk at the time found concealed figures in one report that showed this.
This organisation has members from the left and the right.

 

[bilby]

What the fuck are you wittering on about?

Now you're not just pulling random replies from your arse; you seem to be responding to things nobody ever said.

This is just fucking pathetic. Put yourself out of our misery, and learn at least something about the topic being discussed before you post, please.

Who's pulling what out their arse? You posted a link to a dubious source that claims illegal immigrant's contribute to the economy. I'm pointing out that someone has to pay for hundreds of thousands claiming welfare, for perhaps decades!

The person who regularly quotes 'information' from jihadwatch.org, is here referring to the Financial Times, one of the UK's most respected newspapers since 1888, as 'a dubious source'.

I'm done with this bullshit; clearly nobody with a greater than double digit number of neurons is taken in by the islamophobic, xenophobic and racist claptrap that we have endured for the last 4,256 posts of this pathetic thread; So I will leave you to swap tall tales - about how horrible brown people are, and how saying so isn't really racist - amongst yourselves. Enjoy your cesspool of neurosis and paranoia.

 

[repoman]

Is this only the first time you have said this about this thread?

 

[whichphilosophy]

The government report in 2012 states displacement rate of British born workers of 160,000

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/257235/analysis-of-the-impacts.pdf
Pages 97 and 98
impacts on employment and employability of UK workers who may exit or be excluded from the labour market for born working age people rose by approximately 2.1 million. Any associated displacement of British born workers was around 160,000 of the additional 2.1 million jobs held by migrants, or about 1 in 13.


Immigration is out of control and there are plenty of British citizens (all ethinicities) who can fill most jobs. Then we must also allow for jobs given to those granted asylum.