Fauci Should Be In Prison - Senator Rand Paul

[Loren Pechtel]

It was a dangerous bioweapon that would wreak havoc on the human immune system and lungs secretly designed by Fauci and the Chinese and also it's just a flu. You don't need a mask.

Or social distancing, or hand sanitizer and the vaccine is much more dangerous than the disease...
Tom

Yup, very dangerous. The Yamagata flu strain got caught in the crossfire and was genocided.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Bio weapons research? Yes, there is probably a lot of bio weapons research going on we don't know about. Wouldn't you think that might be a little concerning to you and others to at least look into?

I'm sure there is--but China is way too smart to use something like Covid as a bioweapon. It's simply too unstable.

Or is it more comforting to trust the so called scientists who know everything? To drink the government narrative. Easier just to believe a bat in a food market caused this worldwide pandemic.

But the problem with throwing the blanket over our heads is that the same people who probably caused this pandemic are still out there. And more importantly, they have no incentive not to do the same thing again.

Why would anyone do it? And why would they want to do it again? Everyone was hurt, including China.

Bioweapons are either things that are already around (consider the Japanese bioweapon attacks on China) or something stable that has been modified to escape the existing vaccine. And in the modern world you have no hope of pulling off a successful bio strike--either it's going to blow back on your own population, or by use of your vaccine you'll show that you knew about it in advance and thus are the guilty party. The only reason a country would use them is if they were already at war.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Actually we don’t know yet where Covid came from. From what I read, it’s 50-50 that it came from a leaky lab. If you are making a positive claim, you need to support it

Just because we can't prove or disprove doesn't make it 50-50. Is there a 50% chance Russel's Teapot exists?

And there are variations on lab-leak: there's a part of the lab that's not protected against leaks. Namely, incoming research animals. Somebody rounds up some bats, ships them to the lab to see what viruses they might have. They're just captures from the environment, there's no special biohazard precautions being taken. It's certainly possible to have a lab "leak" that was somebody grabbed a bat that happened to be infected with the parent of Covid. Precautions are only taken for stuff being worked with or specimens known to be infected.

However, I think this unlikely because the transmission modeling suggests there was something running around Wuhan with an R0 around 1. People getting sick but it kept dying out. And that implies there's an ongoing infection source, not a one-off.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If anyone is interested, this podcast provides a really good deep dive of covid origin by actual experts in the topic (3 virologists who study virus origins).

In short, zoonotic origin much more likely based on the evidence, but lab leak theory not completely insane.

If I had to bet I'd put it at 90% zoonotic, 10% lab leak



It sure says a lot about the state of the world that a high information quality video like this only gets a few thousand views, while conspiracy videos with crackpot information get millions.

Actually, it doesn't mean as much as you think. Rather, those of us who care about the quality of information tend not to get it from videos unless it's something that actually needs video. Somebody who cares about science will read a web page, not watch a video.

 

[Bronzeage]

I find I've lost all patience to indulge in this kind of debate. It's become the apex first world problem.

I'm old enough to have known people who survived Polio. I remember my Polio vaccine. A sugar cube with a red dot, one per customer. I'm too old to have benefitted from the Measles, Mumps, or Chicken Pox vaccines. As they were known as "childhood diseases", I gottem all. Each one was a miserable experience. Measles hit in the summer before first grade, but Mumps and Chicken Pox, put me out of school for two weeks, each time. Fortunately, my mother was a housewife and was available for 24/7 nursing care.

I wonder what percentage of mothers in modern America these days, could take off work for two weeks for a sick child. Put that in your economic model and smoke it.

One of the advantages of living in a first world country is we no longer live in terror of Small Pox and Polio. Small Pox was eradicated in the third world because the first world saw it as the only way to keep themselves safe. Polio still exists in places. I suppose the vaccine has made us feel less defensive.

In the meantime, people like Rand Paul, beneficiary of first world living standards and not quite old enough to remember the sheer terror parents felt when there was a polio diagnosis somewhere near, wants the rest of us to forego first world medical science and take our chances like those in the third world.

 

[ZiprHead]

That gain of function research was not supported in Wuhan by the US?

There is all sorts of research going on. Using the term "gain of function" doesn't provide a mulligan to bullshit claims that have had no evidence provided.

Bio weapons research? Yes, there is probably a lot of bio weapons research going on we don't know about. Wouldn't you think that might be a little concerning to you and others to at least look into?

Or is it more comforting to trust the so called scientists who know everything? To drink the government narrative. Easier just to believe a bat in a food market caused this worldwide pandemic.

So you are going with the false dichotomy. It is a classic fallacy. Voted Fallacy of the Year in 1897, 1923, 1967, and 2004.

But the problem with throwing the blanket over our heads is that the same people who probably caused this pandemic are still out there. And more importantly, they have no incentive not to do the same thing again.

You can feel free to provide information and data to support your position. I already know you feel justified to be suspicious of the system. This was supposed to be about a specific accusation.

This is true. RVonse is trying to lay the ball in our court and wants us to prove a negative. It his responsibility to prove the point to us, not the other way around.

And Rand Paul is an idiot.

 

[ZiprHead]

That gain of function research was not supported in Wuhan by the US?

There is all sorts of research going on. Using the term "gain of function" doesn't provide a mulligan to bullshit claims that have had no evidence provided.

Bio weapons research? Yes, there is probably a lot of bio weapons research going on we don't know about. Wouldn't you think that might be a little concerning to you and others to at least look into?

Or is it more comforting to trust the so called scientists who know everything? To drink the government narrative. Easier just to believe a bat in a food market caused this worldwide pandemic.

So you are going with the false dichotomy. It is a classic fallacy. Voted Fallacy of the Year in 1897, 1923, 1967, and 2004.

But the problem with throwing the blanket over our heads is that the same people who probably caused this pandemic are still out there. And more importantly, they have no incentive not to do the same thing again.

You can feel free to provide information and data to support your position. I already know you feel justified to be suspicious of the system. This was supposed to be about a specific accusation.

Where is the false dichotomy? The virus either originated in nature or it was of man made origin. Those are 2 and only 2 choices that cover where the COVID virus originated.

On the one had there is a lot of support for Paul. Here for example: https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114270/documents/HHRG-117-GO24-20211201-SD004.pdf


But OTOH there are articles like this: https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/the-wuhan-lab-and-the-gain-of-function-disagreement/

Perlman told us that he thought Fauci’s response in the May 11 exchange was correct — that no money was given for gain-of-function research. But, he added, there’s a scientific discussion to be had on the benefits and risks of research making recombinant viruses, which involves rearranging or combining genetic material. The politicization of the issue, Perlman said, “doesn’t do anybody good.”

But even those articles are framed making it a judgement call whether or not such research should be going forward. IMO it shouldn't but in any case this shouldn't be dismissed so readily by the public whether bio research should be banned or not.

Did you actually read the two documents that you think prove your case. Please copy the parts here which you think proves that case. Thank you.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

In the meantime, people like Rand Paul, beneficiary of first world living standards and not quite old enough to remember the sheer terror parents felt when there was a polio diagnosis somewhere near, wants the rest of us to forego first world medical science and take our chances like those in the third world.

A-fucking-men! And there are plenty of idiots like Rand Paul around, unfortunately.

 

[barbos]

Rand Paul and others have been making the case this pandemic was the result of bio weapons research (gain of function).

Gain of function is done to to learn if the particular virus could become dangerous and prepare for it.

Outsourcing it to China was a dumb idea.

 

[ZiprHead]

Rand Paul and others have been making the case this pandemic was the result of bio weapons research (gain of function).

Gain of function is done to to learn if the particular virus could become dangerous and prepare for it.

Outsourcing it to China was a dumb idea.

Better than the risk of doing it in your own country.

Reminds me of the Alien movie Prometheus. The "engineers" went to an entirely different planet to develop their bioweapons.

 

[cycomiko]

That gain of function research was not supported in Wuhan by the US?

There is all sorts of research going on. Using the term "gain of function" doesn't provide a mulligan to bullshit claims that have had no evidence provided.

Bio weapons research? Yes, there is probably a lot of bio weapons research going on we don't know about. Wouldn't you think that might be a little concerning to you and others to at least look into?

Or is it more comforting to trust the so called scientists who know everything? To drink the government narrative. Easier just to believe a bat in a food market caused this worldwide pandemic.

But the problem with throwing the blanket over our heads is that the same people who probably caused this pandemic are still out there. And more importantly, they have no incentive not to do the same thing again.

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I will tend to put my trust in the "so called" experts who dedicate their life to studying something like epidemics rather than a failed comedian and conspiracy theorist (Dore) or an ophthalmologist turned tea-party politician (Paul).

i'm an aerospace engineer by education (specializing in orbital mechanics) and radar analyst/test engineer by trade. would you trust my opinion on how to build a bridge over that of a civil engineer who actually studied that shit?

it's ok to question but you gotta learn when to shut the fuck up and let the experts handle the situation. you went from, "don't trust the government" to "trust what this senator has to say".

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Um, would mind giving a little summary of what Rand Paul (Senator from Kentucky, Lunatic Party) says in the video?

On the Jimmy Dore show, no less. Not exactly a place that sane people go to gather factual information.

Who is Jimmy Dore? Not sure I even want to know.

He's the Alex Jones of the left in the U.S. Somewhat more tame than Alex Jones but still batshit.

 

[TSwizzle]

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I will tend to put my trust in the "so called" experts who dedicate their life to studying something like epidemics rather

More fool you considering the “so called scientists” have admitted they were wrong.

“Just following the science”, lol.

 

[barbos]

Better than the risk of doing it in your own country.

How is that better? Viruses don't really care for borders.

 

[barbos]

The "engineers" went to an entirely different planet to develop their bioweapons.

China is not entirely different planet.

 

[bilby]

If endangering the lives and health of Americans is a crime, then Senator Rand Paul should be in prison - and Fauci should be the star witness for the prosecution.

Every accusation a confession, as usual.

 

[barbos]

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I

To be fair, scientists are paid by the government and are under the pressure of said government, shitty government in your case.

 

[Swammerdami]

I have some questions for you, @RVonse

(1) Do you prefer the wisdom of Rand Paul over that of objective thinkers and scientists? If not, why do you listen to him? If he had some useful and valid point to make, don't you think competent objective thinkers -- surely better sources -- would provide the same "information" you get from Senator Paul? (Or are the other 99 Senators, and all the professional scientists and analysts in the pockets of Big Woke or Big Green and we are fortunate to have "the voice of one dentist^* crying in the wilderness" to listen to? * -- Is Paul really a dentist?)

Recall that Rand Paul is the one who insisted on "auditing Fort Knox." He gave the impression that he thought much of the gold was simply missing and a visual inspection would suffice. (Another "theory" is that the gold has been replaced with gold-plated tungsten. Is there a portable test that Paul could have brought when he inspected Fort Knox?)

But in fact after making special arrangements for this inspection of Fort Knox, Paul declined to participate. Perhaps he was too busy shmoozing with some donor who wanted to congratulate Paul for his "audit!"

(2) Even assuming the allegations are true, do you really think Fauci should "be in prison". How about MTG, DJT etc? They committed much more perjury than Fauci ever did: should they be in prison?

(3) Assuming the allegations are true, do you think the new viruses got out of the lab due to incompetence, or due to malice? In either case, what would be the appropriate response? Nuke Beijing?

(4) If U.S. authorities suspected that Chinese malfeasance (or even just incompetence) was responsible for the pandemic, what would appropriate response be? The U.S. does NOT publish details of enemy weaponry, espionage, cyber attacks etc. I think there are good reasons to prefer diplomatic channels over publishing so that every Tom, Dick, and Rand can opine on whether to bomb Beijing or not. I realize this is a topic on which you and I have differing views. I have respect for professional scientists, intelligence experts, etc. You trust Ken and Karen Common_People over experts, presumably out of fear that experts have been co-opted by the Deep State or Islamo-Wokeism. (I can summarize my view by asking you to consider how utterly stupid the average American is; then noting that 49% of Americans are even stupider than that. Many even fall for conspiracy theories, like Rand Paul's Fort Knox is full of tungsten wet dream.)

(5) What do YOU think about the Covid vaccines, RVonse? I think that "LP" and QOPAnon are united on this issue; both oppose vaccines in general, and mandated vaccines especially. As another Infidel pointed out, it is hilarious that the same groups (LP and QOPAnon) who think the whole Covid scare was a hoax dreamt up by Fauci and the Deep State, ALSO think that Covid was a deadly pathogen foisted on us by a malicious China regime!

This mismatch -- American crazies simultaneously thinking BOTH that Covid was a bio-weapon AND that it was all just a hoax -- reminds me of this quote from Alice in Wonderland:

[After Alice said “There’s no use trying. One can’t believe impossible things.”]

I daresay you haven't had much practice. When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I will tend to put my trust in the "so called" experts who dedicate their life to studying something like epidemics rather

More fool you considering the “so called scientists” have admitted they were wrong.

Yeah that's a few fallacies stuffed into a single sentence. Congrats!

 

[TomC]

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I will tend to put my trust in the "so called" experts who dedicate their life to studying something like epidemics rather

More fool you considering the “so called scientists” have admitted they were wrong.

“Just following the science”, lol.

As opposed to who? The geniuses who told Trump "It's no worse than a cold"? Or "We'll have the country open by Easter"? Or "Ivermectin will fix it"?
Think they were smarter than Fauci?
Tom