Female vs Male Psychology

[Will Wiley]

You seem to think that I am denying the existence of biological factors, but that is rubbish; I simply reject your claim that biology is the dominant factor, because that has not yet been established by science.

How would one establish that?

 

[barbos]

That's merely your opinion.

The manner of your response is there for anyone to see. As I said, I expected better from you.

You should start expecting better from yourself first

 

[barbos]

You claimed I missed Lippa's work, but Lippa's work is consistent with the position that I have held constantly, that children are influenced by both biological and social factors. You seem to think that I am denying the existence of biological factors, but that is rubbish; I simply reject your claim that biology is the dominant factor, because that has not yet been established by science.

In other words you reject the argument and evidence provided in that video.
Don't bother repeating that video agrees with you and that I misinterpret everybody there.

 

[barbos]

Thought it'd make for an interesting thread to compare and contrast the nature of men and women.

- are men and women actually different?
- if so how?

Before getting into it myself and throwing the thread down certain paths, I'll leave it open to anyone who wants to comment.

I have several friends who have worked in pre-school and daycare centers for over 20 years. They have observed hundreds of children from infant to four years old. They all say there is a distinct difference in boys and girls, but it does not appear until the time the child starts to crawl and is able to interact with other children. By the time the child can stand and take a few steps, most boys are quite distinct from the girls, and vice versa.

So true, and multiple scientific studies observed the same.

There is always some element of nature vs. nurture in this kind of discussion. It may be impossible to treat a baby boy exactly like a baby girl, so there in no effective control group for comparison. Even so, the observations are amazingly consistent, year after year.

It is quite possible, with trans-gender children, multiple cases show that nurture is pretty much powerless, girl with boy's brain will behave like a boy and vice versa.

Whatever differences there are in male and female psychology, the differences show at a very early age, which means there is most likely a physical difference from birth.

Exactly! And experiments with 1 day old children demonstrate it quite well.

Whatever this difference maybe, we have yet to find an identifiable sexual differentiation between male and female brains. There is a difference in the size of certain brain structures, but the size is the only visible difference. There is a large overlap, such that it's not possible to identify a disembodied brain as male or female with certainty, by looking at the structure.

Yeah there is maybe 10% overlap.

 

[Juma]

Yeah there is maybe 10% overlap.

The truth is that the overlap is 100%. What is shown is that there is a difference in the mean.

 

[barbos]

Yeah there is maybe 10% overlap.

The truth is that the overlap is 100%. What is shown is that there is a difference in the mean.

And that ladies and gentlemen is an example of mathematical impossibility.

 

[Juma]

The truth is that the overlap is 100%. What is shown is that there is a difference in the mean.

And that ladies and gentlemen is an example of mathematical impossibility.

Barbos, barbos, are you totally ignorant of the properties of normal distributions?

 

[barbos]

And that ladies and gentlemen is an example of mathematical impossibility.

Barbos, barbos, are you totally ignorant of the properties of normal distributions?

It's not me, it's you.

 

[Juma]

Barbos, barbos, are you totally ignorant of the properties of normal distributions?

It's not me, it's you.

Then you may know that the domain of distribution is unbounded.

 

[barbos]

It's not me, it's you.

Then you may know that the domain of distribution is unbounded.

yes, and Swedish education really sucks.

 

[Juma]

Then you may know that the domain of distribution is unbounded.

yes, and Swedish education really sucks.

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

 

[RavenSky]

No.

The thing to do is encourage your child (and children and people of all ages) to pursue their own interests and explore and develop their own talents WITHOUT making a judgment about whether more boys or more girls like this or that or are good at that or are perceived as being good or bad at this or that and therefore if you don't follow the path into the machine, your life will be harder and sad and lonely and you probably aren't really a girl or a boy anyway.

Rage against the machine.

I don't see the judgement part in my post, I see parents teaching their children about the world. I also added a.. "if those things don't interest you, that's ok too".

Maybe it would have been better stated like this:

"Be whatever you want to be, but I might be able to help you understand who you are"

For instance.. I was an introvert for my entire life. My parents didn't notice, and even now I'm not sure they totally understand what an introvert is. I went into teaching at 23 which was a horrible decision for my personality type, and if my parents could have stepped in and suggested it might have been a poor choice based on who I actually am (notice this is congruent with the argument you're making), it could have been infinitely helpful and it might have saved me a lot of time and energy.

Going back to the male/female stereotypes, of course a parent should be supportive in their kids decisions/interests, but if reality can serve as a guide in any capacity, why not leverage that? I'm not saying a parent should dictate life path to their kids, I'm saying understanding women or men has the potential to help a boy or girl understand themselves. Given it's obviously not an absolute guide.

Your personal example does does fit your suggested parenting approach on the basis of gender stereotypes. If anything, your personal anecdote argues against such stereotyping. You say that you were/are an introvert. Males are stereotypically assumed to be extroverts. Your parents failure to see that you were an introvert may have stemmed from their own Pre-conceived ideas of how males act.

Either way, suggesting careers on the basis of gender stereotypes is exactly the opposite of what you say you would have liked from your own parents - that they see YOU as the individual you were, and guide you based on your individual personality.

 

[thebeave]

No.

The thing to do is encourage your child (and children and people of all ages) to pursue their own interests and explore and develop their own talents WITHOUT making a judgment about whether more boys or more girls like this or that or are good at that or are perceived as being good or bad at this or that and therefore if you don't follow the path into the machine, your life will be harder and sad and lonely and you probably aren't really a girl or a boy anyway.

Rage against the machine.

I don't see the judgement part in my post, I see parents teaching their children about the world. I also added a.. "if those things don't interest you, that's ok too".

Maybe it would have been better stated like this:

"Be whatever you want to be, but I might be able to help you understand who you are"

For instance.. I was an introvert for my entire life. My parents didn't notice, and even now I'm not sure they totally understand what an introvert is. I went into teaching at 23 which was a horrible decision for my personality type, and if my parents could have stepped in and suggested it might have been a poor choice based on who I actually am (notice this is congruent with the argument you're making), it could have been infinitely helpful and it might have saved me a lot of time and energy.

Going back to the male/female stereotypes, of course a parent should be supportive in their kids decisions/interests, but if reality can serve as a guide in any capacity, why not leverage that? I'm not saying a parent should dictate life path to their kids, I'm saying understanding women or men has the potential to help a boy or girl understand themselves. Given it's obviously not an absolute guide.

It seems sort of odd that you more or less are blaming your parents for "not saving you from yourself". I'm introverted also, and while I had some uncertainty about what I wanted as a career (though I did know it would be in the hard science, computer science or engineering fields) I definitely knew that being a teacher would be a poor choice for an introvert like me. That was a no brainer. I just don't see how you could not know that about yourself. Like someone deciding to become a mechanic, when they know they have no mechanical abilities.

 

[beero1000]

I don't see the judgement part in my post, I see parents teaching their children about the world. I also added a.. "if those things don't interest you, that's ok too".

Maybe it would have been better stated like this:

"Be whatever you want to be, but I might be able to help you understand who you are"

For instance.. I was an introvert for my entire life. My parents didn't notice, and even now I'm not sure they totally understand what an introvert is. I went into teaching at 23 which was a horrible decision for my personality type, and if my parents could have stepped in and suggested it might have been a poor choice based on who I actually am (notice this is congruent with the argument you're making), it could have been infinitely helpful and it might have saved me a lot of time and energy.

Going back to the male/female stereotypes, of course a parent should be supportive in their kids decisions/interests, but if reality can serve as a guide in any capacity, why not leverage that? I'm not saying a parent should dictate life path to their kids, I'm saying understanding women or men has the potential to help a boy or girl understand themselves. Given it's obviously not an absolute guide.

It seems sort of odd that you more or less are blaming your parents for "not saving you from yourself". I'm introverted also, and while I had some uncertainty about what I wanted as a career (though I did know it would be in the hard science, computer science or engineering fields) I definitely knew that being a teacher would be a poor choice for an introvert like me. That was a no brainer. I just don't see how you could not know that about yourself. Like someone deciding to become a mechanic, when they know they have no mechanical abilities.

I'm not sure that's so obviously a non-introvert activity. I'm an introvert and I enjoy teaching. I wouldn't handle a heavy teaching load well, but relatively short lectures a few times a week are fun, even if I need to take some time to recharge afterwards.

 

[beero1000]

yes, and Swedish education really sucks.

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

That's basically all he started with, so I'd be worried if he was running out...

 

[barbos]

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

That's basically all he started with, so I'd be worried if he was running out...

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

- - - Updated - - -

yes, and Swedish education really sucks.

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

I am not paid to give lecture to people like you. I pointed out your bullshit, that's all I can do for you.

 

[Juma]

That's basically all he started with, so I'd be worried if he was running out...

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

- - - Updated - - -

yes, and Swedish education really sucks.

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

I am not paid to give lecture to people like you. I pointed out your bullshit, that's all I can do for you.

Aha! So you ARE paid for the crap you actually write here...

 

[barbos]

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

- - - Updated - - -

yes, and Swedish education really sucks.

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

I am not paid to give lecture to people like you. I pointed out your bullshit, that's all I can do for you.

Aha! So you ARE paid for the crap you actually write here...

How did you come to this conclusion?
Crap is what you post here. What I post is 100% correct.

 

[Juma]

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

- - - Updated - - -

yes, and Swedish education really sucks.

So that is all you have left? Vague indirect insults?

I am not paid to give lecture to people like you. I pointed out your bullshit, that's all I can do for you.

Aha! So you ARE paid for the crap you actually write here...

How did you come to this conclusion?

Ha! Got you!

 

[fromderinside]

Yeah there is maybe 10% overlap.

The truth is that the overlap is 100%. What is shown is that there is a difference in the mean.

 Kurtosis anyone?