Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

[tupac chopra]

In fact, Ms. Mosby was so hasty it appears she locked up two completely innocent officers. She charged Freddie Gray’s arresting officers with “false imprisonment” because she said the knife that Gray had on him was legal. In fact, as The Sun reported, the Police Task Force found it to be illegal after all. It was Ms. Mosby who had no probable cause to lock the arresting officers up, an injustice she could have easily avoided by taking her time.

Whoops.

Well they would say that, now. But what was it that made the knife illegal? Are the police just claiming that now to try to make themselves look good?

 

[Toni]

Whoops.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe.

Ouch.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html

Just in case anybody missed it: the above is from an opinion piece.

Which is why I posted this but you cut it out:

Page Croyder spent 21 years in the Baltimore state's attorneys office, most recently as a deputy state's attorney.

I just hit: reply with quote. Didn't notice anything didn't get included. Not that it makes any difference.


Why didn't you post the other opinion piece from the Baltimore Sun? The one about wanting a federal investigation?

 

[Trausti]

Whoops.

Well they would say that, now. But what was it that made the knife illegal? Are the police just claiming that now to try to make themselves look good?

As I understand it, it violated a city ordinance.

A city ordinance says any knife with an automatic spring or other device to open and close the blade is illegal. State law says a knife is illegal if it opens automatically by pushing a button, spring or other device in the handle.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7047d123bc24454eb32229cbc9cdda22/officer-charged-gray-death-contends-arrest-was-legal

 

[Trausti]

Why didn't you post the other opinion piece from the Baltimore Sun? The one about wanting a federal investigation?

I'm not aware of that one. Feel free to post. Was it written by a former career prosecutor like the one I posted?

 

[ZiprHead]

In fact, Ms. Mosby was so hasty it appears she locked up two completely innocent officers. She charged Freddie Gray’s arresting officers with “false imprisonment” because she said the knife that Gray had on him was legal. In fact, as The Sun reported, the Police Task Force found it to be illegal after all. It was Ms. Mosby who had no probable cause to lock the arresting officers up, an injustice she could have easily avoided by taking her time.

Whoops.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe.

Ouch.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html

I've carried a similar knife for many years. Never had a worry about it being considered illegal and it certainly isn't a switchblade.

Can someone post the pertinent legal standard for knives in Baltimore?

I still remember Andy Rooney of 60 Minutes saying something to the effect of no self-respecting man doesn't carry a pocket knife.

 

[ZiprHead]

Well they would say that, now. But what was it that made the knife illegal? Are the police just claiming that now to try to make themselves look good?

As I understand it, it violated a city ordinance.

A city ordinance says any knife with an automatic spring or other device to open and close the blade is illegal. State law says a knife is illegal if it opens automatically by pushing a button, spring or other device in the handle.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7047d123bc24454eb32229cbc9cdda22/officer-charged-gray-death-contends-arrest-was-legal

As I said above, I've carried a similar knife for years. There is no spring loading in that knife.

 

[Trausti]

As I understand it, it violated a city ordinance.

A city ordinance says any knife with an automatic spring or other device to open and close the blade is illegal. State law says a knife is illegal if it opens automatically by pushing a button, spring or other device in the handle.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7047d123bc24454eb32229cbc9cdda22/officer-charged-gray-death-contends-arrest-was-legal

As I said above, I've carried a similar knife for years. There is no spring loading in that knife.

From the article I posted:

Marc Zayon, Nero's attorney, argues in his motion that the knife in Gray's pocket — described in charging documents as "a spring assisted, one hand operated knife" — is illegal under both Baltimore's switchblade ordinance and state law.

So the prosecutor represented to the court that it was a spring assisted knife. The prosecutor apparently wrote her case against the bike cops out of court.

 

[ZiprHead]

As I understand it, it violated a city ordinance.

A city ordinance says any knife with an automatic spring or other device to open and close the blade is illegal. State law says a knife is illegal if it opens automatically by pushing a button, spring or other device in the handle.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7047d123bc24454eb32229cbc9cdda22/officer-charged-gray-death-contends-arrest-was-legal

As I said above, I've carried a similar knife for years. There is no spring loading in that knife.

From the article I posted:

Marc Zayon, Nero's attorney, argues in his motion that the knife in Gray's pocket — described in charging documents as "a spring assisted, one hand operated knife" — is illegal under both Baltimore's switchblade ordinance and state law.

So the prosecutor represented to the court that it was a spring assisted knife. The prosecutor apparently wrote her case against the bike cops out of court.

My knife is one hand operation but does not have a spring assist. None is needed. A simple flick of the thumb opens the knife.

 

[Arctish]

In fact, Ms. Mosby was so hasty it appears she locked up two completely innocent officers. She charged Freddie Gray’s arresting officers with “false imprisonment” because she said the knife that Gray had on him was legal. In fact, as The Sun reported, the Police Task Force found it to be illegal after all. It was Ms. Mosby who had no probable cause to lock the arresting officers up, an injustice she could have easily avoided by taking her time.

Whoops.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe.

Ouch.

<link>

The author of that article has left out a couple of pertinent facts. Without resorting to lawyer jokes, let me just say there's been a deliberate misrepresentation and shading of the truth in that opinion piece.

All of the officers charged with false imprisonment have also been charges with assault and misconduct in office.

The most serious charges were brought against Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr., who was driving the van that carried Mr. Gray to a police station after his April 12 arrest. Along with involuntary manslaughter, Officer Goodson, 45, was charged with “second-degree depraved heart murder,” which means indifference to human life....


...Despite repeated stops to check on Mr. Gray, the van driver, Officer Goodson, and other officers never belted him in, she said, at times leaving him face-down on the van floor with his hands behind him. Though there has been speculation that the police intentionally gave Mr. Gray a “rough ride,” intended to slam him against the metal sides of the van, Ms. Mosby did not refer to that possibility. She charged only Officer Goodson with second-degree murder, the most serious crime facing the six officers; he was also accused of manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office.

Mr. Gray’s condition deteriorated, she said, as officers repeatedly ignored his pleas for medical attention and ignored obvious signs that he was in distress. At one point, she said, when officers tried to check on him, Mr. Gray was unresponsive, yet no action was taken. He died of his injuries a week later.

Lt. Brian Rice was charged with manslaughter, assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment. Officer William G. Porter and Sgt. Alicia White were charged with manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office. Officers Edward M. Nero and Garrett E. Miller were charged with assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
<link>

So even if the knife was illegal under city ordinance or state law (which is not clear at all), there's still the matter of failing to follow procedure and secure Mr. Gray's seatbelt, failing to provide medical assistance upon his request, and failing to provide assistance when Gray was found to be unresponsive. IOW, while the evidence of false imprisonment is uncertain, there's more than enough evidence of misconduct in office to charge those officers. The author of that opinion piece has made a good attempt to sweep that inconvenient fact under the carpet but it's still pretty obvious.

 

[RavenSky]

Whoops.

Well they would say that, now. But what was it that made the knife illegal? Are the police just claiming that now to try to make themselves look good?

And whether the knife was "legal" or "illegal", I would still like to know why they chased him down and searched him in the first place. Did they have X-ray vision to see inside his pockets?

 

[Derec]

And whether the knife was "legal" or "illegal", I would still like to know why they chased him down and searched him in the first place. Did they have X-ray vision to see inside his pockets?

He took off running as soon as he clocked the police (dumbass move). That constitutes reasonable suspicion to stop and search him.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

And whether the knife was "legal" or "illegal", I would still like to know why they chased him down and searched him in the first place. Did they have X-ray vision to see inside his pockets?

He took off running as soon as he clocked the police (dumbass move). That constitutes reasonable suspicion to stop and search him.

What is the legal probable cause for this particular search?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Well they would say that, now. But what was it that made the knife illegal? Are the police just claiming that now to try to make themselves look good?

As I understand it, it violated a city ordinance.

A city ordinance says any knife with an automatic spring or other device to open and close the blade is illegal. State law says a knife is illegal if it opens automatically by pushing a button, spring or other device in the handle.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7047d123bc24454eb32229cbc9cdda22/officer-charged-gray-death-contends-arrest-was-legal

He's tried to clarify it on Reason.com, but it looks like the Baltimore law says, "commonly known as a switchblade".

...which does violate a Baltimore code." The relevant ordinance makes it illegal to possess "any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife." Source: http://reason.com/blog/2015/05/06/cops-and-prosecutors-disagree-about-whet#.bip3u9:BRhi

Nobody had produced the make and model of the knife. Is a folding butter knife with a locking leaf spring? Or a sawed off black switchblade with automatic stabbing action and infared scope? Until we know the model this is only more wild-ass speculation.

 

[dismal]

I don't think it matters a whit whether the knife was illegal or legal. That's something for a jury to decide.

The cops are allowed to arrest people for things that turn out later not to be illegal. The prosecution would need to show the cops did not act in good faith, not that the knife turned out to be legal.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Whoops.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe.

Ouch.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html

Just in case anybody missed it: the above is from an opinion piece.

And that somehow means it got the legality of the knife wrong?

 

[RavenSky]

And whether the knife was "legal" or "illegal", I would still like to know why they chased him down and searched him in the first place. Did they have X-ray vision to see inside his pockets?

He took off running as soon as he clocked the police (dumbass move). That constitutes reasonable suspicion to stop and search him.

1. You are ok with the idea that police can stop and search you because you are running?
2. What was their probable cause for chasing and searching him?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Whoops.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe.

Ouch.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html

Just in case anybody missed it: the above is from an opinion piece.

And that somehow means it got the legality of the knife wrong?

It means that the author is more likely to use non-factual arguments in presenting the case. For example, he doesn't even describe the knife in question.

 

[RavenSky]

Whoops.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe.

Ouch.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html

Just in case anybody missed it: the above is from an opinion piece.

And that somehow means it got the legality of the knife wrong?

It means that the opinion piece is speculating as much as everyone else, and therefore should not be taken as the facts it has been presented as.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think it matters a whit whether the knife was illegal or legal. That's something for a jury to decide.

The cops are allowed to arrest people for things that turn out later not to be illegal. The prosecution would need to show the cops did not act in good faith, not that the knife turned out to be legal.

True. As long as the cops roughed up the guy because they thought he had an illegal knife on him, it is kosher.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't think it matters a whit whether the knife was illegal or legal. That's something for a jury to decide.

The cops are allowed to arrest people for things that turn out later not to be illegal. The prosecution would need to show the cops did not act in good faith, not that the knife turned out to be legal.

I agree with this. The knife thing isn't really an issue. It's the whole "killing him while he's in their custody" thing that's important.