Fuck unity

[GenesisNemesis]

For the longest time I've been wondering what it would take for right wing authoritarian followers to realize what they support and to have the humanity to change their minds. When fascism has reached the point that it is in the US, it usually takes massive atrocity and social upheaval if not war for enablers to say, "Oh..." and then hide or try to pretend they never supported a tyrant.

But now I'm wondering what it's going to take for liberal, left wing, progressive, people of supposed humane values and principles who would never in a million years support fascists or fascist policies to actually stand up against fascism and for those humane principles. I think, like the fascist followers themselves, there are some progressive people of democratic values who will have to face widespread atrocity and a complete dissolution of democratic institutions before they stop appeasing bullies and get a spine.

In Germany, things that Trump and the GOP have been doing the last five years would get not only the individuals but the whole party banned from participating in politics. Here, and apparently in some other democracies as well, we treat them like criminality and bigotry are just "different perspectives," worthy of allowing them to enact laws and make policy decisions for states and for the whole country.

I guess we'll find out soon enough just what it will take for such liberals to stop bending over for liars and criminals because, Biden win or no, Trump out or no, right wing authoritarianism is not going away. They have no conscience or principles to stop them and will push and push until stopped or until they destroy all of us in some way.

China is doing something like that

BloombergSubscribe
Politics
China Requires ‘Patriotism’ for Hong Kong Lawmakers, SCMP Says
By Karen Leigh, Kari Soo Lindberg, and Alfred Liu
November 10, 2020, 4:00 PM EST
Updated on November 10, 2020, 11:24 PM EST
Top legislative body approved provision, newspaper says
Opposition earlier threatened to resign en masse over measure
Hong Kong Marks 23rd Anniversary of City's Return To Chinese Rule as China Enacts Sweeping Powers
Photographer: Roy Liu/Bloomberg
China passed a measure requiring Hong Kong lawmakers to be “patriots,” the South China Morning Post reported, a move to curb debate in a democratic institution that has endured more than two decades after the former British colony’s return.

China’s top legislative body approved the provision to make patriotism a requirement for Hong Kong lawmakers behind closed doors Wednesday in Beijing, the newspaper reported, citing a person it didn’t identify. Earlier reports about the proposal have alarmed the 20 opposition lawmakers on the city’s 70-seat Legislative Council, with the bloc threatening Monday to resign if any of their own were disqualified.

Hmmm... Looks like something your Daddy Trump wants too.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/17/9141...education-commission-a-largely-political-move

 

[TSwizzle]

IMO what the US needs is a good hard dose of Dick Liberalism - which is the name i've given to my own personal brand of progressivism: unapologetic, aggressive, demanding, unbending in the face of opposition.

conservatives get to have their views and be dicks about it, insisting that they are right and that everyone should go along with it.
liberals whimper and show their anuses in subservience and ask if it's OK if we would maybe do a tiny little bit of the 'moving forward with the progress of human civilization' thing, and it's just pathetic.

you get free health care and fuck you if you don't like it.
people who's lifestyle does nothing to you are also people and you don't get to oppress them. blow me.
capitalism is inherently and necessarily predatory and against the basic concept of advancement of our species and must be curbed and regulated. eat an entire burlap sack of moist dicks if you don't like it.
"on demand without apology or explanation" is the only morally acceptable position to have on abortion.

The fascism is strong in this one.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

"Always obey police no matter what!" "But it's the libruls who are the fascists!"

 

[Politesse]

IMO what the US needs is a good hard dose of Dick Liberalism - which is the name i've given to my own personal brand of progressivism: unapologetic, aggressive, demanding, unbending in the face of opposition.

conservatives get to have their views and be dicks about it, insisting that they are right and that everyone should go along with it.
liberals whimper and show their anuses in subservience and ask if it's OK if we would maybe do a tiny little bit of the 'moving forward with the progress of human civilization' thing, and it's just pathetic.

you get free health care and fuck you if you don't like it.
people who's lifestyle does nothing to you are also people and you don't get to oppress them. blow me.
capitalism is inherently and necessarily predatory and against the basic concept of advancement of our species and must be curbed and regulated. eat an entire burlap sack of moist dicks if you don't like it.
"on demand without apology or explanation" is the only morally acceptable position to have on abortion.

The fascism is strong in this one.

That tu quoque bullshit isn't going to work forever.

 

[TomC]

IMO what the US needs is a good hard dose of Dick Liberalism - which is the name i've given to my own personal brand of progressivism: unapologetic, aggressive, demanding, unbending in the face of opposition.

conservatives get to have their views and be dicks about it, insisting that they are right and that everyone should go along with it.
liberals whimper and show their anuses in subservience and ask if it's OK if we would maybe do a tiny little bit of the 'moving forward with the progress of human civilization' thing, and it's just pathetic.

you get free health care and fuck you if you don't like it.
people who's lifestyle does nothing to you are also people and you don't get to oppress them. blow me.
capitalism is inherently and necessarily predatory and against the basic concept of advancement of our species and must be curbed and regulated. eat an entire burlap sack of moist dicks if you don't like it.
"on demand without apology or explanation" is the only morally acceptable position to have on abortion.

The fascism is strong in this one.

That tu quoque bullshit isn't going to work forever.

I'll live with it for awhile if it prevents the Trump/TeaParty coup unfolding this week.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

IMO what the US needs is a good hard dose of Dick Liberalism - which is the name i've given to my own personal brand of progressivism: unapologetic, aggressive, demanding, unbending in the face of opposition.

conservatives get to have their views and be dicks about it, insisting that they are right and that everyone should go along with it.
liberals whimper and show their anuses in subservience and ask if it's OK if we would maybe do a tiny little bit of the 'moving forward with the progress of human civilization' thing, and it's just pathetic.

you get free health care and fuck you if you don't like it.
people who's lifestyle does nothing to you are also people and you don't get to oppress them. blow me.
capitalism is inherently and necessarily predatory and against the basic concept of advancement of our species and must be curbed and regulated. eat an entire burlap sack of moist dicks if you don't like it.
"on demand without apology or explanation" is the only morally acceptable position to have on abortion.

The fascism is strong in this one.

Ah yes, those damn fascists demanding that everyone be given "rights", and "infrastructure" and "freedoms".

 

[Worldtraveller]

Fair, but if your goal is to minimize their impact then insulting them day after day for the next four years won't help. This kind of divisiveness is exactly why your Conservatives are becoming increasingly entrenched in their Conservatism - liberals look like an alien group of elites who are constantly calling them morons.

Why would they change their minds, when the group they'd be supporting constantly others them?

Othering is the very foundation of American conservatism and the Trump base. Bigotry and anti-intellectualism has defined that ideology for well over a century. All that has changed is that the Civil Rights movement, GOP's Southern Strategy, and Christian Right movement all lead to a realignment where those with that ideology became more and more concentrated under one party. It's utter nonsense to suggest the causality is reversed and that their intolerant bigotries are a reaction to being "othered", or that their anti-intellectualism is a reaction to being insulted by "elites". They attacked "the elites" from the start and 99% of the vitriol comes from their direction. I'm not advocating that we waste time calling them names. I'm saying we shouldn't give a shit about appeasing them or if they are angry and opposed to what Biden does. As they proved yet again this week, they are only happy when others are disenfranchised and harmed, so any society worth fighting for is one they will fight against. Thus, we shouldn't pretend we are on the same side with the same values and goals. We most definitely are not and they pose the greatest obstacles to what our goals should be.

Sure, I can accept all that. My point is that your behaviour needs to actually lead to the betterment of your country, and not more fracture. Pushing too hard to the left probably won't accomplish that. Insults won't accomplish that.

Here's the thing. Our actions of promoting stronger social safety nets, improving income equality, and all the other stuff that the progressive/dem try to do will help them. These things will help the mouthbreathing knuckle draggers way WAY more than the tax break for the fucking millionaires that was passed by the fucking gop.

The deplorables (and they are that) are like taking a wild animal to a vet. It's for their own good, but they really are too ignorant to understand that. Unless and until the US actually does something that would arguably violate parts of the first amendment and clamps down on blatant propaganda, though, there's no point, because that's what the dysfunctional morons trump calls his base listen to.

Unless and until they come to table offering apologies and wanting to work to make things better for everyone we should just continue making things better for them, whether they like it or not.

This conciliatory thing is very VERY much like an abusive spouse tactic of making the abused apologize. FUCK. THAT.

 

[bilby]

You want electoral candidates disqualified based on political affliations.

Yeah, that's what's going on here.

I want them disqualified for breaking laws and regulations, for lying to the American people, and for undermining democracy. Can you recognize the difference, repoman?

Shooting random citizens in the streets is illegal. The cops will arrest you, and the courts will lock you up, maybe even execute you.

Even if you are a member of the 'Shoot Random Citizens in the Streets Party", whose platform is the shooting of random citizens in the streets, your attempt to have your illegal activity condoned, or at least tolerated, on the basis that failure to do so would be a politically partisan act, will probably fail.

You can't just hide behind a shield of political affiliation (or for that matter, religious affiliation), and get away with murder.

Well, perhaps you can, but you shouldn't be able to.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Now, tRumpsuckers are not turning away. They are pretending instead that it wasn't, that it isn't still there, and that we are insane for saying we ever even saw it the first time, waiting for our backs to be turned so they can bust it out again.

It's early yet. Remember, when Germans admitted their error Hitler was dead, their cities were in ruins and they were starving.

Oh well then.

I guess we have something to look forward to.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Sure, I can accept all that. My point is that your behaviour needs to actually lead to the betterment of your country, and not more fracture. Pushing too hard to the left probably won't accomplish that. Insults won't accomplish that.

Here's the thing. Our actions of promoting stronger social safety nets, improving income equality, and all the other stuff that the progressive/dem try to do will help them. These things will help the mouthbreathing knuckle draggers way WAY more than the tax break for the fucking millionaires that was passed by the fucking gop.

The deplorables (and they are that) are like taking a wild animal to a vet. It's for their own good, but they really are too ignorant to understand that. Unless and until the US actually does something that would arguably violate parts of the first amendment and clamps down on blatant propaganda, though, there's no point, because that's what the dysfunctional morons trump calls his base listen to.

Unless and until they come to table offering apologies and wanting to work to make things better for everyone we should just continue making things better for them, whether they like it or not.

This conciliatory thing is very VERY much like an abusive spouse tactic of making the abused apologize. FUCK. THAT.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/sen...e-taxes-for-half-of-us-tax-policy-center.html

...
President Donald Trump on Monday promised a tax overhaul by Christmas, even as a nonpartisan tax analysis group said the Senate package would leave half of taxpayers facing higher levies by 2027.
Speaking before a Cabinet meeting, Trump said, “We’re going to give the American people a huge tax cut for Christmas — hopefully that will be a great, big, beautiful Christmas present.”
Trump spoke as the Tax Policy Center said that while all income groups would see tax reductions, on average, under the Senate bill in 2019, 9 percent of taxpayers would pay higher taxes that year than under current law. By 2027, that proportion would grow to 50 percent, largely because the legislation’s personal tax cuts expire in 2026, which Republicans did to curb budget deficits the bill would create.
...

The MAGAts are going to get screwed by their own messiah. Dumbasses!

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well there's the thing - if you claim to be a supporter of social progress, and and that you're an overall good, helpful person - but your actions have negative consequences and are counter to those goals, does that not cause some sense of cognitive dissonance? What is your motive for insulting Trump supporters? What are you trying to accomplish?

I know you're trying to make me feel bad about insulting abusers who claim I don't deserve to exist, but I'm not falling for it.

Sometimes my actions (punching nazis), have negative immediate consequences towards my goals (peaceful coexistence between persons).

Overall, however, the immediate negative consequences (a fight!) do not stand in violation of my principles, as removing an irritant, however irritating the act itself may be, is generally preferable, much like lancing a boil or painful blemish.

This is more of that "paradox of tolerance" bullshit wherein some bad faith asshole enjoins us to tolerate the intolerant, failing to understand that when someone is intolerant, they have abandoned the principles that are the basis for protection of the system.

The problem is that to you, everyone to your slight right is a Nazi.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Sure, I can accept all that. My point is that your behaviour needs to actually lead to the betterment of your country, and not more fracture. Pushing too hard to the left probably won't accomplish that. Insults won't accomplish that.

The Dems having been pushing to the center for decades, while the GOP has gone more and more to the extreme right. Obama was closer to Reagan than Trump was, yet the right's response was racist attacks and dishonest fear mongering to fuel more extremism. Almost everything Obama did including ACA was a compromise with the right that did not adhere to the liberal principles his base elected him to enact. This proves that Dems efforts at unity and compromise does nothing to quell the fracture being driven by right, so pulling back to the left is the only recourse. Note that doesn't mean socialism, b/c contrary to the lies of the right, nothing on the DNC agenda is socialism, and the majority of those who voted Biden do not want actual socialism, even those who say they do b/c they share the same wrong notions as the right that the very much capitalist countries of Scandanavia and Europe are socialist just b/c they have regulations and a strong safety net.

Trump and the right consistently prove that they are insulted by objective reality, so it isn't possible to be honest and rational without them feeling "attacked". Our goal should not be to insult them, but should also not be to avoid claimed insult by avoiding reality.

I keep seeing these themes! How in the world was Obama more like Reagan than Trump was? Obama increased access for millions to get health care, regulated wall street, secured world agreements to tackle climate change, ended combat missions in Iraq and Afganistan, saved Chrysler and GM, recognized same sex marriage, eliminated federal torture policies, established links to Cuba, established rules to regulate and lower carbon emissions, protected dreamers; and etc. I could go on for hours. How does any of this agree with either what Reagan or Trump wanted?

The fact is that the dems have gone gone left. But the country isn't following us all the way. 46% of the country thinks that the dems have gone too far. If anyone thinks that if the left with a mere 53% of the vote can impose their entire agenda in the age of gerrymandering, low dem turn out, and the electoral college: they are deluded.

 

[prideandfall]

The fascism is strong in this one.

i see the national past time of conservatives not knowing what words mean is alive and well.

 

[Szuchow]

IMO what the US needs is a good hard dose of Dick Liberalism - which is the name i've given to my own personal brand of progressivism: unapologetic, aggressive, demanding, unbending in the face of opposition.

conservatives get to have their views and be dicks about it, insisting that they are right and that everyone should go along with it.
liberals whimper and show their anuses in subservience and ask if it's OK if we would maybe do a tiny little bit of the 'moving forward with the progress of human civilization' thing, and it's just pathetic.

you get free health care and fuck you if you don't like it.
people who's lifestyle does nothing to you are also people and you don't get to oppress them. blow me.
capitalism is inherently and necessarily predatory and against the basic concept of advancement of our species and must be curbed and regulated. eat an entire burlap sack of moist dicks if you don't like it.
"on demand without apology or explanation" is the only morally acceptable position to have on abortion.

The fascism is strong in this one.

Ah yes, those damn fascists demanding that everyone be given "rights", and "infrastructure" and "freedoms".

Truly fascists villainy know no bounds. What will they demand next? Socialized healthcare?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Ah yes, those damn fascists demanding that everyone be given "rights", and "infrastructure" and "freedoms".

Truly fascists villainy know no bounds. What will they demand next? Socialized healthcare?

If we on the left don't need a majority anymore, why stop there? Let's open it up! How about helicopters for all? This could be a lot of fun.

 

[Szuchow]

Ah yes, those damn fascists demanding that everyone be given "rights", and "infrastructure" and "freedoms".

Truly fascists villainy know no bounds. What will they demand next? Socialized healthcare?

If we on the left don't need a majority anymore, why stop there? Let's open it up! How about helicopters for all? This could be a lot of fun.

Why stop at helicopters? Aircraft carriers would be even better.

 

[Harry Bosch]

If we on the left don't need a majority anymore, why stop there? Let's open it up! How about helicopters for all? This could be a lot of fun.

Why stop at helicopters? Aircraft carriers would be even better.

I'm not a fan of the water! Love flying though

 

[Szuchow]

If we on the left don't need a majority anymore, why stop there? Let's open it up! How about helicopters for all? This could be a lot of fun.

Why stop at helicopters? Aircraft carriers would be even better.

I'm not a fan of the water! Love flying though

Nice to know.

 

[Keith&Co.]

If we on the left don't need a majority anymore, why stop there? Let's open it up! How about helicopters for all? This could be a lot of fun.

Why stop at helicopters? Aircraft carriers would be even better.

I'm not a fan of the water! Love flying though

So, everyone gets a helo, one carrier per household.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'm not a fan of the water! Love flying though

So, everyone gets a helo, one carrier per household.

Why?? If we don't need "unity" how about helo for everyone self identifying as a democrat. To hell with those republicans. Nothing for those meanies!