• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

To denote when two or more threads have been merged
Doctors, journalists, teachers, academics and other professionals are also being killed at wholly unprecedented rates. To date, Israel has killed: over 311 doctors, nurses and other health workers, including doctors and ambulance drivers killed on duty;103 journalists, amounting to over one per day, and more than 73 per cent of the total number of journalists and media workers killed globally in 2023; 40 civil defence workers — responsible for helping to dig victims out of the rubble — killed while on duty; and over 209 teachers and educational staff. 144 United Nations employees have also been killed, the “highest number of aid workers killed in UN history in such a short time”.
"Experts are beginning to warn that the numbers of Palestinians dying as a result of disease and hunger, could already be outstripping violent deaths caused by Israeli army assaults."

Then going into more gory detail about how murderous and destructive the attacks are, like destroying cultural facilities like schools and universities.

"D. Expressions of Genocidal Intent against the Palestinian People by Israeli State Officials and Others"

South Africa's legal team was careful to discuss that, thus showing the Israeli leadership cannot plausibly claim negligence.
 
President Isaac Herzog of Israel: “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. It’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved. It’s absolutely not true. … and we will fight until we break their backbone.”

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant: imposing a complete siege on Gaza. No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.” He has “released all the restraints” on Israeli troops' actions, and that “Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything. If it doesn’t take one day, it will take a week. It will take weeks or even months, we will reach all places.”

Energy & Infrastructure Minister Israel Katz: “All the civilian population in Gaza is ordered to leave immediately. We will win.
They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world.” and “Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home. Humanitarianism for humanitarianism. And no one will preach us morality.”

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich: “[w]e need to deal a blow that hasn’t been seen in 50 years and take down Gaza.”

Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu: “The north of the Gaza Strip, more beautiful than ever. Everything is blown up and flattened, simply a pleasure for the eyes … We must talk about the day after. In my mind, we will hand over lots to all those who fought for Gaza over the years and to those evicted from Gush Katif” a former Israeli settlement in the Gaza Strip.

Also, “[w]e wouldn’t hand the Nazis humanitarian aid”, and “there is no such thing as uninvolved civilians in Gaza” even once advocating a nuclear attack.

Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter: “[w]e are now actually rolling out the Gaza Nakba”

Deputy Speaker and Foreign Affairs and Security Committee member Nissim Vaturi: “[n]ow we all have one common goal — erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth. Those who are unable will be replaced.”

Former Head of the Israeli National Security Council Giora Eiland: “[C]reate such a huge pressure on Gaza, that Gaza will become an area where people cannot live. People cannot live, until Hamas is destroyed, which means that Israel not only stops to supply energy, diesel, water, food … as we did in the last twenty years … but we should prevent any possible assistance by others, and to create in Gaza such a terrible, unbearable situation, that can last weeks and months”

First-Nakba Deir Yassin massacre veteran Ezra Yachin: “Be triumphant and finish them off and don’t leave anyone behind. Erase the memory of them. Erase them, their families, mothers and children. These animals can no longer live . . . Every Jew with a weapon should go out and kill them. If you have an Arab neighbour, don't wait, go to his home and shoot him . . . We want to invade, not like before, we want to enter and destroy what’s in front of us, and destroy houses, then destroy the one after it. With all of our forces, complete destruction, enter and destroy. As you can see, we will witness things we’ve never dreamed of. Let them drop bombs on them and erase them.”

Knesset members have asserted that “there are no uninvolved”, that “[t]here are no innocents in Gaza”, that “the killers of the women and children should not be separated from the citizens of Gaza”, that “the children of Gaza have brought this upon themselves”, and that “there should be one sentence for everyone there — death”.

Along with numerous other such genocidal statements in Israeli civil society.

Molly Ivins - Wikiquote - "Many people did not care for Pat Buchanan's speech; it probably sounded better in the original German." Something that may apply here also.
 
"E. Recognition of Israel’s genocidal intent against Palestinians" - "As set out above, numerous States have rightly recognised Israel’s statements in relation to Gaza as demonstrating genocidal intent. That assessment is shared by a significant number of United Nations experts who have repeatedly warned since at least mid-October 2023 that the Palestinian people are at grave risk of genocide by Israel."

"Based on the above, as well as the further evidence to be presented over the course of these proceedings, South Africa considers that the conduct of Israel — through its State organs, State agents, and other persons and entities acting on its instructions or under its direction, control or influence — in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, is in violation of its obligations under the Genocide Convention, including Articles I, III, IV, V and VI, read in conjunction with Article II."

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

Israel denies wrongdoing in relation to its military activities in Gaza and is resisting all calls by South Africa and by the broader international community to prevent and cease the commission of genocide. Instead of ceasing violations of the Genocide Convention, preventing such violations and punishing their perpetrators, Israel has continued, escalated and threatened further to escalate its military campaign. It is also destroying evidence of its wrongdoing: the mass demolition and clearance of vast areas of Gaza, and the prevention of the return of internally displaced Palestinians to their homes, raises serious concerns about the destruction of evidence and its effect on future investigation into crimes, including the gravest crimes under international law. Israel’s killing of large numbers of Palestinian journalists and media workers in Gaza — at least 82 to date, often alongside multiple members of their families — coupled with its attacks on Gaza’s telecommunications network, a hampering scrutiny of Israel’s actions against Palestinians in Gaza. So too is Israel’s continuing refusal to allow access to Gaza by fact-finders and foreign journalists, other than a limited number of journalists permitted to embed themselves with the Israeli army subject to restrictions and censorship of their reports. Palestinian NGOs and human rights defenders, themselves at risk of attack by the Israeli army, are not able to document in real time the unremitting acts of genocide and other violations of international law being committed by Israel.
 
Among the requested actions, "The State of Israel shall immediately suspend its military operations in and against Gaza." and shall stop doing things that cause
(a) killing members of the group;
(b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to the members of the group;
(c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and
(d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
and
(a) the expulsion and forced displacement from their homes;
(b) the deprivation of:
(i) access to adequate food and water;
(ii) access to humanitarian assistance, including access to adequate fuel, shelter, clothes, hygiene and sanitation;
(iii) medical supplies and assistance; and
(c) the destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza.
Also,
(7) The State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide; to that end, the State of Israel shall not act to deny or otherwise restrict access by fact-finding missions, international mandates and other bodies to Gaza to assist in ensuring the preservation and retention of said evidence.
and
(9) The State of Israel shall refrain from any action and shall ensure that no action is taken which might aggravate or extend the dispute before the Court or make it more difficult to resolve.
 
Top UN Court to Hear Genocide Case Against Israel Next Week
"This submission is meritless, counterproductive and completely without any basis in fact whatsoever," White House National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said during a briefing.

U.S. State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said separately that from a U.S. assessment, "We have not at this point seen acts that constitute genocide."

"Genocide is, of course, a heinous atrocity," Miller told reporters. "Those are allegations that should not make be made lightly."
What do they consider genocide?
Israel rejected the charge, with Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Lior Haiat writing on X, "Israel rejects with disgust the blood libel spread by South Africa and its application" to the ICJ. "Blood libel" is a reference to ancient antisemitic conspiracies.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that Israel displayed "unparalleled morality" in the Gaza war as he, too, dismissed South Africa's charge.
Read the full application bringing genocide charges against Israel at UN top court | PBS NewsHour
An Israeli official said the country, which has a history of ignoring international tribunals, decided to defend itself for several reasons. Among them are Israel’s role in promoting the original genocide convention after the Holocaust and its belief that “we have a strong case.” He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was discussing behind-the-scenes deliberations.
 
Home | INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE with The Republic of South Africa institutes proceedings against the State of Israel and requests the Court to indicate provisional measures - 192-20231229-pre-01-00-en.pdf and Request for the indication of provisional measures Public hearings to be held on Thursday 11 and Friday 12 January 2024 - 192-20240103-pre-01-00-en.pdf

You’ll Never Guess Who Bibi Wants at Hague Genocide Hearing. Actually, You Will. | The New Republic - "Benjamin Netanyahu seems to have landed on a representative for Israel at the Gaza genocide hearing."
As a defendant, Israel is entitled to pick one judge to the 15-member court—and Netanyahu wants that person to be Dershowitz, Axios journalist Barak Ravid reported Tuesday. When Ravid contacted Dershowitz for confirmation, the former Trump attorney said he “can’t comment about it at this time.”

Dershowitz would be a highly fitting representative, though. A longtime friend and advisor of Netanyahu, Dershowitz has defended Israeli settlements, downplayed the horrors of civilian casualties, and attacked liberal Jewish groups.

He has also helped defend Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, and Donald Trump.
 
Blasts kill nearly 100 at slain commander Soleimani's memorial; Iran vows revenge


https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...anistan-branch-behind-iran-blasts-2024-01-05/
US intelligence confirms Islamic State's Afghanistan branch behind Iran blasts
WASHINGTON, Jan 5 (Reuters) - Communications intercepts collected by the United States confirmed that Islamic State’s (ISIS) Afghanistan-based branch carried out twin bombings in Iran that killed nearly 100 people, two sources familiar with the intelligence told Reuters on Friday.

"The intelligence is clear-cut and indisputable," one source said.

That source and a second, both of whom requested anonymity to discuss the sensitive issue, said the intelligence comprised communications intercepts, without providing further details.
 
Two days after Hamas's recent bloody attack on Israel,
STATEMENT: Rep. Ocasio-Cortez on Violence in Israel and Palestine | Representative Ocasio-Cortez
October 9, 2023
Press Release

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Today, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (NY-14) released a statement on the violence in Israel and Palestine.

"Today is devastating for all those seeking a lasting peace and respect for human rights in Israel and Palestine. I condemn Hamas’ attack in the strongest possible terms. No child and family should ever endure this kind of violence and fear, and this violence will not solve the ongoing oppression and occupation in the region. An immediate ceasefire and de-escalation is urgently needed to save lives.”

Later at her site, 24 Members of Congress Call on Biden Administration to Establish a Ceasefire, Protect Children in the Gaza Strip | Representative Ocasio-Cortez - November 15, 2023 - including several "Squad" members in addition to AOC.
 
H.Res.590 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives regarding calling on the President to direct the United States Representative to the United Nations to use the voice, vote, and influence of the United States to immediately promote the establishment of an appropriate regional or international justice mechanism through the United Nations and United Nations General Assembly to investigate and prosecute possible war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violations of internationally recognized human rights stemming from the conflict in Syria, and for other purposes. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Tlaib, Rashida [D-MI-12] (Introduced 07/13/2023)

It got only one cosponsor, the orther original one, Ilhan Omar.


Rashida Tlaib says she 'struggles' with prospect of uprooting West Bank settlements | The Times of Israel - 13 May 2023, 6:20 pm - "Michigan Democrat, a vocal critic of Israel, likens potential evacuation of Israeli communities to Nakba, says Palestinians deserve ‘restorative justice’"

This was in an event where RT appeared with some Jewish high-school students over Zoom.
During her appearance, one of the students asked her about Israeli West Bank settlements, which much of the international community considers illegal. In response, the Michigan representative invoked the “Nakba,” the term meaning “catastrophe” that Palestinians use to describe their displacement during and after the 1948 war.

“Some settlements have been there for so long, right?” she said. “And just the idea around taking families that — that’s been their home — it’s just completely uprooting, forcibly displacing. It’s something I struggle with because, like, we’re doing it all over again, right? This happened during the Nakba.”

...
“Some generations now don’t know anything but that community, that is in the eyes of the United Nations and many others and agreements, it’s illegal,” she said. “So I don’t know how we do it.”
RT wants a one-state solution with both sides together.
“I’m idealistic as well, and people think I’m a little corny, but I know I just think we can all live together equally,” she said later in the 35-minute talk. “I really believe we can have a state where all of our Jewish neighbors across the country can feel safe.”

Two days later, she introduced this resolution:
H.Res.388 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Recognizing the ongoing Nakba and Palestine refugees rights. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Tlaib, Rashida [D-MI-12] (Introduced 05/10/2023) - "This resolution expresses the sense of Congress that it is the policy of the United States to recognize the Palestinian Nakba and support Palestinian refugees' rights. It also states that it is the policy of the United States to denounce threats and condemn certain actions by Israel against the Palestinian people."

Its cosponsors, all original: AOC, Cori Bush, Jamaal Bowman, Ilhan Omar, Betty McCollum D-MN-04

Back to that Zoom call.
She rejected the view, held by many large Jewish organizations, that anti-Zionism is antisemitism, and likened Israel’s current practices to apartheid and to the Jim Crow South — analogies also rejected by most pro-Israel organizations.

“Separate but equal didn’t work in our country,” she said, referring to the various proposals that would establish an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel. “We tried and it didn’t work. Segregation made it more violent for Black neighbors.”

But she also described a vision of Israeli settlers and Palestinians living in harmony. She noted that her grandmother, whose hardships she frequently cites in criticizing Israel, lives “feet” away from a settlement. She recalled playing basketball in the neighboring settlement as a child when she visited her.

“I remember the head of the village who knew some of the folks there,” she said. “And it was beautiful, in that sense of, like, being like neighbors.”
 
Congressional Republicans had no less than 5 resolutions censuring Rashida Tlaib.

H.Res.772 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Censuring Representative Rashida Tlaib. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
No cosponsors

H.Res.807 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Censuring Representative Rashida Tlaib for antisemitic activity, sympathizing with terrorist organizations, and leading an insurrection at the United States Capitol Complex. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Greene, Marjorie Taylor [R-GA-14] (Introduced 10/24/2023)
9 cosponsors, 5 original

H.Res.829 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Censuring Representative Rashida Tlaib for antisemitic activity, sympathizing with terrorist organizations, and leading an insurrection at the United States Capitol Complex. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Greene, Marjorie Taylor [R-GA-14] (Introduced 11/01/2023)
No cosponsors

Roll Call 559 | Bill Number: H. Res. 829
On Motion to Table
R: Y 23, N 186, nv 11
D: Y 199, nv 13
Ttl: Y 222, N 186, nv 24
So they put aside that resolution. Interesting that several Republicans voted with the Democrats.

H.Res.841 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Censuring Representative Rashida Tlaib and condemning antisemitism. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Miller, Max L. [R-OH-7] (Introduced 11/02/2023)
13 cosponsors, 7 original
MTG and Lauren Boebert agree on this one.

H.Res.845 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Censuring Representative Rashida Tlaib for promoting false narratives regarding the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack on Israel and for calling for the destruction of the state of Israel. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. McCormick, Richard [R-GA-6] (Introduced 11/06/2023)
12 cosponsors, 3 original

Roll Call 608 | Bill Number: H. Res. 845
On Motion to Table
R: Y 6, N 212, nv 3
D: Y 202, N 1, P 1, nv 8
Ttl: Y 208, N 213, P 1, nv 11
Six R's voted to put aside this resolution, 1 D voted to go ahead with it, and 1 D voted "Present".

Roll Call 622 | Bill Number: H. Res. 845
On Agreeing to the Resolution
R: Y 212, N 4, P 1, nv 3
D: Y 22, N 184, P 3, nv 3
Ttl: Y 234, N 188, P 4, nv 6


Objecting to RT calling Israel an apartheid state and back in 2020, tweeting “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”. She herself says that that means peaceful coexistence, but many people interpret that as like "Drive them into the sea!"

MTG claimed that RT led an insurrection in a Congressional office building on October 18.

The "false narrative" was that it was Israel that bombed the Al-Ahli hospital on October 17, claiming instead that it was a wayward Palestinian missile.
 
I think that the worst that Rashida Tlaib is guilty of is naive idealism. H.Res.610 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Censuring Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - she deserves to be not just censured, but expelled from Congress.


Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib on X: "I am the only Palestinian American serving in Congress, ..." / X
I am the only Palestinian American serving in Congress, and my perspective is needed here now more than ever. I will not be silenced and I will not let anyone distort my words.

I’m from Detroit, where I learned to speak truth to power, even if my voice shakes.
Sitting near her I recognize Jamie Raskin, Cori Bush, Ayanna Pressley, Summer Lee, Pramila Jayapal, Ilhan Omar, Jamaal Bowman, and Barbara Lee.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "It is not lost ..." / X
It is not lost on anyone how many offensive, violent, and racist things people regularly hear members of Congress say, yet virtually the only one that gets censured for her political speech also happens to be the only Palestinian American.

It does not reflect well. At all.

The Recount on X: "“This resolution ....” – ..." / X
“This resolution is about one thing and one thing only: the punishment of speech.”

– Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD) speaks in opposition to a resolution to censure Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI)

Black History 365 on X: "I have resided in Michigan districts 12 and 13. I couldn't be more proud of #RashidaTlaib, our rep from district 13 for representing HUMANITY. It is horrifying watching 22 Dems stab her in the back to go against the will of the people. Our democracy has been betrayed for pay. (pic link)" / X
Then counting up "Pro-Israel money used to censure Rashida Tlaib" - $6,134,701
 
"“Separate but equal didn’t work in our country,” she said, referring to the various proposals that would establish an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel. “We tried and it didn’t work. Segregation made it more violent for Black neighbors.”

Here's the thing.
I see the Jewish Zionists as more like the black folks moving to white towns and neighborhoods, in the face of huge objections from the dominant culture. Objections to the point of violence.

What's generally referred to as "apartheid" is Zionists telling their dominant neighbors "Stay out of my yard and stop attacking my children or I'll kick your ass."
And then having to do so because the neighbors kept attacking their yard and children. Which is what IDF is doing right now in Gaza.
Tom
 
"“Separate but equal didn’t work in our country,” she said, referring to the various proposals that would establish an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel. “We tried and it didn’t work. Segregation made it more violent for Black neighbors.”

Here's the thing.
I see the Jewish Zionists as more like the black folks moving to white towns and neighborhoods, in the face of huge objections from the dominant culture. Objections to the point of violence.

What's generally referred to as "apartheid" is Zionists telling their dominant neighbors "Stay out of my yard and stop attacking my children or I'll kick your ass."
And then having to do so because the neighbors kept attacking their yard and children. Which is what IDF is doing right now in Gaza.
Tom
And the Zionist settlers in the West Bank with the tacit approval of the Isreali gov't.

Your analogy breaks down because black folks who faced violent opposition did not use violence against innocent civilians.
 

The UN should never have been in the tunnels to be abandoning them. That is, if the UN wasn't supporting the terrorists.
Is it possible the UN was checking on the status of remaining hostages?
Hamas never let the Red Cross have any access to the hostages. Why would you expect the UN to have access?[/

Note, however, that the jobs of everyone working for the UN in Gaza hinge on the conflict continuing. Peace would end their jobs.
Peace would end Netanhayu’s job and his radical coalition’s power - something you don’t seem to think matters. Your selective invocation of a rent seeking explanation reflrcts on you more than anyone’s motivations.
Netanyahu would only be out of a job if it became apparent that peace was permanent. And he would be out of a job by then anyway.

And I note that you didn't even address the issue with the Red Cross.
 
Also also how disproportionately murderous and injurious Israel's response to the Great March of Return is. Like one Israeli soldier admitting that he shot “42 knees in one day”. Also shooting children and health workers and people with disabilities, despite lack of evidence that they posed an imminent threat.
1) Any evidence this isn't disinformation?

2) Israel has had a policy of shooting anyone trying to cross the border fence regardless of appearance. And they try to wound rather than kill. A dead infiltrator brings considerable money for their family, a maimed one brings less and brings the burden.

3) Hamas uses children and the like for military-adjacent stuff. And anyone crossing the border is considered hostile regardless of appearance.

Also the nastiness of Israeli settlers in the West Bank. "Palestinians in the West Bank are also subjected to routine violence by Israeli soldiers and armed settlers." and "Since 7 October 2023, a further 295 Palestinians, including 77 children, have been killed by Israeli soldiers and settlers, and a further 3,803, including 576 children, wounded — many seriously."
And how many Israelis? Just because the West Bank isn't engaging in large scale conflict doesn't mean there aren't attacks. That's part of what permitted 10/7--Gaza was being peaceful, the West Bank was being dangerous, they shifted troops to the threat. And Israel recently found an infiltration tunnel from the West Bank.

"57 hostages are reported to have been killed in Israeli bombardments of Gaza; a further three hostages are confirmed to have been shot dead by Israeli soldiers in Gaza." Some surviving hostages have stated that they feared being killed by Israeli bombs.
It's not like Israel was getting them back by any other means. And note that family members tend to prefer their relatives dead than Hamas captives--they consider the latter a worse fate.

"As of 8 December 2023, only one rescue vehicle was reportedly operational in the whole of Gaza, with survivors forced to try to dig for survivors with their bare hands."
Well, duh--rescue vehicles are used by Hamas, they get hit. Hamas wants it that way.

Palestinians in Gaza have been killed in their homes, in places where they sought shelter, in hospitals, in UNWRA schools, in churches, in mosques, and as they tried to find food and water for their families. They have been killed if they failed to evacuate, in the places to which they fled, and even while they attempted to flee along Israeli declared “safe routes”. Reports are multiplying of Israeli soldiers performing summary executions, including of multiple members of the same family — men, women and older people. One such account is the reported execution in Gaza City of at least 11 male members of the Annan family and their relatives — boys and men, said to have been separated out by Israeli soldiers and shot in front of their family — before the women and children were then attacked. There are also reports of unarmed people — including Israeli hostages — being shot dead on sight, despite posing no threat, including while waving white flags. Attacks on Palestinian homes and residential blocks account for a significant number of the dead, with Israel reportedly using Artificial Intelligence (‘AI’) to generate up to 100 bombing targets per day.
Very deceptive reporting.

I don't know about AI but 100 targets/day is actually below what we have been seeing. And even by Hamas numbers it's less than one dead per bomb. To drop a bomb in an urban area and not kill anyone is impressive. And it makes it very clear that Israel is primarily shooting at things.
 
Back
Top Bottom