Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Gospel]

Can't wait to see all the surprise Pikachu faces when there's instability in Egypt.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Top UN Court to Hear Genocide Case Against Israel Next Week

UN is getting less relevant by the day. Where is the genocide case against Hamas or Iran? Let's not lose track of who started this war, or why.

For that matter, where's the case against Boko Haram? Or Morocco (for their actions in Western Sahara)? Or Sudan? (The partition hasn't ended the genocide.)

All of those make Gaza pale in comparison.

UN International Court of Justice deals with contentious issues between states. Boko Haram is not a state. Morocco’s actions are an internal matter. So are Sudan’s.

Hence none of them would fall under the UN’s ICJ purview.

Western Sahara is approximately equivalent to Gaza in status. And since the partition in Sudan the genocide has continued even though it does involve two states.

I do agree that Boko Haram is basically internal. (Although, as always, there must be a funding source.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

anyone crossing the border is considered hostile regardless of appearance

See, you think that that's a justification for the Israeli behaviour; But in fact, it's the very behaviour you need (somehow) to try to justify.

Refusing to treat individual people as individuals is morally indefensible.

It is impossible to distinguish combatants from civilians by appearance. Thus they are distinguished by action--crossing the border. This isn't people blindly stumbling across it, there's a fence they actually climb.

Your unwillingness to accept the unpleasant reality doesn't make it go away.

BTW, it seems Israel recently killed a few "reporters". That were in the same vehicle as a drone operator they were actually targeting. Monumental stupidity on their part or were they not neutrals??

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you now want us all to pretend Hamas isn't a government?

The U.S. government (your country) does not recognize Hamas as a legitimate government entity. Instead, it classifies Hamas as a terrorist organization. Hamas was elected in 2007 2006 and subsequently seized power by force in the Gaza Strip. Therefore, it seems you're the one pretending that Hamas is the legitimate government.

Edit: Note, I agree with most of the other things you've said.
Edit 2: Correction. Hamas was actually elected in 2006. In 2007, they engaged in violent conflicts with their political rivals, which culminated in their takeover of the Gaza Strip.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

They are an illegitimate government.

For practical purposes Gaza is occupied by Iran with an Iranian puppet regime in charge.

 

[laughing dog]

Top UN Court to Hear Genocide Case Against Israel Next Week

UN is getting less relevant by the day. Where is the genocide case against Hamas or Iran? Let's not lose track of who started this war, or why.

For that matter, where's the case against Boko Haram? Or Morocco (for their actions in Western Sahara)? Or Sudan? (The partition hasn't ended the genocide.)

All of those make Gaza pale in comparison.

UN International Court of Justice deals with contentious issues between states. Boko Haram is not a state. Morocco’s actions are an internal matter. So are Sudan’s.

Hence none of them would fall under the UN’s ICJ purview.

Western Sahara is approximately equivalent to Gaza in status. And since the partition in Sudan the genocide has continued even though it does involve two states.

Approximately doesn’t count. The genocide in Sudan is caused by fighting between rival internal factions.

So whether we like it ir not, neither situation falls under ICJ purview.

I do agree that Boko Haram is basically internal. (Although, as always, there must be a funding source.)

Not relevant for ICJ jurisdiction.

 

[Gospel]

Do you now want us all to pretend Hamas isn't a government?

The U.S. government (your country) does not recognize Hamas as a legitimate government entity. Instead, it classifies Hamas as a terrorist organization. Hamas was elected in 2007 2006 and subsequently seized power by force in the Gaza Strip. Therefore, it seems you're the one pretending that Hamas is the legitimate government.

Edit: Note, I agree with most of the other things you've said.
Edit 2: Correction. Hamas was actually elected in 2006. In 2007, they engaged in violent conflicts with their political rivals, which culminated in their takeover of the Gaza Strip.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

They are an illegitimate government.

For practical purposes Gaza is occupied by Iran with an Iranian puppet regime in charge.

The intent of my post was to address a misconception about Hamas. I aimed to clarify that Hamas is not recognized as a legitimate government, in response to a comment that seemed to suggest otherwise. While you are free to agree or disagree with my assertion, the statement left no opportunity to justify actions leading to the excessive "collateral damage" aka dead civilians (children included) in Gaza. You're doing that entirely on your own.

 

[Gospel]

Some predictions:

1. Israel's actions in Gaza will lead to regional destabilization. Israel's right wing, will loose influence resulting in Netanyahu's ousting and centrist parties assuming control will lay blame on his administration.
2. Their Actions in Gaza will lead to increased Palestinian radicalization, potentially reintegrating some Hamas elements into The Muslim Brotherhood and further destabilizing Egypt.
3. Saudi Arabia will shift its alignment towards the China-Russia-Iran axis for security, favoring Iran over Israel, influenced by China's concessions and their support for Palestine. Efforts by Biden or Trump to normalize Israel-Saudi Arabia relations will make us look goofy as fuck.
4. Saudi realignment will prompt a united stance against Israel from Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon, as a result of reshaping regional dynamics and alliances among Arab groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, and possibly leading to increased visibility of groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS in Western media (again).
5. European nations will miss strategic opportunities (as they always do) and align with counterproductive groups, influenced by a misperception of the Russia-China-Iran axis (thus groups like Al Qaeda & Isis being back in US news cycles).
6. A constructive approach involving Israel vacating settlements in the West Bank to facilitate Palestinian statehood and supporting Palestinian reconstruction and governance with the UN & USA backing will be taken. This would include Israel ending blockades to foster Palestinian economic growth. A possible interim solution will be proposed that involves Israel or another country (Jordan?) managing/rebuilding Gaza City as a neutral trading center until Palestinian stability is achieved.
7. The West will enhance its diplomatic ties with Iran, acknowledging its pivotal role in the Middle East. In doing so, it will also come to understand that the perceived solidity of the China-Russia-Iran axis is more a carefully orchestrated illusion than a geopolitical reality.

SIKE!! 6 and 7 definitely wont happen.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Top UN Court to Hear Genocide Case Against Israel Next Week

UN is getting less relevant by the day. Where is the genocide case against Hamas or Iran? Let's not lose track of who started this war, or why.

For that matter, where's the case against Boko Haram? Or Morocco (for their actions in Western Sahara)? Or Sudan? (The partition hasn't ended the genocide.)

All of those make Gaza pale in comparison.

UN International Court of Justice deals with contentious issues between states. Boko Haram is not a state. Morocco’s actions are an internal matter. So are Sudan’s.

Hence none of them would fall under the UN’s ICJ purview.

Western Sahara is approximately equivalent to Gaza in status. And since the partition in Sudan the genocide has continued even though it does involve two states.

Approximately doesn’t count. The genocide in Sudan is caused by fighting between rival internal factions.

Western Sahara is more a state than Gaza. And it's been brutally occupied by Morocco for ages.

And the genocide in Sudan continued even after it was split into Sudan and South Sudan. It's now international. More warranting of ICJ action than Gaza.

But it's Muslims committing the genocide in both cases, they don't act.

And what about Russian genocide in Ukraine?

I see three conflicts that are definitely hurting civilians more than Gaza and at least as international as Gaza is. And two with clear genocidal intent.

And if you don't require international you can add at least three more.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you now want us all to pretend Hamas isn't a government?

The U.S. government (your country) does not recognize Hamas as a legitimate government entity. Instead, it classifies Hamas as a terrorist organization. Hamas was elected in 2007 2006 and subsequently seized power by force in the Gaza Strip. Therefore, it seems you're the one pretending that Hamas is the legitimate government.

Edit: Note, I agree with most of the other things you've said.
Edit 2: Correction. Hamas was actually elected in 2006. In 2007, they engaged in violent conflicts with their political rivals, which culminated in their takeover of the Gaza Strip.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

They are an illegitimate government.

For practical purposes Gaza is occupied by Iran with an Iranian puppet regime in charge.

The intent of my post was to address a misconception about Hamas. I aimed to clarify that Hamas is not recognized as a legitimate government, in response to a comment that seemed to suggest otherwise. While you are free to agree or disagree with my assertion, the statement left no opportunity to justify actions leading to the excessive "collateral damage" aka dead civilians (children included) in Gaza. You're doing that entirely on your own.

I'm saying Gaza waddles and quacks, whatever it's legal status.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Some predictions:

1. Israel's actions in Gaza will lead to regional destabilization. Israel's right wing, will loose influence resulting in Netanyahu's ousting and centrist parties assuming control will lay blame on his administration.

Since destabilization is Iran's intent this comes as no surprise.

1. Their Actions in Gaza will lead to increased Palestinian radicalization, potentially reintegrating some Hamas elements into The Muslim Brotherhood and further destabilizing Egypt.

No. Radicalization is a function of money spent on radicalization, not in Israeli actions.

1. Saudi Arabia will shift its alignment towards the China-Russia-Iran axis for security, favoring Iran over Israel, influenced by China's concessions and their support for Palestine. Efforts by Biden or Trump to normalize Israel-Saudi Arabia relations will make us look goofy as fuck.

Disagree. Saudi Arabia isn't going to align with their arch enemy.

1. Saudi realignment will prompt a united stance against Israel from Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon, as a result of reshaping regional dynamics and alliances among Arab groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, and possibly leading to increased visibility of groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS in Western media (again).

Predicated on something I don't believe will happen.

1. European nations will miss strategic opportunities (as they always do) and align with counterproductive groups, influenced by a misperception of the Russia-China-Iran axis (thus groups like Al Qaeda & Isis being back in US news cycles).

There usually aren't strategic opportunities for them to miss.

1. A constructive approach involving Israel vacating settlements in the West Bank to facilitate Palestinian statehood and supporting Palestinian reconstruction and governance with the UN & USA backing will be taken. This would include Israel ending blockades to foster Palestinian economic growth. A possible interim solution will be proposed that involves Israel or another country (Jordan?) managing/rebuilding Gaza City as a neutral trading center until Palestinian stability is achieved.

And here I utterly disagree.

The hold Hamas has on Gaza won't be removed. Israel is going to be even more reluctant to allow dual-use materials into Gaza because despite the systems that are supposed to precisely account for them at least 10% of the construction material got diverted to Hamas military use. And that's not counting all the protected facilities that were designed with military use in mind.

And why would Israel foster Palestinian growth? That just means more for Hamas and an incentive for Hamas to attack to get Israel to destroy that economic growth.

1. The West will enhance its diplomatic ties with Iran, acknowledging its pivotal role in the Middle East. In doing so, it will also come to understand that the perceived solidity of the China-Russia-Iran axis is more a carefully orchestrated illusion than a geopolitical reality.

SIKE!! 6 and 7 definitely wont happen.

Yeah, why would we enhance diplomatic ties with the main troublemaker in the world these days?

 

[Gospel]

No. Radicalization is a function of money spent on radicalization, not in Israeli actions.

Financial incentives are the sole reason for individuals joining groups like Hamas? That's overly simplistic. I suppose political ideology, regional conflicts, and historical grievances aren't motivators huh. You've found the solution that will end this conflict Lauren! We should send Lil Wayne on a flight over Palestine and make it rain!

 

[Gospel]

And here I utterly disagree.

The hold Hamas has on Gaza won't be removed. Israel is going to be even more reluctant to allow dual-use materials into Gaza because despite the systems that are supposed to precisely account for them at least 10% of the construction material got diverted to Hamas military use. And that's not counting all the protected facilities that were designed with military use in mind.

And why would Israel foster Palestinian growth? That just means more for Hamas and an incentive for Hamas to attack to get Israel to destroy that economic growth.

The destruction in Gaza has been profound, leaving little for its inhabitants, including Hamas. The focus now should be on reconstruction for the unarmed civilians and empowering them to take charge of their own futures. This is not a short or easy path, but with cooperative efforts and a commitment to building trust, it’s a viable one. The idea that Palestinians wouldn't actively partner with Israel to prevent groups like Hamas from regaining power is only a crazy one to those who don't fucking know them. It's also a crazy one with Zionists still holding sway over Israel.

 

[Gospel]

IMO, Israel should leverage the legal case brought against them by South Africa, using it as an opportunity to take responsibility. They must commit to a sincere and transparent effort to help rebuild Gaza, working collaboratively with Palestinians as they return to their homes. This is a critical moment to put an end to the longstanding open-air prison conditions & the establishment of a new constitution for the Palestinian people who actually desire the same freedom of and freedom from religion the west has. Being in a position of influence, Israel cannot simply walk away & they damn sure can't keep the territory. Instead, they should proactively engage with returning Palestinians, expressing genuine remorse with hopes that they can turn all the anger and pain into shared interests and values. This is not only morally imperative but also essential for Israel's own security. A concerted effort to assist in the reconstruction of Palestinian territories, with an emphasis on reconciliation and cooperation, should take precedence. LIKE YESTERDAY. I have no idea WTF they can possibly do now other than that. Stay in Gaza? Leave it empty? Make it a military complex? Choosing any of those alternatives would be a grave error, potentially leading the region into conflicts of a magnitude beyond human capacity to manage effectively.

 

[laughing dog]

Top UN Court to Hear Genocide Case Against Israel Next Week

UN is getting less relevant by the day. Where is the genocide case against Hamas or Iran? Let's not lose track of who started this war, or why.

For that matter, where's the case against Boko Haram? Or Morocco (for their actions in Western Sahara)? Or Sudan? (The partition hasn't ended the genocide.)

All of those make Gaza pale in comparison.

UN International Court of Justice deals with contentious issues between states. Boko Haram is not a state. Morocco’s actions are an internal matter. So are Sudan’s.

Hence none of them would fall under the UN’s ICJ purview.

Western Sahara is approximately equivalent to Gaza in status. And since the partition in Sudan the genocide has continued even though it does involve two states.

Approximately doesn’t count. The genocide in Sudan is caused by fighting between rival internal factions.

Western Sahara is more a state than Gaza. And it's been brutally occupied by Morocco for ages.

And the genocide in Sudan continued even after it was split into Sudan and South Sudan. It's now international. More warranting of ICJ action than Gaza.

But it's Muslims committing the genocide in both cases, they don't act.

The genocide in Sudan is due to internal fighting. Western Sahara is not a state, it is part of Morocco.
The breadth and depth of the atrocities is not relevant.

The ICJ does not act unilaterally - a case must be brought forward by a country. Apparently no country agrees with your views on Morocco or Sudan.

And what about Russian genocide in Ukraine?

What about it?
Ukraine vs Russia: Allegations of Genocide

 

[repoman]

IMO, Israel should leverage the legal case brought against them by South Africa, using it as an opportunity to take responsibility. They must commit to a sincere and transparent effort to help rebuild Gaza, working collaboratively with Palestinians as they return to their homes. This is a critical moment to put an end to the longstanding open-air prison conditions & the establishment of a new constitution for the Palestinian people who actually desire the same freedom of and freedom from religion the west has. Being in a position of influence, Israel cannot simply walk away & they damn sure can't keep the territory. Instead, they should proactively engage with returning Palestinians, expressing genuine remorse with hopes that they can turn all the anger and pain into shared interests and values. This is not only morally imperative but also essential for Israel's own security. A concerted effort to assist in the reconstruction of Palestinian territories, with an emphasis on reconciliation and cooperation, should take precedence. LIKE YESTERDAY. I have no idea WTF they can possibly do now other than that. Stay in Gaza? Leave it empty? Make it a military complex? Choosing any of those alternatives would be a grave error, potentially leading the region into conflicts of a magnitude beyond human capacity to manage effectively.

While they have the current crew in charge?

 

[Gospel]

While they have the current crew in charge?

No, and by "they" I mean people who think like leaders of Hamas and Netanyahu.

 

[Gospel]

Do you now want us all to pretend Hamas isn't a government?

The U.S. government (your country) does not recognize Hamas as a legitimate government entity. Instead, it classifies Hamas as a terrorist organization. Hamas was elected in 2007 2006 and subsequently seized power by force in the Gaza Strip. Therefore, it seems you're the one pretending that Hamas is the legitimate government.

Edit: Note, I agree with most of the other things you've said.
Edit 2: Correction. Hamas was actually elected in 2006. In 2007, they engaged in violent conflicts with their political rivals, which culminated in their takeover of the Gaza Strip.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

They are an illegitimate government.

For practical purposes Gaza is occupied by Iran with an Iranian puppet regime in charge.

The intent of my post was to address a misconception about Hamas. I aimed to clarify that Hamas is not recognized as a legitimate government, in response to a comment that seemed to suggest otherwise. While you are free to agree or disagree with my assertion, the statement left no opportunity to justify actions leading to the excessive "collateral damage" aka dead civilians (children included) in Gaza. You're doing that entirely on your own.

I'm saying Gaza waddles and quacks, whatever it's legal status.

And I suggest that we should call a duck a duck, and anything else that behaves and sounds like a duck should be referred to as a quack.

 

[Harry Bosch]

IMO, Israel should leverage the legal case brought against them by South Africa, using it as an opportunity to take responsibility. They must commit to a sincere and transparent effort to help rebuild Gaza, working collaboratively with Palestinians as they return to their homes. This is a critical moment to put an end to the longstanding open-air prison conditions & the establishment of a new constitution for the Palestinian people who actually desire the same freedom of and freedom from religion the west has. Being in a position of influence, Israel cannot simply walk away & they damn sure can't keep the territory. Instead, they should proactively engage with returning Palestinians, expressing genuine remorse with hopes that they can turn all the anger and pain into shared interests and values. This is not only morally imperative but also essential for Israel's own security. A concerted effort to assist in the reconstruction of Palestinian territories, with an emphasis on reconciliation and cooperation, should take precedence. LIKE YESTERDAY. I have no idea WTF they can possibly do now other than that. Stay in Gaza? Leave it empty? Make it a military complex? Choosing any of those alternatives would be a grave error, potentially leading the region into conflicts of a magnitude beyond human capacity to manage effectively.

While they have the current crew in charge?

First time that I've agreed with you in a long time. The far right that is in charge of Israel today dosn't want a two state solution.

 

[lpetrich]

Dueling Congressional resolutions:

H.Res.786 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Calling for an immediate deescalation and cease-fire in Israel and occupied Palestine. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Bush, Cori [D-MO-1] (Introduced 10/16/2023)
17 cosponsors, 12 original - the Squad and some Squad-ish Congresspeople

H.Res.889 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Condemning the Hamas-led terrorist attack on the State of Israel on October 7, 2023, and calling for Hamas to immediately and unconditionally surrender, cease its attacks, and safely release all hostages. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Lawler, Michael [R-NY-17] (Introduced 11/21/2023)
12 cosponsors, 8 original - 3 D's, 9 R's

S.3166 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Hamas Sanctions Act of 2023 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Sen. Cruz, Ted [R-TX] (Introduced 10/30/2023)
No cosponsors

H.Res.885 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Condemning Hamas' use of human shields as a contravention of international humanitarian law and a heinous violation of the rights and dignity of civilian noncombatants. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Fitzpatrick, Brian K. [R-PA-1] (Introduced 11/21/2023)
5 cosponsors, 3 original - 3 D's, 2 R's

H.R.6060 - 118th Congress (2023-2024): Defunding Israel’s Enemies Act | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Rep. Ogles, Andrew [R-TN-5] (Introduced 10/25/2023)
7 cosponsors, all original - 7 R's, incl. Lauren Boebert

 

[lpetrich]

Israel’s latest weapon against Palestine is Egypt’s debt | openDemocracy - 18 December 2023, 2.05pm - "Will Egypt agree to take in the Palestinian population expelled from Gaza in exchange for the cancellation of its external debt?"

Israeli forces say they locate large underground weapons factory in Gaza | Reuters - January 8, 20241:16 PM PST

Israeli forces located what they said was the largest weapons production site so far found in Gaza, with underground workshops they said were used to produce long-range missiles capable of hitting targets in northern Israel.

The military said that in addition to missiles, the workshops produced copies or adaptations of standard munitions like mortar shells and were connected through underground shafts to a tunnel network used to transport the weapons to fighting units throughout the Gaza Strip.

More worth doing than killing civilians and whining about human shields.


As Gaza civilian death toll soars, secrecy shrouds Israel’s targeting process - The Washington Post - November 5, 2023 at 5:15 p.m. EST

The Israeli airstrikes that hit the Jabalya refugee camp on Oct. 31 sent buildings tumbling down on families displaced from across the besieged enclave. More than 110 people were killed, many of them women and children crushed beneath the rubble, doctors said.

The Israeli military said the operation achieved its aim.

“We were focused on our target,” Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces said Monday, referring to Ibrahim Biari, a high-ranking Hamas commander. “We know that he was killed.”

...
The consequences of those calculations are spread across the floors of Gaza’s hospitals and morgues. Entire families have been killed; infants are buried with their parents in mass graves. Strikes have hit water towers and bakeries, schools and ambulances. Human rights groups have flagged a growing number of strikes as potential war crimes and urged an international investigation.