Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Jimmy Higgins]

One should fight off Hamas, yes, and I like Israel's Iron Dome. It's essentially defensive. But one should fight off Hamas without killing civilians, even if Hamas uses them as human shields. Imitating Hamas is NOT a good strategy.

I like this analogy for the Gaza Strip.

Kat Abu on X: " A lot of Americans ..." / X

A lot of Americans just don’t know what life is like for those in Gaza, so here’s an analogy that might help:

Imagine Gaza as Rhode Island. Here’s what reality would look like:

2/ Anyone from Rhode Island would be trapped within its borders.

Rhode Islanders can’t leave without express permission from Massachusetts. Connecticut is complicit in this plan, effectively restricting any movement from those trapped in RI.

3/ Keep in mind, RI is the 2nd most densely-populated state in the U.S with 10x more land and half the amount of people of the Gaza Strip.

If we do a basic proportion for this analogy (land/population), RI’s population would be ~26,000,000.

4/ Despite hearing a lot of scary stuff about the people of Rhode Island, over 40% of its 26,000,000 is 14 or younger.

The median age in Rhode Island is 18 compared to 30 in the neighboring Massachusetts.

5/ Even though the population is large and growing, only 4% of the fresh water in Rhode Island is drinkable.

The community has tried to get supplies to build water infrastructure, but those supplies need Massachusetts approval, which it denies 85% of the time.

6/ And it’s not just water infrastructure.

Massachusetts authorities have stopped Rhode Island from receiving everything from wheelchairs to macaroni.

Because cement is also blocked, RIers have to repair their homes with mud after Massachusetts air raids.

7/ Every year, Rhode Island hospitals see 13% more kidney problems because of the toxic water. And because of lack of supplies, doctors often refer the patient to seek care in Massachusetts.

But this care requires a permit — one that can be denied any time for any reason.

10/ Don’t even factor in the idea of occupation right now. Just ask yourself,

Would you be okay with this scenario?

If you stripped away race and religion, is anything you just read acceptable?

11/ Are you okay with any government packing an open-air prison to the gills?

Are you okay with any state denying clean water, healthcare, food, education, and human rights?

12/ I know it sounds silly to picture Massachusetts forcing Rhode Island to be a living Hell.

But everything before this is *actually happening*. It’s just been happening to brown people (largely children) on the other side of the globe.

13/ In this scenario, would you consider it hateful to call for an end to this oppression? Or would you lay the blame at the feet of the state and its ardent supporters?

I know I’d pick the second, especially when many MA civilians and descendants have fought for justice w/ us.

14/ Everything I’ve mentioned here is merely a drop in the bucket. But it’s enough to leave even the strongest person without hope.

Now imagine, on top of all of that, seeing millions across the world condemn you and your family and your race without a trace of hesitation.

I don’t know if this will click with anyone. I hope it does. But if it doesn’t, please ask yourself this:

If these decades-long crimes were committed against a U.S. state or Ukraine or even your favorite vacation spot… How would you feel about it then?

Where is point 1/?
If Rhode Island was lobbying missiles into Massachusetts would that change anything above?
If Rhode Islanders were teaching their children that Massachusettians were evil, vile and deserved to die would that change anything above?
That part of the world is caught in a spiral of violence that I, nor anyone else, have no idea how to end.

It'd be the last to get anything mentality, including stuff like potable water. Imagine living in the third world within the borders of the first world.

Palestine's poverty is self perpetuated by far right wing policy. And extremism is born out more often in poverty and a lot more in poverty that is forced upon people. And just how much truth do you think is fed to children and teens growing up in Gaza? They know the poverty, the limits, it is a dystopian teenage novel plot. Then having their religion and trust manipulated to become extremists, people following lies based on the truth of suffering.

Palestinians are 100% unrepresented by the government that shits on them, the government that oversees them.

That part.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm totally against them cutting off the water to 2.2 million people - that should be a war crime or something.

It is a great idea to make Hamas weaker... except Hamas is likely ready for it and it'll hurt the civilians a lot more. So it is quite short sighted. I'd say it would be a good tactic when launching a specific assault to limit communication, but that'd be it.

 

[Derec]

You believe that in every conflict, there are "good guys" and "bad guys", I guess?

Not in every conflict, but it certainly applies to this one.

Fucking hell. There is no benevolent version of genocide.

The only side in this conflict that seeks to commit genocide is the Palestinian side with Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terror groups.
Waging war against a genocidal enemy who just slaughtered 1000 of your citizens, including beheading babies, is not itself genocide.

More than half the population of Gaza are children, Derec. Under the age of 15.

You have very outdated numbers here. 2002. Fucking hell right back at you.
But yes, still about half of Gaza population are minors (median age is 18). Just under 40% are under 15.
CIA World Factbook - Gaza Strip
The reason for this population structure is the very high birth rate (27/1000) and fertility rate (3.3 children born to each woman). That one fell recently from about 5 recently and from 6.6 in 2002. Over the last few decades population of Gaza was doubling every 20 years due to the very high birth rates. The reason it went down a bit is probably economic situation - many young men cannot afford to get married.
Happily never after: In Gaza, marriage becomes an impossible dream
While that is bad for those wishing to get married, it is good for the overall Gaza society for birth rates to go down a bit (they are still very high).
Btw, something you will not find in Palestinian propaganda: Gaza has also one of the lowest death rates in the world.

In any case, what does the large number of minors have to do with anything? Should it prevent Israel from waging war on Hamas? I don't think so. Note the recent death numbers I read. 770 dead, 140 of whom are "children", i.e. minors. So 18% of dead are minors. That means that by far the most of the dead are adult combatants, because if there were a lot of civilians among the dead, you would expect the demographics of the fatalities to be closer to the population demographics.
I would also like to see the breakdown of the minor deaths by age. I expect by far the most will be teenagers 15-17, as Hamas and Islamic Jihad like to recruit them young.
When Palestinian activists whine about "Israel killing children" it is usually "children" like this they mean:

These are the 3 teens the Jenin terrorists sent to die

In statistics, these combatants are counted as "children".

That's who they are trying to starve into submission. More than a million children with a death warrant on their heads, and you're trying to play a "well they do it too" game like this is about throwing rocks in a schoolyard not a systematic ethnocide.

It is "systematic ethnocide" at the hands of Hamas that Israel is trying to prevent here. As far as "million children with a death warrant", that's just bigoted hyperbole. In the end, the total number of deaths will be a very small fraction of the total population, and by far most will be combatants. Yes, including many of the minors.

 

[Derec]

History supports Hamas? Sounds like something Hamas would claim.

You have presented a very one-sided and biased Interpretation of history.

 

[Derec]

but follow the money. It’s always the money.

Like Det. Lester Freamon said, "but you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the fuck it's gonna take you."

In this case, it will turn out to be far easier than the Barksdale empire. The money trail leads directly to Tehran.

 

[Derec]

Interesting how that paragraph starts with Palestine... and ends with Hamas... without making a single distinction.

How so? There was no mention of the word "Palestine" anywhere in the text you quoted.

Juxtaposition and all.

In WWII, we had to fight against Germany to defeat Hitler and NSDAP. And Israel has to fight against Gaza to defeat Hamas.

 

[Derec]

Israel's ally, Egypt, controls that border on their side. To clarify I'm not suggesting that Israel's allies would, or could, limit the movement of Palestinians at the request of Israel, as that's impossible.

Israel has a peace treaty with Egypt. But it's a bit rich to call them "allies". More like Jerry and Newman when they are not actively bickering.

 

[Derec]

Israeli tanks about to cross Gaza line stop when someone notes "Wait... don't we need a plan first?!"

Reminds me of 2021. Israel allegedly made like they started a ground invasion, but it was a head fake to draw out the terrorists.
A Press Corps Deceived, and the Gaza Invasion That Wasn’t

I imagine this is actually an issue. I mean, it is all fun and games until you lose a battalion waging a ridiculous battle at a street against poorly trained but well enough armed Palestinians. After 9/11, there was a pause. Then an action. Israel actually needs a plan.

I really do hope that once the now inevitable ground invasion happens, there will be a plan. There was a ground incursion in 2014, so there is precedent for going into Gaza. And Hamas lost a bunch of fighters during the Palestinian ground invasion of Israel. That should help the IDF.

Some people post with bravado about "taking Hamas out" or the like... but unlike video games, it ain't that simple.

It certainly is not simple. But it is doable, and, at this point, necessary.

You can fire missiles and drop bombs from planes till the cows come home, but in order to actually HURT Hamas, that means soldiers. Soldiers that'll be put at grave risk of their lives, which better be part of a well thought out strategy.

Bombs can definitely weaken the enemy.

 

[Gospel]

The music festival attack was sickening. I totally understand and share the anger

Israel's ally, Egypt, controls that border on their side. To clarify I'm not suggesting that Israel's allies would, or could, limit the movement of Palestinians at the request of Israel, as that's impossible.

Israel has a peace treaty with Egypt. But it's a bit rich to call them "allies". More like Jerry and Newman when they are not actively bickering.

Yeah being one of the largest recipients of U.S. foreign assistance just for recognizing Israel is rich indeed.

 

[Gospel]

Bombs can definitely weaken the enemy.

And makes more if used improperly. The wests sheer ignorance of the Arab world alone strengthens the "enemy".

 

[Toni]

but follow the money. It’s always the money.

Like Det. Lester Freamon said, "but you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the fuck it's gonna take you."

In this case, it will turn out to be far easier than the Barksdale empire. The money trail leads directly to Tehran.

Not just Tehran.

 

[Gospel]

In WWII, we had to fight against Germany to defeat Hitler and NSDAP. And Israel has to fight against Gaza to defeat Hamas.

World War II was not solely a conflict between nations, but a confrontation against a perilous ideology, an ideology that regrettably persists today. Hitler played a pivotal role, rallying certain segments of the German population behind this belief, while many were deceived into endorsing it. The ongoing strife between Israel and the Palestinians similarly stems from deep-seated differences in beliefs and perspectives. However It's erroneous to believe that strategies effective against Nazi Germany would be equally successful in the Arab world. These are two distinct challenges: one rooted in ancient tensions predating even the oldest biblical texts, and the other conjured up with a European magic wand & weaponized by Hitler and his misplaced eyebrow called a mustache.

 

[laughing dog]

Bombs can definitely weaken the enemy.

In the short run. History in the region suggests it strengthens the enemy in the long run. Unless you are proposing genocide.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Some people post with bravado about "taking Hamas out" or the like... but unlike video games, it ain't that simple.

It certainly is not simple. But it is doable, and, at this point, necessary.

You can fire missiles and drop bombs from planes till the cows come home, but in order to actually HURT Hamas, that means soldiers. Soldiers that'll be put at grave risk of their lives, which better be part of a well thought out strategy.

Bombs can definitely weaken the enemy.

Such a wonderful naive understanding of warfare.

 

[Gospel]

Bombs can definitely weaken the enemy.

In the short run. History in the region suggests it strengthens the enemy in the long run. Unless you are proposing genocide.

Whatever the proposal, I predict it will reflect outdated colonial-era thinking that some people unfortunately still adhere to.

 

[Thomas II]

but follow the money. It’s always the money.

Like Det. Lester Freamon said, "but you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the fuck it's gonna take you."

In this case, it will turn out to be far easier than the Barksdale empire. The money trail leads directly to Tehran.

Not just Tehran.

Not just Tehran...This has the looks of an all out war...

 

[Derec]

One should fight off Hamas, yes, and I like Israel's Iron Dome. It's essentially defensive. But one should fight off Hamas without killing civilians, even if Hamas uses them as human shields.

How do you propose fighting Hamas without risking the lives of any civilians? What you want is to condemn Israel to inaction.
No other country in the world is told that they should not defend themselves in a way that would not harm . Yet again we have special rules devised to restrict the Jewish state and only the Jewish state.

Imitating Hamas is NOT a good strategy.

That is not "imitating Hamas". Have you missed what Hamas has done? And what they have been doing for decades? Hell, they are brutal to their own people, let alone Israelis!

I like this analogy for the Gaza Strip.

Here we go again! Another random twit on TwitterX has a vapid linked list of tweets (or is it exes?)

A lot of Americans just don’t know what life is like for those in Gaza, so here’s an analogy that might help:
Imagine Gaza as Rhode Island. Here’s what reality would look like:

Bad news for Massachusetts?
"We will erase the border with Massachusetts and rip their hearts from their bodies"

2/ Anyone from Rhode Island would be trapped within its borders.

There are border crossings. Two with Massachusetts and one with Connecticut. Funny how the discussion usually ignores Connecticut.

Rhode Islanders can’t leave without express permission from Massachusetts.

If they want to use the border crossing with Massachusetts, yes. That's what controlling your own borders means.

Connecticut is complicit in this plan, effectively restricting any movement from those trapped in RI.

What do you mean "complicit"? Connecticut controls their own border crossing into their territory. Massachusetts has nothing to with it.

3/ Keep in mind, RI is the 2nd most densely-populated state in the U.S with 10x more land and half the amount of people of the Gaza Strip.

And Gaza Strip is 1/3 more dense than Queens.

If we do a basic proportion for this analogy (land/population), RI’s population would be ~26,000,000.
4/ Despite hearing a lot of scary stuff about the people of Rhode Island, over 40% of its 26,000,000 is 14 or younger.
The median age in Rhode Island is 18 compared to 30 in the neighboring Massachusetts.

All of this is because RI has had a freakishly high birth rate because they want to use demographics as a weapon in their fight to destroy Massachusetts.

5/ Even though the population is large and growing, only 4% of the fresh water in Rhode Island is drinkable.

It's not an "even though", it's a "because". Rhode Island increased their population beyond the carrying capacity of their territory. They have been overdrawing their aquifer for years, to the point that now seawater is encroaching on it.
Which means much of their water (as well as food, electricity and all fuel) is supplied either through Massachusetts or Connecticut.

The community has tried to get supplies to build water infrastructure, but those supplies need Massachusetts approval, which it denies 85% of the time.

Because the terrorist rulers of RI divert these supplies to build weaponry to terrorize the civilian population of Massachussetts.

Massachusetts authorities have stopped Rhode Island from receiving everything from wheelchairs to macaroni.

Probably because of smuggling issues.
Gaza border crossing restricted after explosives smuggling attempt

Because cement is also blocked, RIers have to repair their homes with mud after Massachusetts air raids.

Rhode Island terrorists use this cement to build their attack tunnels.

7/ Every year, Rhode Island hospitals see 13% more kidney problems because of the toxic water. And because of lack of supplies, doctors often refer the patient to seek care in Massachusetts.

13% year over year increase? I am skeptical of this claim.
That said, things must be horrible for dialysis patients in Gaza right about now.

But this care requires a permit — one that can be denied any time for any reason.

Security reasons. Because Hamas has been abusing medical permits.
Gazan sisters accused of smuggling explosives as cancer medicine

10/ Don’t even factor in the idea of occupation right now. Just ask yourself,

Rhode Island hasn't been occupied since 2005.

11/ Are you okay with any government packing an open-air prison to the gills?

Massachusetts is not "packing" Connecticut. It is the Rhode Island terrorist government that encourages Rhode Islanders to pack their territory to the gills by having too many children.

Are you okay with any state denying clean water, healthcare, food, education, and human rights?

Those things are the responsibility of the government of Rhode Island. Not Massachussetts.
Just like Taliban, Hamas has found it much more fun to shoot rockets and slaughter babies than the boring work of governing. Especially municipal government is a slog.
Taliban Militants Fed Up With Office Culture, Ready to Quiet Quit
What would be Afghanistan in this silly little analogy? Colorado?

12/ I know it sounds silly to picture Massachusetts forcing Rhode Island to be a living Hell.

It does. RI is doing that all by themselves.

But everything before this is *actually happening*. It’s just been happening to brown people (largely children) on the other side of the globe.

Oh, please! What is this leftist obsession with "brown"? Many Palestinians are fair-skinned, and some are even blonde and blue-eyed.

"Brown", my ass. Not that skin hue should matter one way or another, but being Muslim does not make one automatically "brown". For fuck's sake!
By the way, I have not been hearing much about this silly girl since her jail stint. Maybe she was scared straight.

13/ In this scenario, would you consider it hateful to call for an end to this oppression? Or would you lay the blame at the feet of the state and its ardent supporters?

I lay the blame at the feet of Hamas. About time they end their brutal oppression. Of both Palestinians and Israelis. They are hardly a benevolent government to their own people.
Exclusive: Gay man who fled Gaza speaks about Hamas repression

Now imagine, on top of all of that, seeing millions across the world condemn you and your family and your race without a trace of hesitation.

This twit really doesn't think Hamas did anything worthy of condemnation, esp. last Saturday?

If these decades-long crimes were committed against a U.S. state or Ukraine or even your favorite vacation spot… How would you feel about it then?

That the oppressive and terrorist regime needs to be removed ASAP.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

but follow the money. It’s always the money.

Like Det. Lester Freamon said, "but you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the fuck it's gonna take you."

In this case, it will turn out to be far easier than the Barksdale empire. The money trail leads directly to Tehran.

Not just Tehran.

Not just Tehran...This has the looks of an all out war...

It feels more like 9/11 and it is a one off'er followed by street to street fighting. This is an insurgency.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One should fight off Hamas, yes, and I like Israel's Iron Dome. It's essentially defensive. But one should fight off Hamas without killing civilians, even if Hamas uses them as human shields.

How do you propose fighting Hamas without risking the lives of any civilians? What you want is to condemn Israel to inaction.
No other country in the world is told that they should not defend themselves in a way that would not harm . Yet again we have special rules devised to restrict the Jewish state and only the Jewish state.

It is incredible how incendiary your post is. The "Jewish state"? You are quite clearly trying to paint people that disagree with you regarding the realities of military violence and far-right wing Israeli governance as anti-Semites.

If these decades-long crimes were committed against a U.S. state or Ukraine or even your favorite vacation spot… How would you feel about it then?

That the oppressive and terrorist regime needs to be removed ASAP.

Yes... in the nice imaginary world where this can actually happen, that'd be great. But seeing we live in the real world, and Israeli soldiers will be the ones bleeding to death (because you refuse to fight in this cause you feel must be accomplished) in this mission to rid the world of Hamas, we need to step back and ponder, what actually can be accomplished and at what cost, because we know bombs and missiles don't stop insurgencies, they disrupt real militaries and their infrastructure to wage actual larger scale war. Defeating Hamas will require high-scale urban warfare, which will be very very bloody for Hamas, Palestinians, and Israeli soldiers.

Probably best to actually appreciate the realities of urban warfare before waxing on romantically about how others need to surge off onto the streets in slums against an unlabeled enemy. And that is before the civilian casualties start making the extremism movement grow.

All your ideas were wrong. They've been proven wrong. The far-right leadership in Israel did this to Palestine to keep Israel safe. It didn't work. In fact, it made things worse. Far worse. And now you want to double down on this failed system of shitty far right decision making that is based on fantasies of ending insurgencies via brute force, a tactic that has NEVER worked without resorting to mass scale killing.

 

[thebeave]

BLM Chicago backs Palestine after Hamas terrorist invasion of Israel

CHICAGO (TND) — Black Lives Matter Chicago publicly asserted its support for Palestine Tuesday in the wake of the terrorist invasion of Israel, sparking outrage on social media.

The organization shared a photo to X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, Tuesday of a Palestinian flag tied to a paraglider. The photo bears the words "I stand with Palestine."

"That is all that is it!" BLM Chicago wrote alongside the photo.

BLM Chicago expanded on the sentiments on its Facebook account, sharing photos of "conversation piecers" surrounding the Israel-Hamas war. The "conversation piecers" are largely in support of Palestine, with one defining terrorist organization Hamas as "a political party in Gaza, who were also kind of started by Israel."

Another falsely claims that the "few" Israeli hostages taken by Hamas terrorists are to blame for keeping Palestinians "hostage" in Gaza. At least 150 hostages were taken by Hamas in its invasion of Israel, and many of them, including those attending a music festival, have no link to land disputes between Palestinians and Israelis.

I've never been a fan of BLM, but now even less so.