Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Jimmy Higgins]

The accusation regarding young child beheading is climbing the ladder and going from allegation to dreadful reality. I can't imagine the nightmares responding forces finding that will live with for a long while to possibly the remainder of their lives.

 

[thebeave]

In my view, the apology lacks sincerity. The initial message was both inappropriate and misguided. Whoever is responsible should be kept away from a keyboard, let alone managing that account.

It doesn't even seem to be an apology, as its not different, really, than their initial message. No mention of Israel and their suffering, but the Palestine flag and hearts are there.

It is an apology. A soft one, but it is an apology. It implies that they took a minute to reflect on what has happened and their statements on it and realized that they were wrong on some parts. People admitting errors online isn't exactly a common occurrence and should be recognized as such when it does rarely occur.

Uhhhhh....no. It sounds a lot like a "mistakes were made" apology, or should I say, non-apology:

It's True: 'Mistakes Were Made' Is The King Of Non-Apologies

 

[TomC]

Uhhhhh....no. It sounds a lot like a "mistakes were made" apology, or should I say, non-apology:

It doesn't look anything like an apology to me either. It looks like the same thing dressed up a bit for public consumption.

But it isn't new. BLM has been saying the same thing for as long as I've known about them.
Tom

 

[blastula]

A person posting on Twitter doesn't mean an entire organization supports the sentiment.
Reasonable sentiments can be poorly, ignorantly, naively put forth.

Or even that a Twitter account named BLMChicago doesn't mean there is an actual organization behind the account, especially in today's Twitter. And in this case it does appear there is nothing beyond a social media presence for whoever runs it.

There is also not any official BLM organization that speaks for everyone using the term. Anybody can and has named themselves some version of BLM.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A person posting on Twitter doesn't mean an entire organization supports the sentiment.
Reasonable sentiments can be poorly, ignorantly, naively put forth.

Or even that a Twitter account named BLMChicago doesn't mean there is an actual organization behind the account. And in this case it does appear there is nothing beyond a social media presence for whoever runs it.

There is also not any official BLM organization that speaks for everyone using the term. Anybody can and has named themselves some version of BLM.

I actually did look into it. From a paper I read regarding BLM social media presence, this Twitter account was referenced as being a legitimate account. While not a massive research effort by me, certainly gargantuan compared to Sinclair's efforts. However, as you note, the breadth of the opinions shared are still a bit hard to tell.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "Here’s what we’re not going to do: ..." / X

Here’s what we’re not going to do:

We will not allow bigotry to destroy our community and city in this devastating moment.

Islamophobia, antisemitism, and victim blaming cannot be tolerated.

We can + will reject it all. Not hard. We must focus on the lives currently at stake.

Jeremy Loffredo on X: "At a Pro-Israel protest in New York City, Zionist activists spoke with me and explicitly called for Arab/ Palestinian genocide.
Full: (links)" / X
Someone showed a picture on a smartphone showing (on top) a picture of Gaza Strip city and (on bottom) total flattening painted onto the top one.

Pro-Israel demonstrators call for genocide in New York City - YouTube - wanting every Palestinian dead, a Final Solution to the Palestinian Question.

 

[lpetrich]

AOC knocks 'bigotry and callousness' of Times Square rally for Palestinians - POLITICO

The New York City chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America is facing a political firestorm after the organization promoted a pro-Palestine rally in the wake of Hamas militants’ attacks on Israeli communities.

The group did not organize Sunday’s rally, its leadership said Monday. But several lawmakers with DSA ties are distancing themselves from what was said at the event.

“It should not be hard to shut down hatred and antisemitism where we see it. That is a core tenet of solidarity,” said Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y), one of six DSA members in Congress, in a statement late Monday — her first comments on the rally.

“The bigotry and callousness expressed in Times Square on Sunday were unacceptable and harmful in this devastating moment. It also did not speak for the thousands of New Yorkers who are capable of rejecting both Hamas’ horrifying attacks against innocent civilians as well as the grave injustices and violence Palestinians face under occupation,” she said.

Noting NYC pro-Palestine rally splits Democrats over Israel - POLITICO

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile filed under, are you fucking kidding me?:

Hamas called on “Arab and Islamic nations as well as the international community” to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza.

In a statement, Hamas said Gaza was in need of fuel, food and medical supplies, as well as equipment to rescue people from under rubble.

As if the Israeli response to their atrocity was some sort of surprise? They don't have fuel, food, supplies need to endure a counter-attack that completely caught Hamas off guard after they kind of waged the bloodiest attack on Israel in recent memory, what the worst thing since Munich, and probably much worse than that atrocity?

It pressed the international community to “oblige” Israel to open crossings so that such supplies can reach Gaza, noting that Israel had bombed the Rafah crossing, the only crossing in or out of Gaza for civilians and supplies.

Not a single fucking crossing needs to be opened. Supplies can be air lifted in.

Of course, being prepared to support your people in conditions that could have been considered predictable to a 10 year old would be your fucking obligation. And on the other side of things, not launching an attack that'd bring hell to your people (of whom have been living in squaller for a while) is also probably a consideration that should have been taken into mind before launching said attack.

Kind of the reason why the US hasn't lobbed missiles into Russia over Ukraine.

 

[Gospel]

I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. … | Instagram by Rashida Tlaib:

I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace, without fear and with true freedom, equal rights, and human dignity.

The path to that future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation, and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance extremism.

The failure to recognize the violent reality of living under siege, occupation, and apartheid makes no one safer. No person, no child anywhere should have to suffer or live in fear of violence. We cannot ignore the humanity in each other.

As long as our country provides billions in unconditional funding to support the apartheid government, this heartbreaking cycle of violence will continue.

Fixed it for her.

I mean, if she were categorizing both Zionists and Hamas as proponents of apartheid, she might be onto something, but it's clear that she isn't.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And finally this is the issue to help determine Iran's involvement. If drones similar to those in use by Russia start making an appearance in Israel, things are going to become harder to manage.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Meanwhile filed under, are you fucking kidding me?:

Hamas called on “Arab and Islamic nations as well as the international community” to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza.

In a statement, Hamas said Gaza was in need of fuel, food and medical supplies, as well as equipment to rescue people from under rubble.

As if the Israeli response to their atrocity was some sort of surprise? They don't have fuel, food, supplies need to endure a counter-attack that completely caught Hamas off guard after they kind of waged the bloodiest attack on Israel in recent memory, what the worst thing since Munich, and probably much worse than that atrocity?

It pressed the international community to “oblige” Israel to open crossings so that such supplies can reach Gaza, noting that Israel had bombed the Rafah crossing, the only crossing in or out of Gaza for civilians and supplies.

Not a single fucking crossing needs to be opened. Supplies can be air lifted in.

I don't believe Israel would tolerate unreviewed supplies, could be weapons. Items allowed through crossings are restricted. So I don't think Gaza air space is free. If Iran flew over, they might be shot down. I'm not saying Israel is wrong or right, just that seems to be what would be expected.

 

[Gospel]

Gaza does not have control over its own airspace.

 

[Gospel]

Hamas's objective with this recent attack may not be solely focused on achieving a military victory over Israel but rather on provoking Israel into a response marked by excessive force. It is conceivable that they perceive winning the support of the Arab world as a critical strategic goal, even if it entails setbacks in individual battles, believing that such support is the key to eventual success in the broader conflict. This approach may be intended to compel Arab nations that are undecided or supportive of Israel to reconsider their positions and strengthen the narrative that Israel and its allies pose a threat to the broader Arab way of life, for all Arabs. It's revealing that Iran a Shia-majority country supports Hamas while it's known that Shia & Sunni Muslims don't get along well.

It's quite possible that this has been Hamas' modus operandi all along. If Israel were to resort to indiscriminate and excessive violence, it could inadvertently cultivate more adversaries in the Arab world.

Fuck this up enough and Muslim nations with longstanding animosities may perceive Israel's actions as a reason for differences to fall to the wayside. Then it's surprised Pikachu when terrorists come out of Saudi Arabia again.

 

[Toni]

The House controls appropriations for aid for Israel.

Sure it does, but there are usually asterisks, exceptions, etc...

Also, this outbreak of war will be used as a mark against Biden, blame for which is already being laid at his door.

Unlike Roe v Wade, the Hamas attack will be in the rear view mirror by Election Day. History is like that in US Politics.

Meanwhile, the House is meeting behind closed doors to elect a new leader, without any press or any devices, without any public dissemination of the rules they will use to elect the next speaker. Who will be second in line for POTUS. Very fascist like.

The House or the GOP carcass?

You really think this will be over 6-9 months from now?

The GOP controls the House right now.

The GOP has the most representatives in the House, but it seems to me they control nothing at this time.

Well, sure they do. They have chosen chaos because that's more important to them than conducting the business of government. Any/all of them are, in theory at least, capable of putting aside their own petty need to be in the spotlight for the good of country and world. They choose differently. They are choosing this. It's a choice. They continue to make it.

 

[Gospel]

I can only imagine that if the Democrats were to engage in a similar situation and Israel came under attack within a week later, Fox News and Republicans, in general, would likely point fingers at the Democrats, alleging that Hamas exploited perceived weaknesses in Democratic leadership & the civilian casualties were the direct result of their selfish infighting. Constituents would eat it up.

 

[Derec]

In both cases, the civilians are both dead. Your “ key difference” makes no difference to them or their families. Moreover, that other dude knows full well that their targeting military objectives will kill civilians - those civilian deaths are accepted as the cost of achieving their objectives.

So, what is your solution then? Ban countries from defending themselves militarily when attacked? Or is that a rule reserved just for Israel?

Civilians were killed in Germany and Japan during WWII. Civilians were killed when US was fighting ISIS. Both were justified. And so is Israel fighting Hamas in Gaza.

On the other hand, murdering civilians like Hamas and other terrorist groups are doing is never justified.

 

[Derec]

Yes. What Hamas did was a horrific, evil attack, but cutting off water, electricity and food to civilians is also horrific.

Horrific, but war is always horrific.

Since when do two wrongs make a right? I don't think anyone knows if there is a solution to what's happening in the mideast, but I don't approve of starving innocent people like Bibi wants to do.

It's understandable that a country would not want to supply its enemy. Especially not the enemy that just slaughtered many of its civilians.

That said, I would welcome an evacuation corridor into Egypt. The problem would be determining who is a civilian and who is Hamas (or other combatant as there are other factions). Maybe children <15 and their caretakers can be the first group eligible. That alone would be more than a million people. Where would Egypt house them though? It would be a logistic nightmare.

IT would be better if Israel took a little time to find a way to go after Hamas specifically, not just try and wipe out all of the Palestinians.

IDF goes through a lot of trouble to minimize civilian casualties. More than US military for sure.
You also have to be wary of claims by Palestinians. Often when they speak of "children" they actually mean teenage combatants.

The expression, "War is hell" is as true today as it ever was.

And it was coined by a certain Union general (namesake of a WWII tank) to justify the hell he visited upon the South during his March to the Sea. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. We do not call the North evil for it though.

 

[laughing dog]

In both cases, the civilians are both dead. Your “ key difference” makes no difference to them or their families. Moreover, that other dude knows full well that their targeting military objectives will kill civilians - those civilian deaths are accepted as the cost of achieving their objectives.

So, what is your solution then? Ban countries from defending themselves militarily when attacked? Or is that a rule reserved just for Israel?

Civilians were killed in Germany and Japan during WWII. Civilians were killed when US was fighting ISIS. Both were justified. And so is Israel fighting Hamas in Gaza.

On the other hand, murdering civilians like Hamas and other terrorist groups are doing is never justified.

No, the killing of civilians is not morally justified no matter who does it. It is a consequence of indiscriminate warfare or terrorism. The fact that X is attacked by Y does not absolve X of any civilian deaths of Y due to its retaliation/ defense. Your morality is simply an attempt to alleviate the inhumanity of the actions of the side you approve.

BTW, terrorist groups routinely justify their grisly actions, just like you justify the IDF’s. They don’t accept your justifications just like you don’t accept their justifications.

Deliberately killing Palestinian civilians will make people who feel like you feel better and safer but creates more animosity and hate in the long run. It simply perpetuates the vicious cycle of violence in that region.

 

[steve_bank]

It looks like Netanyahu's 'final solution' is to starve the people in Gaza. Complete isolation.

In his own words, he will exact vengeance, and that appears to be Old Testament wrath of god.

The best way out for Israel is to look at and acknowledge the root cause of the violence, seizure of land and military occupation.

 

[Arctish]

I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. … | Instagram by Rashida Tlaib:

I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace, without fear and with true freedom, equal rights, and human dignity.

The path to that future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation, and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance extremism.

The failure to recognize the violent reality of living under siege, occupation, and apartheid makes no one safer. No person, no child anywhere should have to suffer or live in fear of violence. We cannot ignore the humanity in each other.

As long as our country provides billions in unconditional funding to support the apartheid government, this heartbreaking cycle of violence will continue.

Fixed it for her.

I mean, if she were categorizing both Zionists and Hamas as proponents of apartheid, she might be onto something, but it's clear that she isn't.

I don't think Hamas has ever called for apartheid, and I know Fatah has explicitly rejected it. Both organizations call for integration of some sort in a Two State division of land and resources, or equal rights and equal treatment in a single State.