Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[TV and credit cards]

Trump.il
So I'm guessing this is how it all started... this time.

Haaretz.com on X: "Netanyahu bears responsibility for this Israel-Gaza war (link)" / X
noting
Netanyahu Bears Responsibility for This Israel-Gaza War - Haaretz Editorial - Haaretz.com

One thing is certain, when a nation elects such a divisive character to lead their country, that divisiveness permeates throughout the country, the entire country. Government agencies are not immune to this. Leaders of these agencies can order their people to be professional and keep politics out of the office but even in the silence it is still there. You can feel then tension in the office. There is the occasional slight, the mild but derogatory comment aimed not directly at the others but offensive still. They are microaggressions.
Worse still, it works its way into the military. I often wondered about this when Trump came into office, what the atmosphere must be like aboard ship. I wonder what it is like in Israel's military. And all this affects how people go about their jobs. Who they help, work with or make excuses not to. It destroys the teamwork concept that is vital within the government and especially within the military.
People need to know, to understand, you put people like Trump and Netanyahu in office and they will slowly tear your country apart. It is inevitable. Just as authoritarianism initially goes unnoticed, so too does a country at war with itself.

 

[Gospel]

But OMG I support Hamas for saying this.

You certainly sound like a Hamas supporter, yes.

History supports Hamas? Sounds like something Hamas would claim.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Fuck, that happens, why wouldn't Iran deliver a nuclear weapon to Tel Aviv?

We should bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran before they make a nuclear bomb.

What is your solution to this?

Well it starts wuth making strawman arguments. Then insisting that bombs from planes can end all worries. Finally, I'd create a strategy like a chess game that requires the opponent can't counteract my moves.

Keeping Hamas in power is no more tenable than keeping Nazis in power was in 1944.

Hamas isn't really in power. Might be in charge but there isn't much power.

And hell, with a few more years they could have made their own bomb. Put it on a V2 - ain't appeasement grand?

Sure, maybe even developed ICBM technology.

 

[lpetrich]

On GPS: 'Do we have the right to struggle for freedom?' | CNN
Interview by Fareed Zakaria

Palestinian National Initiative leader Mustafa Barghouti tells Fareed that Hamas's attack on Israel was a response to the Israeli occupation, and that Palestinians, like Ukrainians, are fighting for their freedom.

He claimed that Hamas is mainly targeting military targets.

But much of what he says is correct, like how the West Bank is divided into  Palestinian enclaves - also see  West Bank Areas in the Oslo II Accord

 

[lpetrich]

Terrell Jermaine Starr on X: "Haaretz is a great publication.
I can't recall any of the major U.S. news outlets being as critical of their nation's politics as Haaretz is of Israel.
They are hardcore nailing Bibi's ass to the wall and it has been unrelenting.
U.S. media could learn from these fine folks." / X

They are a left wing publication. They are always critical of the government that is not Labour.

To an extreme right-winger, everybody but them is a left-winger.

That's what I'm seeing here, that what Hamas did was so horrible that it is necessary to do what was supposed to be so horrible about Hamas.

IDF is not doing anything remotely akin to what Hamas has been doing.
The very suggestion is libelous.

No it isn't. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. It goes both ways.

Palestinian residents of the West Bank have scarcely better lives than Gazans—with the routine destruction of their ancestral homes, destruction of their crops, and violent attacks by Israeli settlers.

They also engage in attacks on Israeli troops and civilians.

So they have no right to fight back against occupation?

According to Amnesty International, Human Rights watch, the UN, and Israeli human rights group B’Tselem these policies meet the definition of apartheid. We know occupation and systematic apartheid are a violation of international law and it must end.

All these groups are biased against Israel. Even B'Tselem.

I don't know what criticism of Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories Derec would consider unbiased.

"Civilians are to be protected from murder, torture or brutality

Hamas is committing murder, torture and brutality against Israelis and is using their own people as human shields. But it's Israel that's the bad guy here because they won't supply a territory that is in an open genocidal war against them.

As if that justifies acting like Hamas to Palestinian civilians.

 

[Politesse]

"Civilians are to be protected from murder, torture or brutality

Hamas is committing murder, torture and brutality against Israelis and is using their own people as human shields. But it's Israel that's the bad guy here because they won't supply a territory that is in an open genocidal war against them.

You believe that in every conflict, there are "good guys" and "bad guys", I guess?

Fucking hell. There is no benevolent version of genocide. This is not a Satruday morning cartoon.

More than half the population of Gaza are children, Derec. Under the age of 15. That's who they are trying to starve into submission. More than a million children with a death warrant on their heads, and you're trying to play a "well they do it too" game like this is about throwing rocks in a schoolyard not a systematic ethnocide.

 

[Harry Bosch]

On GPS: 'Do we have the right to struggle for freedom?' | CNN
Interview by Fareed Zakaria

Palestinian National Initiative leader Mustafa Barghouti tells Fareed that Hamas's attack on Israel was a response to the Israeli occupation, and that Palestinians, like Ukrainians, are fighting for their freedom.

He claimed that Hamas is mainly targeting military targets.

But much of what he says is correct, like how the West Bank is divided into  Palestinian enclaves - also see  West Bank Areas in the Oslo II Accord

Hamas didn't attack military targets. They attacked a rave filled with kids that probably most recently were protesting the far right ruling Israel today.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

"Civilians are to be protected from murder, torture or brutality

Hamas is committing murder, torture and brutality against Israelis and is using their own people as human shields. But it's Israel that's the bad guy here because they won't supply a territory that is in an open genocidal war against them.

You believe that in every conflict, there are "good guys" and "bad guys", I guess?

Fucking hell. There is no benevolent version of genocide. This is not a Satruday morning cartoon.

More than half the population of Gaza are children, Derec. Under the age of 15. That's who they are trying to starve into submission. More than a million children with a death warrant on their heads, and you're trying to play a "well they do it too" game like this is about throwing rocks in a schoolyard not a systematic ethnocide.

There is this odd sense of the necessity for black and white. What Hamas did was intolerable. No matter how bad things are, shooting up a concert is not resistance, it is mass murder.

But that doesn't provide the Israeli government cover for their utterly failed policies on Palestine. The last 20 years they've been caged up and isolated. Well, that didn't work. The far right wings plan failed.

And BiBi is in deep shit at the moment because after all of their failed policy, they are struggling to respond to a rather low tech invasion that they didn't likely see coming. Hence all this bravado from PM Caught with My Pants Down.

And now they tell Gazans to flee because the missiles are coming. Flee to fucking where?!

One reason things suck in Israel is because all the wrong people are making all the important decisions, and doing so quite poorly.

 

[laughing dog]

You realize that there are still Nazis around. You cannot crush ideas and hatred.

Sure. And many of them are in the pro-Palestine movement.

And some of them post online. So what?

But they have far less power than they did in 1941. Or the power they would have had had the Allies refused to fight them.

You are living in a dream world if you think Nazis and their ilk are not around, still engaging in violent acts.

 

[Harry Bosch]

"Civilians are to be protected from murder, torture or brutality

Hamas is committing murder, torture and brutality against Israelis and is using their own people as human shields. But it's Israel that's the bad guy here because they won't supply a territory that is in an open genocidal war against them.

You believe that in every conflict, there are "good guys" and "bad guys", I guess?

Fucking hell. There is no benevolent version of genocide. This is not a Satruday morning cartoon.

More than half the population of Gaza are children, Derec. Under the age of 15. That's who they are trying to starve into submission. More than a million children with a death warrant on their heads, and you're trying to play a "well they do it too" game like this is about throwing rocks in a schoolyard not a systematic ethnocide.

There is this odd sense of the necessity for black and white. What Hamas did was intolerable. No matter how bad things are, shooting up a concert is not resistance, it is mass murder.

But that doesn't provide the Israeli government cover for their utterly failed policies on Palestine. The last 20 years they've been caged up and isolated. Well, that didn't work. The far right wings plan failed.

And BiBi is in deep shit at the moment because after all of their failed policy, they are struggling to respond to a rather low tech invasion that they didn't likely see coming. Hence all this bravado from PM Caught with My Pants Down.

And now they tell Gazans to flee because the missiles are coming. Flee to fucking where?!

One reason things suck in Israel is because all the wrong people are making all the important decisions, and doing so quite poorly.

Really good post. I agree with you. Hamas is in the wrong. Attacking a rave. Killing and raping civilians. Kidnapping young kids under the age of 5. I have zero empathy for terrorists. However, Israel in my view is losing the moral high ground. Electing right wingers. Embracing Trump. Expanding settlements. Hurting democracy. Empowering Israeli religious right? As far as I'm concerned, the Israeli religious right are worthless. They push Isrealis to expand into areas that are difficult to defend in the name of following the bible. All they do is study the bible all day; won't work; won't serve in the military; won't pay taxes. And yet these are the people who are running Israel now?

 

[laughing dog]

Of course you did. You admitted you made an inference.

Of course I did make an inference. So did you, albeit a wrong one. That has nothing to do with "conflating" anything. Do you even know what that word means?

Of course I know, apparently you don't. You appear to think that when you interpret the words and actions of the DSA to mean _____ (fill in the blank) that means they intended (i.e. implied it) that meaning. That is utter nonsense.

But these semantic games of yours are silly. They are merely there so you don't have to admit that DSA in fact does support Hamas terrorism.

I neither know nor care who or what the DSA supports. Apparently neither do you, since you are unable to produce a single statement by them that does not to be "interpreted" by you that shows they support violence by Palestinians.

You are the one misunderstanding all these terms. The evidence is the rally itself that happened on Sunday. I posted an article about it. It shows my inference was correct. Hardly surprising, as I based it on the timing of the rally and the common usage of the word "resistance" in those circles.

Repeating your idiotic evidence does not make it any more true or convincing.

Wrong. You equating collateral damage with deliberate massacre of civilians is all that. Do you also think there is no difference between US bombing ISIS targets and ISIS terrorists massacring people in the Bataclan theater?
 November 2015 Paris attacks

Besides "conflate", "infer", "imply" and "evidence" to the list of words you misuse, add "equate". Killing civilians is simply wrong .

You are basically arguing "shit happens in war, so it is okay for ______ to kill civilians" (the blank can be filled in by one's favorite terrorist or war mongering group). That is both intellectually lazy and morally reprehensible.

What it appears that you are also arguing is that if you agree with the purpose or intent of the action, that absolves the actor of moral responsibility. Of course, that is exactly the rationale Hamas terrorists use.

 

[Gospel]

Israel's response to Hamas is justifiable. The question, however, is whether the intensity of this response enhances or exacerbates the situation. Some appear comfortable with the ongoing civilian casualties in Palestine, mistakenly believing that this shields civilians in Israel from danger. The Arab world is intricate, so it makes sense to be aware that more significant actions create more profound repercussions If the aim is to establish peace.

 

[Gospel]

Palestine is your run of the mill proxy war nation. Western countries support Fatah (PLO) in Palestine, while Hamas receives backing from Iran, Turkey, and Qatar, among others. The establishment of Israel was influenced by Europeans waving a magic wand in the air, which historically results in regional challenges. Then when violence erupts, old frightened white men pop their heads off pillows and behave as if a whole lot of shit hasn't been at play.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A barrage of 100s of rockets, including longer range ones reaching as far as Tel Aviv. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and the rest of the Squad must be rejoicing.

I wanted to just note how distasteful it is to use an atrocity for political points against political opponents/women. First sentence too!

IDF's response to this must he swift and heavy. Including going after Hamas and Islamic Jihad brass. And the Biden administration should not push Israel into a premature ceisefire.

Yes, because we need MORE killing. If Israel had only killed more Palestinians and Hamas previously, this never would have happened. You have supported most of the policies by the far right government that have utterly failed in managing Palestine.

Hamas and other terrorists must be taught a lesson. As must their masters in Tehran.

And armchair folks who aren't in the military, should be the first in line to fly over to Israel and volunteer to do so. Israeli military will be killed in the response you are clamoring for. The least you could do is join them in teaching "lesson(s)".

 

[blastula]

Allegedly,

 

[blastula]

A barrage of 100s of rockets, including longer range ones reaching as far as Tel Aviv. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and the rest of the Squad must be rejoicing.

Squad Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Gospel]

Which party is she recommending to cease fire and de-escalate? Is she referencing both sides or solely the one you'd like to attack her for? When she mentions "lives," is she referring to Israeli & Palestinian civilians or Hamas (as you seem to imply)? I believe we need more context, as the statement can be interpreted in multiple ways. While I understand Israel's reasons for retaliation, I find it challenging to critique individuals advocating for peace in the region. Calling for an end to violence seems far from deranged to me. In fact isn't to end the violence why Israel is retaliating?

 

[Thomas II]

Allegedly,

Horrible...

https://www.eureporter.co/world/isr...tted-by-hamas-terrorists-in-kibbutz-kfar-aza/

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm taking all that with chunks of sea salt. It is quite bad enough to have murdered families en masse.

My one problem with accepting the accusation, is that if they are in rampant killing spree mode, such a tactic would be more time consuming. This attack was about surprise and intensity. They only had so much time. It is possible as another part of this was brutality, but I'm not trusting just about anything that isn't from Doctors without Borders or some official organization, especially if posted on Twitter. Heck, I'm not trusting Doctors without Borders "Twitter account". Thanks to Musk, Twitter is even less reliable now.

 

[Toni]

I’m taking those reports as horrific truth. Have heard the same from sources I trust. There is no justification ever for such atrocities.