Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Harry Bosch]

I’m taking those reports as horrific truth. Have heard the same from sources I trust. There is no justification ever for such atrocities.

Wow. If true, hard to believe that any negotiation would work with Hamas.

 

[TomC]

I’m taking those reports as horrific truth. Have heard the same from sources I trust. There is no justification ever for such atrocities.

Wow. If true, hard to believe that any negotiation would work with Hamas.

I don't think negotiating with Hamas will work.
Nor will negotiating with top Zionists.

That's the big problem. Peace is not in the interests of anyone at the top echelons of political power.
If peace broke out, they'd all become irrelevant.
They don't want that.
Tom

 

[Derec]

Wrong again, as usual. Surely you've seen movies showing how the gates imprisoning Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto operated. Israel does much the same in the "occupied" territories where it commits on-going atrocities.

You are the one who is wrong. Israel for example does not control the Rafah Crossing with Egypt.
But your analysis is most wrong because Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto did not have the goal to eradicate Germany and genocide Germans. They did not blow up restaurants and buses in Berlin. They were not shooting . They did not slaughter hundreds of German concert goers or slit the throats of dozens of German babies. Hamas is doing all those thing to Jews though.
Hamas is like Nazi Germany.

This is an insult in violation of ToU. You don't avoid prosecution by using "cutesy" cliches you consider humorous.

Not an insult. Just a simple statement of facts. You yourself acknowledged that people might think you a Hamas supporter based on what you wrote, so I do not see why you act so butthurt over it.

right-wingers here.

Speaking of insults ...
I am not a right winger. I hold many positions abhorrent to them.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I’m taking those reports as horrific truth. Have heard the same from sources I trust. There is no justification ever for such atrocities.

Wow. If true, hard to believe that any negotiation would work with Hamas.

I don't think negotiating with Hamas will work.
Nor will negotiating with top Zionists.

That's the big problem. Peace is not in the interests of anyone at the top echelons of political power.
If peace broke out, they'd all become irrelevant.
They don't want that.
Tom

Well, Israel has made lasting peace deals with some Arab countries: Jordan, Egypt, and etc. But no peace is possible with a group that would approve the beheading of babies in front of their mother. Let’s hope these despicable acts were isolated and directed from the top. But these are acts that would make Ted Bundy mad.

 

[Toni]

I’m taking those reports as horrific truth. Have heard the same from sources I trust. There is no justification ever for such atrocities.

Wow. If true, hard to believe that any negotiation would work with Hamas.

I don't think negotiating with Hamas will work.
Nor will negotiating with top Zionists.

That's the big problem. Peace is not in the interests of anyone at the top echelons of political power.
If peace broke out, they'd all become irrelevant.
They don't want that.
Tom

If peace broke out, they’d be heroes.

But if peace broke out, certain people’s business concerns might suffer. As with all wars, follow the money. Yes, centuries of tribal and religious and cultural conflict make great talking points for propaganda pieces—but follow the money. It’s always the money.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I’m taking those reports as horrific truth. Have heard the same from sources I trust. There is no justification ever for such atrocities.

Wow. If true, hard to believe that any negotiation would work with Hamas.

It should be noted, I don't believe Hamas are the only players in the assault. According to the BBC, another Islamic Jihad group are holding hostages as well. While beheading a child is an insane level are barbarism, killing babies isn't that much less barbaric.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wrong again, as usual. Surely you've seen movies showing how the gates imprisoning Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto operated. Israel does much the same in the "occupied" territories where it commits on-going atrocities.

You are the one who is wrong. Israel for example does not control the Rafah Crossing with Egypt.
But your analysis is most wrong because Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto did not have the goal to eradicate Germany and genocide Germans. They did not blow up restaurants and buses in Berlin. They were not shooting . They did not slaughter hundreds of German concert goers or slit the throats of dozens of German babies. Hamas is doing all those thing to Jews though.
Hamas is like Nazi Germany.

Interesting how that paragraph starts with Palestine... and ends with Hamas... without making a single distinction. Juxtaposition and all. These cages are cesspools rife with opportunities to bring people towards extremism.

 

[Gospel]

You are the one who is wrong. Israel for example does not control the Rafah Crossing with Egypt.

Israel's ally, Egypt, controls that border on their side. To clarify I'm not suggesting that Israel's allies would, or could, limit the movement of Palestinians at the request of Israel, as that's impossible.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Israeli tanks about to cross Gaza line stop when someone notes "Wait... don't we need a plan first?!"

I imagine this is actually an issue. I mean, it is all fun and games until you lose a battalion waging a ridiculous battle at a street against poorly trained but well enough armed Palestinians. After 9/11, there was a pause. Then an action. Israel actually needs a plan.

Some people post with bravado about "taking Hamas out" or the like... but unlike video games, it ain't that simple. You need plans, you need assets, you need intel. BiBi is all about the bravado himself, but I've got to imagine the military is scrambling to figure out just what they are going to do... of which then they look at the politicians... "Whaddya want?"

You can fire missiles and drop bombs from planes till the cows come home, but in order to actually HURT Hamas, that means soldiers. Soldiers that'll be put at grave risk of their lives, which better be part of a well thought out strategy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I’m taking those reports as horrific truth. Have heard the same from sources I trust. There is no justification ever for such atrocities.

Wow. If true, hard to believe that any negotiation would work with Hamas.

I don't think negotiating with Hamas will work.
Nor will negotiating with top Zionists.

That's the big problem. Peace is not in the interests of anyone at the top echelons of political power.
If peace broke out, they'd all become irrelevant.
They don't want that.
Tom

If peace broke out, they’d be heroes.

But if peace broke out, certain people’s business concerns might suffer. As with all wars, follow the money. Yes, centuries of tribal and religious and cultural conflict make great talking points for propaganda pieces—but follow the money. It’s always the money.

I don't think it is as much about money as it is religious power. There might be cash, but when you look at the likes of al Qaeda, ISIS, Hamas, Taliban, it is about religious based power.

 

[lpetrich]

On GPS: 'Do we have the right to struggle for freedom?' | CNN
Interview by Fareed Zakaria

Palestinian National Initiative leader Mustafa Barghouti tells Fareed that Hamas's attack on Israel was a response to the Israeli occupation, and that Palestinians, like Ukrainians, are fighting for their freedom.

He claimed that Hamas is mainly targeting military targets.

But much of what he says is correct, like how the West Bank is divided into  Palestinian enclaves - also see  West Bank Areas in the Oslo II Accord

Hamas didn't attack military targets. They attacked a rave filled with kids that probably most recently were protesting the far right ruling Israel today.

I agree, though a Hamas militia member might make the argument that Israeli civilians are all complicit, either IDF reserves or IDF support personnel or future ones of these or breeders of all of these. Like how Palestinian civilians are supposedly complicit in Palestinian terrorism like the recent Hamas attacks.

 

[lpetrich]

One should fight off Hamas, yes, and I like Israel's Iron Dome. It's essentially defensive. But one should fight off Hamas without killing civilians, even if Hamas uses them as human shields. Imitating Hamas is NOT a good strategy.

I like this analogy for the Gaza Strip.

Kat Abu on X: " A lot of Americans ..." / X

A lot of Americans just don’t know what life is like for those in Gaza, so here’s an analogy that might help:

Imagine Gaza as Rhode Island. Here’s what reality would look like:

2/ Anyone from Rhode Island would be trapped within its borders.

Rhode Islanders can’t leave without express permission from Massachusetts. Connecticut is complicit in this plan, effectively restricting any movement from those trapped in RI.

3/ Keep in mind, RI is the 2nd most densely-populated state in the U.S with 10x more land and half the amount of people of the Gaza Strip.

If we do a basic proportion for this analogy (land/population), RI’s population would be ~26,000,000.

4/ Despite hearing a lot of scary stuff about the people of Rhode Island, over 40% of its 26,000,000 is 14 or younger.

The median age in Rhode Island is 18 compared to 30 in the neighboring Massachusetts.

5/ Even though the population is large and growing, only 4% of the fresh water in Rhode Island is drinkable.

The community has tried to get supplies to build water infrastructure, but those supplies need Massachusetts approval, which it denies 85% of the time.

6/ And it’s not just water infrastructure.

Massachusetts authorities have stopped Rhode Island from receiving everything from wheelchairs to macaroni.

Because cement is also blocked, RIers have to repair their homes with mud after Massachusetts air raids.

7/ Every year, Rhode Island hospitals see 13% more kidney problems because of the toxic water. And because of lack of supplies, doctors often refer the patient to seek care in Massachusetts.

But this care requires a permit — one that can be denied any time for any reason.

10/ Don’t even factor in the idea of occupation right now. Just ask yourself,

Would you be okay with this scenario?

If you stripped away race and religion, is anything you just read acceptable?

11/ Are you okay with any government packing an open-air prison to the gills?

Are you okay with any state denying clean water, healthcare, food, education, and human rights?

12/ I know it sounds silly to picture Massachusetts forcing Rhode Island to be a living Hell.

But everything before this is *actually happening*. It’s just been happening to brown people (largely children) on the other side of the globe.

13/ In this scenario, would you consider it hateful to call for an end to this oppression? Or would you lay the blame at the feet of the state and its ardent supporters?

I know I’d pick the second, especially when many MA civilians and descendants have fought for justice w/ us.

14/ Everything I’ve mentioned here is merely a drop in the bucket. But it’s enough to leave even the strongest person without hope.

Now imagine, on top of all of that, seeing millions across the world condemn you and your family and your race without a trace of hesitation.

I don’t know if this will click with anyone. I hope it does. But if it doesn’t, please ask yourself this:

If these decades-long crimes were committed against a U.S. state or Ukraine or even your favorite vacation spot… How would you feel about it then?

 

[Harry Bosch]

On GPS: 'Do we have the right to struggle for freedom?' | CNN
Interview by Fareed Zakaria

Palestinian National Initiative leader Mustafa Barghouti tells Fareed that Hamas's attack on Israel was a response to the Israeli occupation, and that Palestinians, like Ukrainians, are fighting for their freedom.

He claimed that Hamas is mainly targeting military targets.

But much of what he says is correct, like how the West Bank is divided into  Palestinian enclaves - also see  West Bank Areas in the Oslo II Accord

Hamas didn't attack military targets. They attacked a rave filled with kids that probably most recently were protesting the far right ruling Israel today.

I agree, though a Hamas militia member might make the argument that Israeli civilians are all complicit, either IDF reserves or IDF support personnel or future ones of these or breeders of all of these. Like how Palestinian civilians are supposedly complicit in Palestinian terrorism like the recent Hamas attacks.

The key difference being that one side targets civilians (so called soft targets) and accidentally kills the occasional soldier; while the other side targets soldiers while accidentally killing civilians.

 

[lpetrich]

The key difference being that one side targets civilians (so called soft targets) and accidentally kills the occasional soldier; while the other side targets soldiers while accidentally killing civilians.

Claiming good intentions. Also that it's necessary to break eggs to make an omelet.

 

[laughing dog]

On GPS: 'Do we have the right to struggle for freedom?' | CNN
Interview by Fareed Zakaria

Palestinian National Initiative leader Mustafa Barghouti tells Fareed that Hamas's attack on Israel was a response to the Israeli occupation, and that Palestinians, like Ukrainians, are fighting for their freedom.

He claimed that Hamas is mainly targeting military targets.

But much of what he says is correct, like how the West Bank is divided into  Palestinian enclaves - also see  West Bank Areas in the Oslo II Accord

Hamas didn't attack military targets. They attacked a rave filled with kids that probably most recently were protesting the far right ruling Israel today.

I agree, though a Hamas militia member might make the argument that Israeli civilians are all complicit, either IDF reserves or IDF support personnel or future ones of these or breeders of all of these. Like how Palestinian civilians are supposedly complicit in Palestinian terrorism like the recent Hamas attacks.

The key difference being that one side targets civilians (so called soft targets) and accidentally kills the occasional soldier; while the other side targets soldiers while accidentally killing civilians.

In both cases, the civilians are both dead. Your “ key difference” makes no difference to them or their families. Moreover, that other dude knows full well that their targeting military objectives will kill civilians - those civilian deaths are accepted as the cost of achieving their objectives.

 

[Tigers!]

One should fight off Hamas, yes, and I like Israel's Iron Dome. It's essentially defensive. But one should fight off Hamas without killing civilians, even if Hamas uses them as human shields. Imitating Hamas is NOT a good strategy.

I like this analogy for the Gaza Strip.

Kat Abu on X: " A lot of Americans ..." / X

A lot of Americans just don’t know what life is like for those in Gaza, so here’s an analogy that might help:

Imagine Gaza as Rhode Island. Here’s what reality would look like:

2/ Anyone from Rhode Island would be trapped within its borders.

Rhode Islanders can’t leave without express permission from Massachusetts. Connecticut is complicit in this plan, effectively restricting any movement from those trapped in RI.

3/ Keep in mind, RI is the 2nd most densely-populated state in the U.S with 10x more land and half the amount of people of the Gaza Strip.

If we do a basic proportion for this analogy (land/population), RI’s population would be ~26,000,000.

4/ Despite hearing a lot of scary stuff about the people of Rhode Island, over 40% of its 26,000,000 is 14 or younger.

The median age in Rhode Island is 18 compared to 30 in the neighboring Massachusetts.

5/ Even though the population is large and growing, only 4% of the fresh water in Rhode Island is drinkable.

The community has tried to get supplies to build water infrastructure, but those supplies need Massachusetts approval, which it denies 85% of the time.

6/ And it’s not just water infrastructure.

Massachusetts authorities have stopped Rhode Island from receiving everything from wheelchairs to macaroni.

Because cement is also blocked, RIers have to repair their homes with mud after Massachusetts air raids.

7/ Every year, Rhode Island hospitals see 13% more kidney problems because of the toxic water. And because of lack of supplies, doctors often refer the patient to seek care in Massachusetts.

But this care requires a permit — one that can be denied any time for any reason.

10/ Don’t even factor in the idea of occupation right now. Just ask yourself,

Would you be okay with this scenario?

If you stripped away race and religion, is anything you just read acceptable?

11/ Are you okay with any government packing an open-air prison to the gills?

Are you okay with any state denying clean water, healthcare, food, education, and human rights?

12/ I know it sounds silly to picture Massachusetts forcing Rhode Island to be a living Hell.

But everything before this is *actually happening*. It’s just been happening to brown people (largely children) on the other side of the globe.

13/ In this scenario, would you consider it hateful to call for an end to this oppression? Or would you lay the blame at the feet of the state and its ardent supporters?

I know I’d pick the second, especially when many MA civilians and descendants have fought for justice w/ us.

14/ Everything I’ve mentioned here is merely a drop in the bucket. But it’s enough to leave even the strongest person without hope.

Now imagine, on top of all of that, seeing millions across the world condemn you and your family and your race without a trace of hesitation.

I don’t know if this will click with anyone. I hope it does. But if it doesn’t, please ask yourself this:

If these decades-long crimes were committed against a U.S. state or Ukraine or even your favorite vacation spot… How would you feel about it then?

Where is point 1/?
If Rhode Island was lobbying missiles into Massachusetts would that change anything above?
If Rhode Islanders were teaching their children that Massachusettians were evil, vile and deserved to die would that change anything above?
That part of the world is caught in a spiral of violence that I, nor anyone else, have no idea how to end.

 

[southernhybrid]

I don't think the US has the right to judge too much, considering our response to 911. We killed something like 100K civilians in Iraq and went after Sadam Hussein, long after he was much of a threat. Iraq wan't involved in 911. Plus we spent something like a trillion dollars on that horrible war, as well as some of our military torturing prisoners of war, if you all remember reading the news during those days. Bush and company depended on faulty intelligence when he went into Iraq. It would have been fine if we simply gathered evidence and then went after the individuals and terrorist groups who were involved in 911. Obama did that by having Bin Laden killed.

But, let's be honest, the US has committed many war crimes in some of our very unnecessary wars during my lifetime. I won't even go into what we did in Viet Nam to some of the civilians in that country, in addition to losing about 58K of our own military personnel. I know I'm not the only one who remembers the image of the young girl running down the street on fire, after being hit with NaPalm.

Yes. What Hamas did was a horrific, evil attack, but cutting off water, electricity and food to civilians is also horrific. Since when do two wrongs make a right? I don't think anyone knows if there is a solution to what's happening in the mideast, but I don't approve of starving innocent people like Bibi wants to do. IT would be better if Israel took a little time to find a way to go after Hamas specifically, not just try and wipe out all of the Palestinians. The expression, "War is hell" is as true today as it ever was.

 

[Politesse]

There is this odd sense of the necessity for black and white. What Hamas did was intolerable.

Beyond doubt. Did, and are doing.

"Caused by" and "morally justified by" are not synonyms, in the case of either Hamas' terrorist activities or Israel's planned campaign of genocide.

 

[Politesse]

Hamas and other terrorists must be taught a lesson. As must their masters in Tehran.

And armchair folks who aren't in the military, should be the first in line to fly over to Israel and volunteer to do so. Israeli military will be killed in the response you are clamoring for. The least you could do is join them in teaching "lesson(s)".

How is a coward supposed to help in a war? Conservatives are afraid of their own shadows, I don't see how dumping shit ton of them on our supposed allies is supposed to help in a live fire situation. What are they going to do, write to their PTA about children's book characters that "look Arab", while the bombs are falling?

 

[excreationist]

I'm totally against them cutting off the water to 2.2 million people - that should be a war crime or something.