One should fight off Hamas, yes, and I like Israel's Iron Dome. It's essentially defensive. But one should fight off Hamas without killing civilians, even if Hamas uses them as human shields.
How do you propose fighting Hamas without risking the lives of any civilians? What you want is to condemn Israel to inaction.
No other country in the world is told that they should not defend themselves in a way that would not harm . Yet again we have special rules devised to restrict the Jewish state and only the Jewish state.
It is incredible how incendiary your post is. The "Jewish state"? You are quite clearly trying to paint people that disagree with you regarding the realities of military violence and far-right wing Israeli governance as anti-Semites.
If these decades-long crimes were committed against a U.S. state or Ukraine or even your favorite vacation spot… How would you feel about it then?
That the oppressive and terrorist regime needs to be removed ASAP.
Yes... in the nice imaginary world where this can actually happen, that'd be great. But seeing we live in the real world, and Israeli soldiers will be the ones bleeding to death (because you refuse to fight in this cause you feel must be accomplished) in this mission to rid the world of Hamas, we need to step back and ponder, what
actually can be accomplished and at what cost, because we know bombs and missiles don't stop insurgencies, they disrupt real militaries and their infrastructure to wage actual larger scale war. Defeating Hamas will require high-scale urban warfare, which will be very very bloody for Hamas, Palestinians, and Israeli soldiers.
Probably best to actually appreciate the realities of urban warfare before waxing on romantically about how others need to surge off onto the streets in slums against an unlabeled enemy. And that is before the civilian casualties start making the extremism movement grow.
All your ideas were wrong. They've been proven wrong. The far-right leadership in Israel did this to Palestine to keep Israel safe. It didn't work. In fact, it made things worse. Far worse. And now you want to double down on this failed system of shitty far right decision making that is based on fantasies of ending insurgencies via brute force, a tactic that has NEVER worked without resorting to mass scale killing.
And it seems to me that you are blaming Israel for the attacks by Hamas. And that this is an insurgency by Hamas, which seems like there is justification by Hamas. Which makes me wonder if that's how you see the Jan 6 insurgency in the USA. (Not really--I know that you do not--but words matter.)
If you are suggesting that Hamas was justified, then you are absolutely wrong.
Toni, I can only call the Hamas attack an "atrocity" so many times. I can also only say that this was not "resistance" but "mass murder" so many times. I don't want to have to put my posts in a signature so people don't forget what I've already said repeatedly. It'd get awfully long and hard to follow.
Regarding what I'm suggesting, it is that storing a lot of fertilizer in a warehouse and just let it set there contributed directly to the explosion. I'm saying that the dehumanization of the Palestinians by the far-right government in Israel is one of the direct causes of this atrocity. I'm saying that enforcing an immoral quasi-apartheid system for Israel's benefit didn't work at protecting Israel. I'm saying the far-right-wing failed to protect the Israeli population with their ridiculous far right-wing solutions that created a lot of suffering and breeding ground for extremism.
And to see people suggest that more far right-wing tactics will solve the problem... and rid the world of Hamas, it gets extraordinarily frustrating because we starting (already passed?) a tipping point regarding any possible deal between Israelis and Palestinians, and heading towards a much broader conflict bringing Hezbollah and then Iran into the mix.
Regarding the term insurgency, I use that as a term to describe what is generally an asymmetric war. You have the Israeli military fighting against loosely tied, lesser armed fighters who are among the population, and utterly impossible to tell the difference from. Battling insurgencies is very bloody and in the cities, near impossible. If anyone can actually bother to remember less than 20 years ago when the W Admin's military was trying to brute force it, and it wasn't working. It wasn't until the communities were successfully sold on the intervention that progress began. Does anyone here think many people in Gaza will be eager to help Israeli soldiers with the water/electricity/all services off, with buildings falling everywhere, one to three degrees of separation of knowing people that died, whether civilian or militant?
People that think defeating Hamas is even tenable are deluded at best. They have 0% appreciation for the how this looks to the Palestinians. The truth often isn't as important as the POV of experience. Hamas is bringing this on to the Palestinians. But that won't be how it is interpreted.
And to go a little off topic of this particular post here, does anyone here think it is just a convenient coincidence that this attack by Hamas happened while our own House of Representatives is without an official leader? Which hamstrings US response?
I'm doubtful. While our Government is mired in far right-wing stupidity, our Military and the Executive Branch probably have enough wiggle room to work with, and it is extraordinarily doubtful the GOP would try to impeach President Biden for providing military or humanitarian support for Israel.