Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[steve_bank]

Looking at it from the Israeli side. Part of the problem with a two state solution is whether or not Palestinians can form a stable state with rule of law and suppression of violent extremism.

So far that does not seem likely.

Iran does not wan it, the conflict serves their political interests. A focal point for Iranian people. Israel is the eternal enemy.

Hamas is not likely to allow free elections that can remove them from power.

If Israel really wants peace I think it is on them to resolve Plasticine issues have with Israel..

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza.

As in ancient times surround and starve. In the news Gaza is out of energy.


The population will decline. They are at around 2.5 million.

 

[TomC]

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza

The Palestinian Solution is "We'll Drive them into the sea!" Has been since the mid 1940s.
Tom

 

[lpetrich]

ian bremmer on X: "nine united nations staff killed by airstrikes in gaza." / X
Updated:
Eleven workers with UN refugee agency, five IFRC members killed in Gaza | Reuters

Eleven workers with the U.N. Palestinian refugee agency have been killed in Israeli air strikes on the Gaza Strip since Saturday, and five members of the international Red Cross and Red Crescent have also been killed in the conflict, the organisations said on Wednesday.

Then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "The population of Gaza is about 2 million. Nearly half are children.
Millions of innocent people cannot be made to pay for Hamas’ horror.
Collective punishment is a war crime. So are blockades to food and water.
We cannot allow dehumanization to descend into further atrocity." / X


Jeremy Loffredo on X: "At a Pro-Israel protest in New York City, Zionist activists spoke with me and explicitly called for Arab/ Palestinian genocide.
Full: (links)" / X
then
JCRC of New York on X: "This is not our way. We include under our umbrella every component of the Jewish community from the most Orthodox to the most liberal. We affirm with confidence that the way of the Jewish people has never been and will never be to call for genocide." / X
and
JCRC of New York on X: "We unequivocally support Israel’s right to defend itself and dismantle the Hamas terrorist organization. But right now we are mourning the lives lost in our community, not wishing the same fate on others" / X

Then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on X: "Thank you, @JCRCNY.
Our city can and will come together to reject all forms of hate, from antisemitism to Islamophobia, in this devastating moment.
It takes all of us." / X

 

[laughing dog]

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza

The Palestinian Solution is "We'll Drive them into the sea!" Has been since the mid 1940s.
Tom

It is a solution, just like it is an Israeli extremist position to make all of historical Palestine an Israeli state complete with apartheid.

Of course, there are many more reasonable solutions from both sides. Which suggests your observation is rather dated.

 

[Arctish]

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza

The Palestinian Solution is "We'll Drive them into the sea!" Has been since the mid 1940s.
Tom

Do you have a link? IIRC the phrase in the 1940s was "We'll drive them back into the sea" and it was in reference to the Zionist immigrants arriving by the boatload who were armed, organized, engaging in acts of terrorism, and clearly intending to force non-Jews off the land they wanted for their proposed Jewish State. And wasn't the person who said that an Egyptian who had never lived in Palestine?

 

[Tigers!]

Israel has a peace treaty with Egypt. But it's a bit rich to call them "allies". More like Jerry and Newman when they are not actively bickering.

Churchill sometimes used the word "co-belligerents" instead of allies i.e the Italians who changed sides in WW2 were called the Italian Co-Belligerents. They were never part of the Allies but fought on that side.
A co-belligerent is fighting the same enemy but not necessary for the exact same aim or end.
An enemy of my enemy is my friend is the vulgar representation.

 

[Tigers!]

And to go a little off topic of this particular post here, does anyone here think it is just a convenient coincidence that this attack by Hamas happened while our own House of Representatives is without an official leader? Which hamstrings US response?

No.
Unless the USA response was to bomb Gaza if Hamas farted.
You might be given the US a little too much credit when none is due.

 

[TomC]

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza

The Palestinian Solution is "We'll Drive them into the sea!" Has been since the mid 1940s.
Tom

Do you have a link? IIRC the phrase in the 1940s was "We'll drive them back into the sea" and it was in reference to the Zionist immigrants arriving by the boatload who were armed, organized, engaging in acts of terrorism, and clearly intending to force non-Jews off the land they wanted for their proposed Jewish State. And wasn't the person who said that an Egyptian who had never lived in Palestine?

Google Palestinian billionaire Yasser Arafat and "accords" for your own links.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza

The Palestinian Solution is "We'll Drive them into the sea!" Has been since the mid 1940s.
Tom

Do you have a link? IIRC the phrase in the 1940s was "We'll drive them back into the sea" and it was in reference to the Zionist immigrants arriving by the boatload who were armed, organized, engaging in acts of terrorism, and clearly intending to force non-Jews off the land they wanted for their proposed Jewish State. And wasn't the person who said that an Egyptian who had never lived in Palestine?

Google Palestinian billionaire Yasser Arafat and "accords" for your own links.
Tom

For the future, the simple answer to the question “Do you have a link?” is either yes or no. If “yes” , the protocol is to provide the link. If “no”, then you don’t tell others to go search.

 

[TomC]

For the future, the simple answer to the question “Do you have a link?” is either yes or no. If “yes” , the protocol is to provide the link. If “no”, then you don’t tell others to go search.

The brilliance of your intellect is an inspiration to us all.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

For the future, the simple answer to the question “Do you have a link?” is either yes or no. If “yes” , the protocol is to provide the link. If “no”, then you don’t tell others to go search.

The brilliance of your intellect is an inspiration to us all.
Tom

I doubt that. Interestingly, still no link from you. Makes one think you pulled your claim out of the air.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Looking at it from the Israeli side. Part of the problem with a two state solution is whether or not Palestinians can form a stable state with rule of law and suppression of violent extremism.

So far that does not seem likely.

Iran does not wan it, the conflict serves their political interests. A focal point for Iranian people. Israel is the eternal enemy.

Hamas is not likely to allow free elections that can remove them from power.

If Israel really wants peace I think it is on them to resolve Plasticine issues have with Israel..

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza.

As in ancient times surround and starve. In the news Gaza is out of energy.


The population will decline. They are at around 2.5 million.

How is peace possible with a government, Hamas, that would sanction chopping the head off a baby in front of its Mother? It’s now being reported that the naked girl being paraded around by Hamas on the motorcycle was alive. No peace is possible with animals who would commit such acts. Peace with the PLO is possible, but won’t be easy.

 

[Arctish]

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza

The Palestinian Solution is "We'll Drive them into the sea!" Has been since the mid 1940s.
Tom

Do you have a link? IIRC the phrase in the 1940s was "We'll drive them back into the sea" and it was in reference to the Zionist immigrants arriving by the boatload who were armed, organized, engaging in acts of terrorism, and clearly intending to force non-Jews off the land they wanted for their proposed Jewish State. And wasn't the person who said that an Egyptian who had never lived in Palestine?

Google Palestinian billionaire Yasser Arafat and "accords" for your own links.
Tom

I started a thread on the Oslo Accords years ago. The first thing I asked participants to do is read the Accords and any articles participants linked before commenting on them. If you are willing to do that, I am more than willing to re-start that discussion.

WRT that quote, I found the original again. It was said by Sheik Hassan al-Bana, an Egyptian imam and founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, in a 1948 article published by the New York Times. He was talking about what he saw as the likely consequences of Zionists declaring a Jewish State in Palestine.

If Arafat said the same thing, or something close to it, you can link it here or in a new thread, whichever you prefer.

 

[Arctish]

Looking at it from the Israeli side. Part of the problem with a two state solution is whether or not Palestinians can form a stable state with rule of law and suppression of violent extremism.

So far that does not seem likely.

Iran does not wan it, the conflict serves their political interests. A focal point for Iranian people. Israel is the eternal enemy.

Hamas is not likely to allow free elections that can remove them from power.

If Israel really wants peace I think it is on them to resolve Plasticine issues have with Israel..

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza.

As in ancient times surround and starve. In the news Gaza is out of energy.


The population will decline. They are at around 2.5 million.

How is peace possible with a government, Hamas, that would sanction chopping the head off a baby in front of its Mother? It’s now being reported that the naked girl being paraded around by Hamas on the motorcycle was alive. No peace is possible with animals who would commit such acts. Peace with the PLO is possible, but won’t be easy.

I agree.

Hamas will have to be defeated, both on the battlefield and in the polls. The atrocities must be condemned, and those who committed them must be held accountable. I think it would be better if they were tried in the Hague rather than in Israel but they probably won't live very long once they've been identified.

Peace is possible with the PLO but Israel will have to allow Fatah to succeed in order to secure it. That's been the sticking point.

Israel has had actual, genuine terrorists leading the country as Prime Ministers, and it shows. The old Irgun and Lehi members have mostly died off but their ideological successors are still driving policy. They, too, must be defeated before a peaceful resolution can be reached.

 

[Politesse]

Looking at it from the Israeli side. Part of the problem with a two state solution is whether or not Palestinians can form a stable state with rule of law and suppression of violent extremism.

So far that does not seem likely.

Iran does not wan it, the conflict serves their political interests. A focal point for Iranian people. Israel is the eternal enemy.

Hamas is not likely to allow free elections that can remove them from power.

If Israel really wants peace I think it is on them to resolve Plasticine issues have with Israel..

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza.

As in ancient times surround and starve. In the news Gaza is out of energy.


The population will decline. They are at around 2.5 million.

How is peace possible with a government, Hamas, that would sanction chopping the head off a baby in front of its Mother? It’s now being reported that the naked girl being paraded around by Hamas on the motorcycle was alive. No peace is possible with animals who would commit such acts. Peace with the PLO is possible, but won’t be easy.

Peace is necessary between two governmental powers. Perpetual genocidal warfare is not possible, and attempting it is not liveable. You cannot condemn the killing of some children but praise the killing of others without making yourself look like a dangerous fool.

 

[steve_bank]

Fanatical Jewish religious conservatives. I heard it said Netanyahu probably knew of the assassination plot but did nothing.

If you want to understand Israel run by conservatives and Hamas violence go back to the founding of Israel and seizure of Arab farm and industrial land, and the long history of colonization of of Palestinian land.

Muslims will discriminate between Jews and Jewish Zionists like Netanyahu. There are Jews in Iran.

I watched a rare report from the West Bank years back. A Palestinian and a reporter was standing outside the home he owned, now occupied by Israelis.

There was a UN report on Israel pushing Palestinians off their land. A methodological slow motion ethnic cleansing.

Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, the fifth prime minister of Israel, took place on 4 November 1995 (12 Marcheshvan 5756 on the Hebrew calendar) at 21:30, at the end of a rally in support of the Oslo Accords at the Kings of Israel Square in Tel Aviv. The assassin, an Israeli ultranationalist named Yigal Amir, radically opposed Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's peace initiative, particularly the signing of the Oslo Accords.

The assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was the culmination of an anti-violence rally in support of the Oslo peace process.[1] Rabin was disparaged personally by right-wing conservatives and Likud leaders who perceived the peace process as an attempt to forfeit the occupied territories and a capitulation to Israel's enemies.[2][3][page needed]

National religious conservatives and Likud party leaders believed that withdrawing from any "Jewish" land was heresy.[4] The Likud leader and future prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, accused Rabin's government of being "removed from Jewish tradition [...] and Jewish values".[2][3] Right-wing rabbis associated with the settlers' movement prohibited territorial concessions to the Palestinians and forbade soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces from evacuating Jewish settlers under the accords.[5][6] Some rabbis proclaimed din rodef, based on a traditional Jewish law of self-defense, against Rabin personally, arguing that the Oslo Accords would endanger Jewish lives.[5][7][page needed]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Looking at it from the Israeli side. Part of the problem with a two state solution is whether or not Palestinians can form a stable state with rule of law and suppression of violent extremism.

So far that does not seem likely.

Iran does not wan it, the conflict serves their political interests. A focal point for Iranian people. Israel is the eternal enemy.

Hamas is not likely to allow free elections that can remove them from power.

If Israel really wants peace I think it is on them to resolve Plasticine issues have with Israel..

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza.

As in ancient times surround and starve. In the news Gaza is out of energy.


The population will decline. They are at around 2.5 million.

How is peace possible with a government, Hamas, that would sanction chopping the head off a baby in front of its Mother? It’s now being reported that the naked girl being paraded around by Hamas on the motorcycle was alive. No peace is possible with animals who would commit such acts. Peace with the PLO is possible, but won’t be easy.

We made peace with Germany. We made peace with Japan. They did far worse, but had more resources in which to commit unspeakable war crimes.

There are two options.
1) Make peace
2) Keep killing each other
Maybe option 3,
3) One side eradicates the other.
Trouble with 3 is that there would be severe repercussions.

To the second point, when the heck was Hamas ever a government?

The brutality of the attack was quite something else. Raising the stakes of vengeful retaliation and lowering chances of a peace. I'm not quite certain what they were wanting in this other than to push Iran to get off the pot and fuckup Israel, ie by enraging Israel enough to force Iran's hands. I mean after 40 years of Iran's let's make Palestine great again talk has probably worn thin with some of them.

Is peace possible? It certainly is further away now than where it was, but it was so far away to begin with, maybe it is like buying 1 ticket instead of 100 tickets for Powerball. In the end, if peace isn't possible, then the deaths will continue.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For the future, the simple answer to the question “Do you have a link?” is either yes or no. If “yes” , the protocol is to provide the link. If “no”, then you don’t tell others to go search.

The brilliance of your intellect is an inspiration to us all.
Tom

In ld's defense, his response was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't know, rather than you were being needlessly rude and unhelpful.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Looking at it from the Israeli side. Part of the problem with a two state solution is whether or not Palestinians can form a stable state with rule of law and suppression of violent extremism.

So far that does not seem likely.

Iran does not wan it, the conflict serves their political interests. A focal point for Iranian people. Israel is the eternal enemy.

Hamas is not likely to allow free elections that can remove them from power.

If Israel really wants peace I think it is on them to resolve Plasticine issues have with Israel..

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza.

As in ancient times surround and starve. In the news Gaza is out of energy.


The population will decline. They are at around 2.5 million.

How is peace possible with a government, Hamas, that would sanction chopping the head off a baby in front of its Mother? It’s now being reported that the naked girl being paraded around by Hamas on the motorcycle was alive. No peace is possible with animals who would commit such acts. Peace with the PLO is possible, but won’t be easy.

We made peace with Germany. We made peace with Japan. They did far worse, but had more resources in which to commit unspeakable war crimes.

There are two options.
1) Make peace
2) Keep killing each other
Maybe option 3,
3) One side eradicates the other.
Trouble with 3 is that there would be severe repercussions.

To the second point, when the heck was Hamas ever a government?

The brutality of the attack was quite something else. Raising the stakes of vengeful retaliation and lowering chances of a peace. I'm not quite certain what they were wanting in this other than to push Iran to get off the pot and fuckup Israel, ie by enraging Israel enough to force Iran's hands. I mean after 40 years of Iran's let's make Palestine great again talk has probably worn thin with some of them.

Is peace possible? It certainly is further away now than where it was, but it was so far away to begin with, maybe it is like buying 1 ticket instead of 100 tickets for Powerball. In the end, if peace isn't possible, then the deaths will continue.

Jimmy: with respect, we didn't make peace with Germany and Japan. We imposed it on them; Forced them to 100% concede with no conditions. Secondly, Hamas is the elected government of Gaza (not the West Bank). But after hearing the stories of the atrocities that Hamas committed (remain hopeful that they are not true?); don't believe that peace is possible with them. Peace is possible with Arab nations. I believe that peace is possible with the PLO. I don't think that the west could have made peace with the Nazis during WW2 or with Hamas today.

 

[blastula]

Th Israeli solution as declared by Israel is the complete destruction of Hamas, no more cease fires and negations. That can only be accomplished by the destruction of Gaza

The Palestinian Solution is "We'll Drive them into the sea!" Has been since the mid 1940s.
Tom

Do you have a link? IIRC the phrase in the 1940s was "We'll drive them back into the sea" and it was in reference to the Zionist immigrants arriving by the boatload who were armed, organized, engaging in acts of terrorism, and clearly intending to force non-Jews off the land they wanted for their proposed Jewish State. And wasn't the person who said that an Egyptian who had never lived in Palestine?

Google Palestinian billionaire Yasser Arafat and "accords" for your own links.
Tom

Yasser Arafat accords - Google Search

Doesn't help.