Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[lpetrich]

Younis Tirawi | يونس on X: "[@tamerqdh] unveils alarming footage depicting Israeli soldiers burning Quran book within a mosque in Gaza.
The video captures a soldier tossing the Quran into flames as the mosque is set ablaze. (vid link)" / X
Would that soldier like it if someone burned a copy of the Tanakh in front of him? That's what Jews call Old Testament or Hebrew Bible.

So what? Soldiers are going to sometimes do disrespectful things to the people trying to kill them.

Genocidal "reasoning". Islam != Hamas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel confirms deaths of four more hostages in Gaza

Israel's military says UK-Israeli Nadav Popplewell and three others "were killed while together in the area of Khan Younis during our operation there".

www.bbc.com

IDF spokesman Rear Adm Daniel Hagari said intelligence gathered in recent weeks had led to the assessment.

"We assess that the four of them were killed while together in the area of Khan Younis during our operation there against Hamas," he said, without giving further details.

Last month, Hamas claimed that Nadav Popplewell had died in an Israeli strike in April. The UK Foreign Office said it was investigating, but there was no confirmation of his death until now.

My guess is Hamas wanted to bug out and just killed them instead of taking them with them.

That is possible. It seems if it were the case, it'd likely be done by certain weapons and at close range. Certain other weapons would be responsible (again, most likely) if Israel were responsible. So, in the likely scenario, recovery of bodies would tell the story of who did it. Then, it's also likely that if it were Hamas, Israel would have absolutely no reason not to say it is Hamas in its reporting of it by the military spokesperson. So, going backward, it seems like a significant chance it was not Hamas that did it because it'd likely be obvious it was them and then Israel would say so. But of course, I cannot be sure either way.

In any case, these types of scenarios of finding the deceased hostages and not being able to tell who killed them were predictable from the get-go. From the beginning, it was claimed that Israel would bomb Hamas into the Stone Age so they gave up the hostages.

Here is how I expressed what I think most of us actually thought:
Oct 12, 2023

It doesn't seem very practical either. Suppose they inadvertently bomb the hostages. If they are avoiding that, then wouldn't they be bombing non-military targets? Even if they don't bomb the hostages, what if Hamas starts killing them, showing photos? Hamas could say stop or claim Israel is bombing the hostages. It isn't clear to me that Israel wants to bomb Gaza into the Stone Age and following that send in massive ground troops and tanks for recovery of hostage remains, but that seems to be the direction.

Fresh body, I would agree with your logic. Old body left to rot, not so much. The bones will still give good information about what happened to the bone, but after a body has been rotting for weeks most soft tissue injury will be indistinguishable. And what about postmortem injuries? Did they die because the roof fell in or were they already dead?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Younis Tirawi | يونس on X: "[@tamerqdh] unveils alarming footage depicting Israeli soldiers burning Quran book within a mosque in Gaza.
The video captures a soldier tossing the Quran into flames as the mosque is set ablaze. (vid link)" / X
Would that soldier like it if someone burned a copy of the Tanakh in front of him? That's what Jews call Old Testament or Hebrew Bible.

So what? Soldiers are going to sometimes do disrespectful things to the people trying to kill them.

Genocidal "reasoning". Islam != Hamas.

But Hamas is Islamic.

 

[Arctish]

Younis Tirawi | يونس on X: "[@tamerqdh] unveils alarming footage depicting Israeli soldiers burning Quran book within a mosque in Gaza.
The video captures a soldier tossing the Quran into flames as the mosque is set ablaze. (vid link)" / X
Would that soldier like it if someone burned a copy of the Tanakh in front of him? That's what Jews call Old Testament or Hebrew Bible.

So what? Soldiers are going to sometimes do disrespectful things to the people trying to kill them.

Genocidal "reasoning". Islam != Hamas.

But Hamas is Islamic.

Kach and Likud are Judaic.

Are we supposed to judge all Jews (and all Jewish institutions) based on that video of Itamar Ben-Gvir and his friends stabbing a picture of a Palestinian baby who burned to death in a firebomb attack Ben-Gvir's Zionist settlers clients carried out, or Netanhayu's glorification of terrorists at the gala where guests could meet a real, live Jewish terrorist and listen to him describe the most famous terrorist attack he helped carry out?

Or, are we supposed to be able to recognize the humanity and diversity of Jews, that not all Jews share the same worldview much less a single mindset, and that just because some Jews celebrate the deaths of unarmed helpless civilians, that doesn't mean they all do?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Egypt is refusing supplies:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypt-demands-israel-withdraws-rafah-crossing-it-operate-again-sources-say-2024-06-02/

In all probability that really means they can't get smuggler prices and have to settle for open market prices.

 

[lpetrich]

Slovenia's government recognises Palestinian state, needs parliamentary approval | Reuters

LUBLJANA, May 29 (Reuters) - The Slovenian government on Thursday approved a decision to recognise an independent Palestinian state, Prime Minister Robert Golob said, following in the steps of Spain, Ireland and Norway.

The move drew swift condemnation from Israel.

...
Of the 27 members of the European Union, Sweden, Cyprus, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Romania and Bulgaria have already recognised a Palestinian state. Malta has said it could follow soon.

Britain and Australia have said they are also considering recognition, but France has said now is not the time.
Germany joined Israel's staunchest ally, the United States, in rejecting a unilateral approach, insisting that a two-state solution can only be achieved through dialogue.

Denmark's parliament on Tuesday voted down a bill to recognise a Palestinian state.

Norway, which chairs the international donor group to the Palestinians, had until recently followed the U.S. position but has lost confidence that this strategy will work.

Slovenia becomes latest EU country to recognise Palestinian state | Reuters

LJUBLJANA, June 4 (Reuters) - Slovenia became the latest European Union country to recognise an independent Palestinian state after its parliament approved the move with majority vote on Tuesday, dismissing a call for a referendum on the issue by the largest opposition party.

Good to see them do that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Israeli strike kills at least 33 people at a Gaza school the military claims was being used by Hamas

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli strike early Thursday on a school sheltering displaced Palestinians in central Gaza killed at least 33 people, including 12 women and children, according to local health officials. The Israeli military said that Hamas militants were operating from...

news.yahoo.com

"...but Hamas" isn't going to cut it anymore.

Israel is currently denying there were civilians harmed in this attack.

An Israeli military spokesman, Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, said that the army wasn't aware of any civilian casualties in the strike. He said that intelligence indicated that militants had used the school compound to orchestrate some of the attacks on Oct. 7 and that at least 20 militants there were using it currently as a “staging realm” to launch attacks on Israeli soldiers. The military gave no evidence for its claims and released a photo of the school, pointing to classrooms on the second and third floor where it claimed militants were located.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israeli strike kills at least 33 people at a Gaza school the military claims was being used by Hamas

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli strike early Thursday on a school sheltering displaced Palestinians in central Gaza killed at least 33 people, including 12 women and children, according to local health officials. The Israeli military said that Hamas militants were operating from...

news.yahoo.com

"...but Hamas" isn't going to cut it anymore.

Israel is currently denying there were civilians harmed in this attack.

An Israeli military spokesman, Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, said that the army wasn't aware of any civilian casualties in the strike. He said that intelligence indicated that militants had used the school compound to orchestrate some of the attacks on Oct. 7 and that at least 20 militants there were using it currently as a “staging realm” to launch attacks on Israeli soldiers. The military gave no evidence for its claims and released a photo of the school, pointing to classrooms on the second and third floor where it claimed militants were located.

Ayman Rashed, a man displaced from Gaza City who was sheltering at the school, said the missiles hit classrooms on the second and third floor where families were sheltering.

When you read something like that your first thought should be rocket storage going up.

First, Israel isn't likely to be using missiles. They have no need of standoff capability, expect bombs, not missiles.

Second, when Israel hits something it's usually gone. If you can identify "second and third floor" as impact points it's very low energy warheads. Misfire or ammunition going up--and since Israel agrees they hit the place I would presume the latter.

 

[Derec]

Israeli strike kills at least 33 people at a Gaza school the military claims was being used by Hamas

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli strike early Thursday on a school sheltering displaced Palestinians in central Gaza killed at least 33 people, including 12 women and children, according to local health officials. The Israeli military said that Hamas militants were operating from...

news.yahoo.com

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli strike early Thursday on a school sheltering displaced Palestinians in central Gaza killed at least 33 people, including 12 women and children, according to local health officials. The Israeli military said that Hamas militants were operating from within the school.
[...]The hospital morgue later amended those records to show that the dead included three women, nine children and 21 men. It was not immediately clear what caused the discrepancy.

Even using Hamas numbers, it is clear that combatants were hit. 21 out of 33 (63.6%) are adult men. But only about 25% of Gaza population are adult men (half the population are women, and half are minors). It is highly unlikely this casualty distribution occurred by chance. Moreover, "children" in this context means "minors". Hamas and Islamic Jihad recruit minor teenagers, 16, 17, even 15 year olds. So some of the minors may well have been combatants.

This is similar, but even more lopsided than the numbers in the Tel-al-Sultan incident from a couple of weeks ago.

Separate strikes in central Gaza killed another 15 people, nearly all men.

So probably combatants.

[UNRWA boss Lazzarini] said UNRWA was unable to verify claims that armed groups were inside.

UNRWA is the prime example of willful incompetence.

"...but Hamas" isn't going to cut it anymore.

Why not? Hamas and Islamic Jihad are responsible for using this school for a command post. It is unrealistic to assume that terrorists should enjoy absolute immunity as long as they hide among civilians. The blame for this should be on the terrorists, nobody else.

Israel is currently denying there were civilians harmed in this attack.

An Israeli military spokesman, Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, said that the army wasn't aware of any civilian casualties in the strike. He said that intelligence indicated that militants had used the school compound to orchestrate some of the attacks on Oct. 7 and that at least 20 militants there were using it currently as a “staging realm” to launch attacks on Israeli soldiers.

The quoted text does not fit your claim. The spokesman merely said he was not aware of civilian casualties, he did not deny that there were any.

The military gave no evidence for its claims

Funny how these news outlets demand absolute proof from Israel but swallow claims by Hamas and UNRWA with no questions asked.
And as I showed above, even the Hamas numbers show that there were almost certainly many combatants among the dead.

 

[Derec]

Good to see them do that.

Why? Recognizing "Palestine" at this time is effectively rewarding Palestinians for massacring Jews on 10/7.
Truly deplorable.

 

[Arctish]

Good to see them do that.

Why? Recognizing "Palestine" at this time is effectively rewarding Palestinians for massacring Jews on 10/7.
Truly deplorable.

Recognition should have happened years ago, if not when the Israeli government and the Palestinians agreed to the 1967 borders when the Oslo Accords were being implemented, then at least when the PA formally renounced terrorism and pursued its goals through diplomacy at the UN.

I agree that rewarding Hamas is a bad idea, but it's not like the PA being recognized as the legitimate government of Gaza (along with the rest of the State of Palestine) is any kind of reward for them.

 

[Derec]

Recognition should have happened years ago, if not when the Israeli government and the Palestinians agreed to the 1967 borders when the Oslo Accords were being implemented,

No borders were agreed in Oslo. That was an interim agreement and final borders were to be negotiated. When Arafat rejected the Ehud Barak proposal, Palestinians launched a wave of terror (so-called 2nd Intifada).

at least when the PA formally renounced terrorism and pursued its goals through diplomacy at the UN.

"Formally" does a lot of heavy lifting here. PA still pays stipends for imprisoned terrorists and also the families of dead terrorists ("Pay for Slay") and Fatah, the party that runs PA, has a terror wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Ibrahim Nablusi, who inspired the name of the recently sanctioned terror cell "Lion's Den" was a Fatah terrorist for example.

I agree that rewarding Hamas is a bad idea, but it's not like the PA being recognized as the legitimate government of Gaza (along with the rest of the State of Palestine) is any kind of reward for them.

Which is why any recognition should be after the war in Gaza, Hamas relinquishing power in favor of PA, and PA ending any support for terrorism and demonstrating they can live in peace with Israel.

 

[Arctish]

Recognition should have happened years ago, if not when the Israeli government and the Palestinians agreed to the 1967 borders when the Oslo Accords were being implemented,

No borders were agreed in Oslo. That was an interim agreement and final borders were to be negotiated. When Arafat rejected the Ehud Barak proposal, Palestinians launched a wave of terror (so-called 2nd Intifada).

at least when the PA formally renounced terrorism and pursued its goals through diplomacy at the UN.

"Formally" does a lot of heavy lifting here. PA still pays stipends for imprisoned terrorists and also the families of dead terrorists ("Pay for Slay") and Fatah, the party that runs PA, has a terror wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Ibrahim Nablusi, who inspired the name of the recently sanctioned terror cell "Lion's Den" was a Fatah terrorist for example.

I agree that rewarding Hamas is a bad idea, but it's not like the PA being recognized as the legitimate government of Gaza (along with the rest of the State of Palestine) is any kind of reward for them.

Which is why any recognition should be after the war in Gaza, Hamas relinquishing power in favor of PA, and PA ending any support for terrorism and demonstrating they can live in peace with Israel.

I have read the Oslo Accords and the amendments. Have you?

I understand you are opposed to the Two State solution and any one State solution that does not permanently remove Palestinians from Eretz Israel. A peace deal that leaves Palestinians in charge of any part of Palestine is not one you'll favor.

It's interesting, though, that you want Hamas to remain in power after the War in Gaza concludes so that it can relinquish power at a later date. I want Hamas to be utterly defeated and removed from power ASAP. It needs to happen sooner rather than later.

But as I've said before, there have to be significant changes made in Gaza and the West Bank so that the civilians there have a chance to live in peace and enjoy prosperity. If all you're going to do is put the lid back on the pressure cooker and turn up the heat, you'll just be setting the stage for the next explosion.

 

[repoman]

This is one heck of an article:

Live by the Law or Die on the Cross Israel: must stop pretending it is a nation like any other

 

[Gospel]

What exactly do you think that article says?

 

[repoman]

He wants to be judged by an easier standard than he probably would hold non Jewish people to.

 

[Gospel]

The writer thinks Israel should say screw the USA (and all other outsiders) and assert its identity and defend its homeland based on its own ethical principles.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The writer thinks Israel should say screw the USA (and all other outsiders) and assert its identity and defend its homeland based on its own ethical principles.

That’s what the USA does. So others shouldn’t?

 

[Gospel]

Regardless of the support from the USA, they've been acting independently for quite some time. The only real influence the USA has is some official flying into Congress to ensure the continuation of financial and military aid. I mean, I can be wrong.

 

[Derec]

Women and children of Gaza are killed less frequently as war’s toll rises, AP data analysis finds

The trend is significant because the death rate for women and children is the best available proxy for civilian casualties in one of the 21st century’s most destructive conflicts. In October, when the war began, it was above 60%. For the month of April, it was below 40%. Yet the shift went unnoticed for months by the U.N. and much of the media, and the Hamas-linked Health Ministry has made no effort to set the record straight.

Note that "women and children [i.e. minors]" constitute ~75% of the Gaza population. So even 60% meant that they were underrepresented among the war's victims.