Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Loren Pechtel]

Because "I demand perfection" is a strawman argument. Why would I defend an idea that isn't mine? I criticize trends and behaviors like rampant militarization, lack of executive accountability, and state sponsorship of genocide

The only ones who support "genocide" are the far left idiots who are cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.

You’ve repeated this scurrilous charge many times, and have ignored the many times you have been corrected and put in your place, which is in a corner wearing a dunce cap. The vast majority of protesters are NOT “cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.” We are opposing Israeli genocide against innocent people in Gaza. To the extent that SOME of them MAY be cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah, in most cases it is a reflection of their frustration with Israel’s genocide and U.S. financial and military support of it.

And we are calling wife-beating on this.

You are taking it as a given that there is genocide in Gaza--something that the facts do not support.

Why does your Ilk never have anything bad to say about them?

Please stop your bullshit. I, others here, and many, many others protesting against Israel have indeed condemned the atrocities committed by Hamas on Oct. 7. Your misrepresentations of others is as disgusting as RVonse’s racist slurs on other topics.

You pay lip service to the ongoing Hamas atrocities and keep blaming Israel for conducting war in an exemplary fashion.

 

[pood]

Because "I demand perfection" is a strawman argument. Why would I defend an idea that isn't mine? I criticize trends and behaviors like rampant militarization, lack of executive accountability, and state sponsorship of genocide

The only ones who support "genocide" are the far left idiots who are cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.

You’ve repeated this scurrilous charge many times, and have ignored the many times you have been corrected and put in your place, which is in a corner wearing a dunce cap. The vast majority of protesters are NOT “cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.” We are opposing Israeli genocide against innocent people in Gaza. To the extent that SOME of them MAY be cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah, in most cases it is a reflection of their frustration with Israel’s genocide and U.S. financial and military support of it.

And we are calling wife-beating on this.

You are taking it as a given that there is genocide in Gaza--something that the facts do not support.

The facts do support it. The Gazan people are being murdered and terrorized, and in fact have been terrorized and effectively imprisoned by Israel for decades.

Why does your Ilk never have anything bad to say about them?

Please stop your bullshit. I, others here, and many, many others protesting against Israel have indeed condemned the atrocities committed by Hamas on Oct. 7. Your misrepresentations of others is as disgusting as RVonse’s racist slurs on other topics.

You pay lip service to the ongoing Hamas atrocities and keep blaming Israel for conducting war in an exemplary fashion.

Excuse me, I’m not blaming Israel for “conducting war in an exemplary fashion.” I could not possibly be doing that because obviously I don’t think they are “conducting war in an exemplary fashion.” If I DID think they were doing so, then I obviously wouldn’t be blaming them for anything. I am blaming them for conducting terror and genocide against an innocent and captive population. Strictly speaking this is not even a war, it’s a slaughter.

 

[pood]

I also resent your claim that I am paying “lip service” to Hamas atrocities. I have and do fully condemn them.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because "I demand perfection" is a strawman argument. Why would I defend an idea that isn't mine? I criticize trends and behaviors like rampant militarization, lack of executive accountability, and state sponsorship of genocide

The only ones who support "genocide" are the far left idiots who are cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.

You’ve repeated this scurrilous charge many times, and have ignored the many times you have been corrected and put in your place, which is in a corner wearing a dunce cap. The vast majority of protesters are NOT “cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.” We are opposing Israeli genocide against innocent people in Gaza. To the extent that SOME of them MAY be cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah, in most cases it is a reflection of their frustration with Israel’s genocide and U.S. financial and military support of it.

And we are calling wife-beating on this.

You are taking it as a given that there is genocide in Gaza--something that the facts do not support.

Let's be fair, I've seen your side using the G-word too. There has been a lot of needless hyperbole being shot back and forth.

Why does your Ilk never have anything bad to say about them?

Please stop your bullshit. I, others here, and many, many others protesting against Israel have indeed condemned the atrocities committed by Hamas on Oct. 7. Your misrepresentations of others is as disgusting as RVonse’s racist slurs on other topics.

You pay lip service to the ongoing Hamas atrocities and keep blaming Israel for conducting war in an exemplary fashion.

Exemplary fashion? Hamas still exists, Hamas still has many hostages. Lots of civilians are dead. I'm unimpressed at this exemplary fashion. You can skull fuck the numbers all you want, it has been 11 months since hell fell upon Israel, and Israeli progress against Hamas is questionable at best while hostages are still in captivity, providing a hell only they and their families can understand.

 

[Elixir]

Because "I demand perfection" is a strawman argument. Why would I defend an idea that isn't mine? I criticize trends and behaviors like rampant militarization, lack of executive accountability, and state sponsorship of genocide

The only ones who support "genocide" are the far left idiots who are cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.

You’ve repeated this scurrilous charge many times, and have ignored the many times you have been corrected and put in your place, which is in a corner wearing a dunce cap. The vast majority of protesters are NOT “cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.” We are opposing Israeli genocide against innocent people in Gaza. To the extent that SOME of them MAY be cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah, in most cases it is a reflection of their frustration with Israel’s genocide and U.S. financial and military support of it.

And we are calling wife-beating on this.

You are taking it as a given that there is genocide in Gaza--something that the facts do not support.

Let's be fair, I've seen your side using the G-word too. There has been a lot of needless hyperbole being shot back and forth.

Why does your Ilk never have anything bad to say about them?

Please stop your bullshit. I, others here, and many, many others protesting against Israel have indeed condemned the atrocities committed by Hamas on Oct. 7. Your misrepresentations of others is as disgusting as RVonse’s racist slurs on other topics.

You pay lip service to the ongoing Hamas atrocities and keep blaming Israel for conducting war in an exemplary fashion.

Exemplary fashion? Hamas still exists, Hamas still has many hostages. Lots of civilians are dead. I'm unimpressed at this exemplary fashion. You can skull fuck the numbers all you want, it has been 11 months since hell fell upon Israel, and Israeli progress against Hamas is questionable at best while hostages are still in captivity, providing a hell only they and their families can understand.

Zackly. “Exemplary fashion” doesn’t include killing 10x civilians per combatant.
Fucking Bibi is a war (and other) criminal and Israel will be paying s huge price for coddling him for years or decades to come.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Exemplary fashion? Hamas still exists, Hamas still has many hostages. Lots of civilians are dead. I'm unimpressed at this exemplary fashion. You can skull fuck the numbers all you want, it has been 11 months since hell fell upon Israel, and Israeli progress against Hamas is questionable at best while hostages are still in captivity, providing a hell only they and their families can understand.

Zackly. “Exemplary fashion” doesn’t include killing 10x civilians per combatant.
Fucking Bibi is a war (and other) criminal and Israel will be paying s huge price for coddling him for years or decades to come.

Israel isn't coddling him. Heck, he really wasn't even the coalition leader until he was caught with his pants down and he apparently decided to take political advantage of the slaughter of thousands of Israelis. More importantly, Israel isn't a monolith. Their last several elections have struggled mightily to get a government formed because of how fractured the population is.

 

[Elixir]

Exemplary fashion? Hamas still exists, Hamas still has many hostages. Lots of civilians are dead. I'm unimpressed at this exemplary fashion. You can skull fuck the numbers all you want, it has been 11 months since hell fell upon Israel, and Israeli progress against Hamas is questionable at best while hostages are still in captivity, providing a hell only they and their families can understand.

Zackly. “Exemplary fashion” doesn’t include killing 10x civilians per combatant.
Fucking Bibi is a war (and other) criminal and Israel will be paying s huge price for coddling him for years or decades to come.

Israel isn't coddling him. Heck, he really wasn't even the coalition leader until he was caught with his pants down and he apparently decided to take political advantage of the slaughter of thousands of Israelis. More importantly, Israel isn't a monolith. Their last several elections have struggled mightily to get a government formed because of how fractured the population is.

I don’t want to be blamed for Trump’s family separations either. But “We” are responsible for it. Coddling assholes like Bibi and Dumfuk45 has a cost. The fact that I don’t approve doesn’t exonerate me, let alone “us”. And it certainly doesn’t exempt me from paying the cost.

 

[Elixir]

I don’t want to be blamed for Trump’s family separations either. But “We” are responsible for it. Coddling assholes like Bibi and Dumfuk45 has a cost. The fact that I don’t approve doesn’t exonerate me, let alone “us”. And it certainly doesn’t exempt me from paying the cost.

Although it would be wrong to bomb you for it.

Probably less wrong to bomb me than to bomb most of the Gazans getting bombed. At least I have my eyes open to the atrocities currently being perpetrated by American interests as well as those of Hamas and Israel. I don't expect most Gazans know much more than what Hamas tells them, about anything.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I will happily vote for the person who at least would like to decrease our support for war. Israel isn't the problem. Netanyahu is the problem and unless he is over taken, things will continue. Foreign policy is complicated. Do we want Iran to get more involved and destroy Israel? There is no easy answer to this mess.

And you think opposing Israel will somehow stop Iran?!?!

No. Showing power lessens conflict. Showing friendliness is interpreted as showing weakness and increases conflict.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ha! Perfect!

I accuse Trump of a serious crime, one that I say should have him jailed. Yet this is a crime that would also describe actions of Biden, Obama, and Bush Jr. Therefore nobody acknowledges the crime I accuse Trump of and accuse me of supporting him.

When you are done pretending to be ignored, which of Donald's Trump's indictments do you classify as "lawfare"? Are any of them frivolous and without merit? If you expect to be acknowledged, then you should at least try to acknowledge others. If you want to say that you don't support Trump, that's fine. But it seems reasonable to wonder why heap so much criticism on Democrats and so little on Trump and the party that is the Republican frontrunner.

I already answered you when I said that accusing him of masterminding the J6 protests and of the J6 protests being an insurrection. If you're not going to read my posts, don't bother accusing me of not answering.

Or is your refusal to read my answers proof that I don't answer questions?

Now discuss why you won't touch the Nawar "Nora" al-Awlaki issue. Why do you avoid it? Why are you afraid to talk about it? What about that issue makes you want to discuss literally anything else?

Collateral damage happens in war. Islamist terrorists routinely use their families as human shields. War is hell, this case simply brought a bit of that hell in front of the cameras to use as a weapon against the US.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Because "I demand perfection" is a strawman argument. Why would I defend an idea that isn't mine? I criticize trends and behaviors like rampant militarization, lack of executive accountability, and state sponsorship of genocide

The only ones who support "genocide" are the far left idiots who are cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.

You’ve repeated this scurrilous charge many times, and have ignored the many times you have been corrected and put in your place, which is in a corner wearing a dunce cap. The vast majority of protesters are NOT “cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.” We are opposing Israeli genocide against innocent people in Gaza. To the extent that SOME of them MAY be cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah, in most cases it is a reflection of their frustration with Israel’s genocide and U.S. financial and military support of it.

And we are calling wife-beating on this.

You are taking it as a given that there is genocide in Gaza--something that the facts do not support.

The facts do support it. The Gazan people are being murdered and terrorized, and in fact have been terrorized and effectively imprisoned by Israel for decades.

Try again.

"Murder": No, killing in war is not murder.

"Terrorized": By Hamas.

Imprisoned: They have been moving pretty freely across the Egyptian border--that is, with Hamas permission.

Excuse me, I’m not blaming Israel for “conducting war in an exemplary fashion.” I could not possibly be doing that because obviously I don’t think they are “conducting war in an exemplary fashion.” If I DID think they were doing so, then I obviously wouldn’t be blaming them for anything. I am blaming them for conducting terror and genocide against an innocent and captive population. Strictly speaking this is not even a war, it’s a slaughter.

Reality check: They are doing several times better than anyone else has. You are demanding perfection which is impossible, and thus doing exactly what Hamas wants you to do.

 

[pood]

Because "I demand perfection" is a strawman argument. Why would I defend an idea that isn't mine? I criticize trends and behaviors like rampant militarization, lack of executive accountability, and state sponsorship of genocide

The only ones who support "genocide" are the far left idiots who are cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.

You’ve repeated this scurrilous charge many times, and have ignored the many times you have been corrected and put in your place, which is in a corner wearing a dunce cap. The vast majority of protesters are NOT “cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.” We are opposing Israeli genocide against innocent people in Gaza. To the extent that SOME of them MAY be cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah, in most cases it is a reflection of their frustration with Israel’s genocide and U.S. financial and military support of it.

And we are calling wife-beating on this.

You are taking it as a given that there is genocide in Gaza--something that the facts do not support.

The facts do support it. The Gazan people are being murdered and terrorized, and in fact have been terrorized and effectively imprisoned by Israel for decades.

Try again.

"Murder": No, killing in war is not murder.

"Terrorized": By Hamas.

Imprisoned: They have been moving pretty freely across the Egyptian border--that is, with Hamas permission.

Excuse me, I’m not blaming Israel for “conducting war in an exemplary fashion.” I could not possibly be doing that because obviously I don’t think they are “conducting war in an exemplary fashion.” If I DID think they were doing so, then I obviously wouldn’t be blaming them for anything. I am blaming them for conducting terror and genocide against an innocent and captive population. Strictly speaking this is not even a war, it’s a slaughter.

Reality check: They are doing several times better than anyone else has. You are demanding perfection which is impossible, and thus doing exactly what Hamas wants you to do.

Doing several times better than anyone else has, at WHAT? Terrorizing Gaza, destroying their homes and infrastructure, and killing tens of thousands of Gazans? Yes, they are doing better than anyone else has at that, because no one else has done it, or is doing it, except Israel.

As to this “exemplary” business, even putting aside the immorality of their slaughter, perhaps you mean the war is “exemplary” in its aim of eliminating Hamas. If so, I refer you to an NY Times article from several weeks back about how Hamas is STRONGER now in Gaza, than before the war began.

And what would you expect? For every Hamas member killed, Israel is sowing the seeds of a hundred replacements, and tens of thousands of replacements in the decades ahead. The war is a Hamas-spawning machine. Gaza and the Palestinians will despise Israel more than ever for what it has done to them over the last year, and will make Israel pay in every way that it can.

Finally, the war has done nothing to free most of the hostages, and most of them are probably dead by now. So that’s another failure.

And what is the real driving force behind this immoral debacle that you incomprehensibly support? Nothing more than Netanyahu’s desire to stay in power.

There’s your real reality check.

 

[Politesse]

"Murder": No, killing in war is not murder.

Well, that's a load of horse-shit. Obviously, you recognize one of the constituent nations involved in this dispute and not the other, so to you one side of the war are "soldiers" and the other are "terrorrists". It is painfully obvious that this is not a consistent moral argument. If this is a "war", then either both sides of that war should have your moral permission to rip the faces off of children, mail the remains to their parents and not consider it technically murder, or neither party should have that permission. IF this is a war between nation-states, then Hamas is a government, and its soldiers should be allowed to kill wihoever they feel like without incurring personal responsibility. IF this is not a war, if this is a police action, then Israel's soldiers are killing Israeli citizens and should be no more or less culpable for those actions than they would be if they were killing little Jewish children in the middle of downtown Hadera. So tell me, is this a war or not?

 

[pood]

Because "I demand perfection" is a strawman argument. Why would I defend an idea that isn't mine? I criticize trends and behaviors like rampant militarization, lack of executive accountability, and state sponsorship of genocide

The only ones who support "genocide" are the far left idiots who are cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.

You’ve repeated this scurrilous charge many times, and have ignored the many times you have been corrected and put in your place, which is in a corner wearing a dunce cap. The vast majority of protesters are NOT “cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah.” We are opposing Israeli genocide against innocent people in Gaza. To the extent that SOME of them MAY be cheering on Hamas and Hezbollah, in most cases it is a reflection of their frustration with Israel’s genocide and U.S. financial and military support of it.

And we are calling wife-beating on this.

You are taking it as a given that there is genocide in Gaza--something that the facts do not support.

The facts do support it. The Gazan people are being murdered and terrorized, and in fact have been terrorized and effectively imprisoned by Israel for decades.

Try again.

"Murder": No, killing in war is not murder.

Killing SOLDIERS fighting against you is not murder. Wantonly and indiscriminately killing civilians who had nothing to do with the Hamas attack is MURDER. More, at this scale, it is GENOCIDE.

And please don’t let’s compare this to, say, a conventional war such as the one against Nazi Germany, in which plenty of civilians were killed. The allies were fighting a HUGE war machine that had to be defeated. Hamas has no such machine, and their people, — already mired in poverty and want and misery BEFORE this disaster because of Israel — are now dying in droves, and probably a lot of the survivors envy the dead.

 

[pood]

Oh, and what about this Israeli minister, Loren? Starving two millions Gazans isn’t genocide? And he came right out and admitted that the only reason they aren’t doing just that is because the world won’t let them. So they are conducting a slower genocide instead, using bombs and bullets against innocent and defenseless civilians, a huge number of them children.

 

[pood]

I might finally add that just before Israel began its attack one of their top generals stated that their orders were to turn the whole of Gaza into a “tent city” — and nearly a year later that is exactly what they are doing. Forcible movement of civilians and destruction of their habitations is an international war crime. Netanyahu belongs before the Hague.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/06/middleeast/american-activist-killed-west-bank-intl/index.html

American activist shot dead by Israeli forces at West Bank protest, eyewitnesses say

(CNN) — A young Turkish-American woman, Aysenur Eygi, was shot and killed in the Israeli-occupied West Bank on Friday, according to US and Palestinian officials, while she was taking part in a protest near Nablus.

Eygi was shot in the head by Israeli forces responding to the gathering, according to two eyewitnesses who spoke to CNN. The 26-year-old had been participating in a weekly protest against an Israeli settlement near the Palestinian village of Beita, they also said.

 

[laughing dog]

I also resent your claim that I am paying “lip service” to Hamas atrocities. I have and do fully condemn them.

Yet you blame Israel for the atrocity that Hamas engineered in Gaza and we are seeing play out. The atrocity they are using to try to get the world to stop Israel.

Israel is responsible for its choices it makes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Zackly. “Exemplary fashion” doesn’t include killing 10x civilians per combatant.
Fucking Bibi is a war (and other) criminal and Israel will be paying s huge price for coddling him for years or decades to come.

Check your memory. 10x is the typical ratio. Gaza looks like about 1.4x by raw numbers 1.1x excluding the known bad data.

 

[Elixir]

Zackly. “Exemplary fashion” doesn’t include killing 10x civilians per combatant.
Fucking Bibi is a war (and other) criminal and Israel will be paying s huge price for coddling him for years or decades to come.

Check your memory. 10x is the typical ratio. Gaza looks like about 1.4x by raw numbers 1.1x excluding the known bad data.

Who told you that Loren?
There’s no such thing as “bad data” on this level. If it’s bad it’s not data. But I’m sure categories can be manipulated to make some kind of irrelevant case for the “exemplary” nature of Bibi’s genocidal campaign to preserve his own freedom.