Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Rhea]

Retaliation, payback, vengeance, collective punishment, kill one of ours, we’ll kill twenty of yours.

What a horrible, horrible way to live.

 

[laughing dog]

.

Retaliation, payback, vengeance, collective punishment, kill one of ours, we’ll kill twenty of yours.

What a horrible, horrible way to live.

And to not live.

 

[Tigers!]

Retaliation, payback, vengeance, collective punishment, kill one of ours, we’ll kill twenty of yours.

What a horrible, horrible way to live.

It is indeed

 

[Harry Bosch]

Retaliation, payback, vengeance, collective punishment, kill one of ours, we’ll kill twenty of yours.

What a horrible, horrible way to live.

Well, Hezbollah attacks Israel every single day. They started the war against Israel on October 8. They've killed many civilians including 8 children playing soccer recently. I'd recommend to Hezbollah to stop their attacks on Israel and maybe Israel will stop attacking them. If the war continues, it will be far far worse for Lebanese civilians.

 

[Politesse]

Don't worry I'm sure once every last Gazan is dead, the Muslim world will be scared and never attack Israel again. Peace forevermore, that's what genocide is all about.

 

[Arctish]

Retaliation, payback, vengeance, collective punishment, kill one of ours, we’ll kill twenty of yours.

What a horrible, horrible way to live.

Well, Hezbollah attacks Israel every single day. They started the war against Israel on October 8. They've killed many civilians including 8 children playing soccer recently. I'd recommend to Hezbollah to stop their attacks on Israel and maybe Israel will stop attacking them. If the war continues, it will be far far worse for Lebanese civilians.

It's unlikely that a mere ceasefire will resolve the conflict between Israel and the Lebanese people, especially with the Shia Muslims in the south of Lebanon in the Shebaa Farms area and the villages that were under Occupation in the 1980s-1990s. Israel might form an alliance with one of the factions in Lebanon to control the others but that strategy hasn't paid off in the past.

And besides that, Israel has a terrible reputation among the Lebanese. They have good reason to believe Israel doesn't give a flying frack whether it kills militants or civilians with pager bombs, cluster bombs, blowing up bridges and other infrastructure, etc. And they have good reason to believe the current Israeli government wants more Zionist colonization of Lebanese territory.

Honestly, I think the only way Israel can have peace is to declare its final borders, treat everyone inside them with respect and fairness regardless of race/religion/ethnic heritage, and to forge mutually beneficial relations with its neighbors. That might not be sufficient, but IMO it's necessary.

 

[steve_bank]

I listened to an old interview on NPR with Jimmy Carter about his book Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid. He was quite direct and blunt in the interview. Certainly not anti Israel, but highly criticall of Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine:_Peace_Not_Apartheid

The book is primarily based on talks, hosted by Carter during his presidency, between Menachem Begin of Israel and Anwar Sadat of Egypt that led to the Egypt–Israel peace treaty.
In this book Carter argues that Israel's continued control and construction of settlements have been the primary obstacles to a comprehensive peace agreement in the Middle East.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine:_Peace_Not_Apartheid#cite_note-chap17-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a> That perspective, coupled with the use of the word Apartheid in the titular phrase Peace Not Apartheid, and what critics said were errors and misstatements in the book, sparked controversy. Carter has defended his book and countered that response to it "in the real world…has been overwhelmingly positive."<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine:_Peace_Not_Apartheid#cite_note-latimes-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>

"Some major points"​

In his op-ed "Reiterating the Keys to Peace", published in The Boston Globe on 20 December 2006, Carter summarizes "ome major points in the book":

• Multiple deaths of innocent civilians have occurred on both sides, and this violence and all terrorism must cease
• For 39 years, Israel has occupied Palestinian land, and has confiscated and colonized hundreds of choice sites
• Often excluded from their former homes, land, and places of worship, protesting Palestinians have been severely dominated and oppressed. There is forced segregation between Israeli settlers and Palestine's citizens, with a complex pass system required for Arabs to traverse Israel's multiple checkpoints
• An enormous wall snakes through populated areas of what is left of the West Bank, constructed on wide swaths of bulldozed trees and property of Arab families, obviously designed to acquire more territory and to protect the Israeli colonies already built. (Hamas declared a unilateral cease-fire in August 2004 as its candidates sought local and then national offices, which they claim is the reason for reductions in casualties to Israeli citizens.)
• Combined with this wall, Israeli control of the Jordan River Valley will completely enclose Palestinians in their shrunken and divided territory. Gaza is surrounded by a similar barrier with only two openings, still controlled by Israel. The crowded citizens have no free access to the outside world by air, sea, or land
• The Palestinian people are now being deprived of the necessities of life by economic restrictions imposed on them by Israel and the United States because 42 percent voted for Hamas candidates in this year's election. Teachers, nurses, policemen, firemen and other employees cannot be paid, and the UN has reported food supplies in Gaza equivalent to those among the poorest families in sub-Sahara Africa, with half the families surviving on one meal a day
• Mahmoud Abbas, first as prime minister and now as president of the Palestinian National Authority and leader of the PLO, has sought to negotiate with Israel for almost six years, without success. Hamas leaders support such negotiations, promising to accept the results if approved by a Palestinian referendum
• UN Resolutions, the Camp David Accords of 1978, the Oslo Agreement of 1993, official US Policy, and the International Roadmap for Peace are all based on the premise that Israel withdraw from occupied territories. Also, Palestinians must accept the same commitment made by the 23 Arab nations in 2002: to recognize Israel's right to live in peace within its legal borders. These are the two keys to peace<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine:_Peace_Not_Apartheid#cite_note-reiterating-8"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a>

 

[steve_bank]

From Woodward's new book.

“That son of a bitch, Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy. He’s a bad fucking guy!” Biden declared privately about the Israeli prime minister to one of his associates in the spring of 2024 as Israel’s war in Gaza intensified, Woodward writes.

 

[Harry Bosch]

From Woodward's new book.

“That son of a bitch, Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy. He’s a bad fucking guy!” Biden declared privately about the Israeli prime minister to one of his associates in the spring of 2024 as Israel’s war in Gaza intensified, Woodward writes.

Most Israelis agree.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

in a hostage situation that usually means a sniper shot to the head. But it can mean a sniper shot that takes out the control of the weapon. Or the weapon itself if the situation permits (it usually doesn't as shooting a gun is prone to cause it to fire.)

This is pure Hollywood.

None of that is real, most of it isn't even possible outside of the movies, and the rest is far too risky to ever be useful for real hostage situations.

You should be far mlre skeptocal of those elements of your "knowledge" that derive from fiction, even if the souce is tagged with "Based on true events".

There have been real world shots meant to cut control. I'm thinking of a case where the perp had taped a shotgun to the hostage's head and taped his hand to the gun. I forget exactly what the sniper hit but it was some part of the arm.

I don't remember that one, but then I was never much of a fan of 1980s action movies. I only saw Lethal Weapon 2 because everyone was going on about the scene with the exploding dunny.

I'm not talking action movie, this was from something talking about real police situations. The guy had taped together the whole hand/gun/hostage situation to ensure there was no way to knock the gun aside. Had they simply shot him there was a substantial risk the gun would have gone off.

According to Mythbusters, the escape shown in the film was surprisingly plausible, as plastic explosive really does exhibit a delay in detonation when cold.

No. Nothing to do with plastic explosive. There were two things at work there: normal detonators are based on heat. If it starts out really cold it's going to take longer to warm to detonation temperature. But that only gave a few milliseconds. The main effect was that when they froze the whole thing is simply wouldn't fire. Well, duh, batteries don't like LN2 temperatures!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That issue has been addressed many times in here: Palestinian access to quick efficient emergency medical service is either lacking in their area or blocked by Israel policy/action.

Palestinian EMS has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in Yemen.

And the reason Palestinian EMS is blocked is that they have repeatedly used it for military purposes and have refused to even declare that to be wrong.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Retaliation, payback, vengeance, collective punishment, kill one of ours, we’ll kill twenty of yours.

What a horrible, horrible way to live.

Well, Hezbollah attacks Israel every single day. They started the war against Israel on October 8. They've killed many civilians including 8 children playing soccer recently. I'd recommend to Hezbollah to stop their attacks on Israel and maybe Israel will stop attacking them. If the war continues, it will be far far worse for Lebanese civilians.

It's unlikely that a mere ceasefire will resolve the conflict between Israel and the Lebanese people, especially with the Shia Muslims in the south of Lebanon in the Shebaa Farms area and the villages that were under Occupation in the 1980s-1990s. Israel might form an alliance with one of the factions in Lebanon to control the others but that strategy hasn't paid off in the past.

Shebaa Farms is Syrian. Lebanon and Syria got together to pretend it was Lebanese in order for Israel to still be occupying "Lebanon."

And besides that, Israel has a terrible reputation among the Lebanese. They have good reason to believe Israel doesn't give a flying frack whether it kills militants or civilians with pager bombs, cluster bombs, blowing up bridges and other infrastructure, etc. And they have good reason to believe the current Israeli government wants more Zionist colonization of Lebanese territory.

If Israel doesn't give a flying frack then why did the locals go away from the Hezbollah command that Israel recently leveled? If the attacks are indiscriminate there is no benefit to going someplace else. You only move if you believe you're near something the enemy will target--and that inherently implies they are targeting. Yet Israel leveled 4 apartment buildings with an end result of apparently 11 civilians dead in addition to a whole bunch of Hezbollah CNC.

Honestly, I think the only way Israel can have peace is to declare its final borders, treat everyone inside them with respect and fairness regardless of race/religion/ethnic heritage, and to forge mutually beneficial relations with its neighbors. That might not be sufficient, but IMO it's necessary.

Have some unobtaininium with which to accomplish the relations part?

You're still ignoring the fact that the fundamental driving force is the Islamist money (mostly Iran) pouring into the situation for the express purpose of continuing the violence.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Retaliation, payback, vengeance, collective punishment, kill one of ours, we’ll kill twenty of yours.

What a horrible, horrible way to live.

Well, Hezbollah attacks Israel every single day. They started the war against Israel on October 8. They've killed many civilians including 8 children playing soccer recently. I'd recommend to Hezbollah to stop their attacks on Israel and maybe Israel will stop attacking them. If the war continues, it will be far far worse for Lebanese civilians.

It's unlikely that a mere ceasefire will resolve the conflict between Israel and the Lebanese people, especially with the Shia Muslims in the south of Lebanon in the Shebaa Farms area and the villages that were under Occupation in the 1980s-1990s. Israel might form an alliance with one of the factions in Lebanon to control the others but that strategy hasn't paid off in the past.

Shebaa Farms is Syrian. Lebanon and Syria got together to pretend it was Lebanese in order for Israel to still be occupying "Lebanon."

And besides that, Israel has a terrible reputation among the Lebanese. They have good reason to believe Israel doesn't give a flying frack whether it kills militants or civilians with pager bombs, cluster bombs, blowing up bridges and other infrastructure, etc. And they have good reason to believe the current Israeli government wants more Zionist colonization of Lebanese territory.

If Israel doesn't give a flying frack then why did the locals go away from the Hezbollah command that Israel recently leveled? If the attacks are indiscriminate there is no benefit to going someplace else. You only move if you believe you're near something the enemy will target--and that inherently implies they are targeting. Yet Israel leveled 4 apartment buildings with an end result of apparently 11 civilians dead in addition to a whole bunch of Hezbollah CNC.

Honestly, I think the only way Israel can have peace is to declare its final borders, treat everyone inside them with respect and fairness regardless of race/religion/ethnic heritage, and to forge mutually beneficial relations with its neighbors. That might not be sufficient, but IMO it's necessary.

Have some unobtaininium with which to accomplish the relations part?

You're still ignoring the fact that the fundamental driving force is the Islamist money (mostly Iran) pouring into the situation for the express purpose of continuing the violence.

Yes, I think that peace in the short term is not obtainable. But I do think that declaring a final border would settle some of the issues away. Israel’s international support would go up. They will always have some neighbors who can’t give up right of return. But control what you can control. Personally, I think that much of the anti Israel bias will go away if the crazy religious Jews who think that they are entitled to all of “Judea” because it says so on the Bible are “denutted”. But this won’t happen as long as bibi is in office.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, I think that peace in the short term is not obtainable. But I do think that declaring a final border would settle some of the issues away. Israel’s international support would go up. They will always have some neighbors who can’t give up right of return. But control what you can control. Personally, I think that much of the anti Israel bias will go away if the crazy religious Jews who think that they are entitled to all of “Judea” because it says so on the Bible are “denutted”. But this won’t happen as long as bibi is in office.

Actually, it would hurt Israel.

There's no way it would help because it's not what really happens that gets reported in the first place. When faced with the choice of reporting terrorist PR or having no access to report anything from a big news story pretty much all news organizations cave.

However, the track record is any concessions by Israel are seen as weakness and bring greater attacks. Never once have concessions ended up being a good outcome, yet it keeps being trotted out as a way to improve the situation. Quit being Charlie Brown.

 

[Shadowy Man]

From Woodward's new book.

“That son of a bitch, Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy. He’s a bad fucking guy!” Biden declared privately about the Israeli prime minister to one of his associates in the spring of 2024 as Israel’s war in Gaza intensified, Woodward writes.

Most Israelis agree.

As if the people of Israel know what's better for Israel than American conservatives...

 

[Tigers!]

From Woodward's new book.

“That son of a bitch, Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy. He’s a bad fucking guy!” Biden declared privately about the Israeli prime minister to one of his associates in the spring of 2024 as Israel’s war in Gaza intensified, Woodward writes.

Most Israelis agree.

As if the people of Israel know what's better for Israel than Americans conservatives...

FIFY

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's an excellent video on the Palestinian situation

 

[steve_bank]

From Woodward's new book.

“That son of a bitch, Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy. He’s a bad fucking guy!” Biden declared privately about the Israeli prime minister to one of his associates in the spring of 2024 as Israel’s war in Gaza intensified, Woodward writes.

Most Israelis agree.

I don't think Israelis think Netiquette is bad guy morally in the sense Biden meant it.

Israelis support the attacks on Lebanon and don't worry much about collateral damage.

They are unhappy with Netanyahu for not getting hostages back and not bringing the war to an end.

I doubt many Israelis see Palestiniansas anything but trash.

You probably know as well as I do Israel has wide support by conservative Christians, tied to prophesier and religion. It would be political suicide for a politician to publicly speak directly and bluntly about Israel.

Netanyahu and conserve Israelis have waged a decades long propaganda war over here. Is rel is the proteror of the Holy Land. Relgious tours for Christamnd.

ave you seen thse long runng TV ads by theInyernational Federation Of Chrtians And Jews? Alleged tearful surivors of the Holacust askng for meny to eat. It is fuded bt0y Israel.

TV ads shwng alleged starvng Jews in Isarel due to the Gaza war.


Netnyahu has payed Americann conservatve Chistians like a fiddle.

 

[Tigers!]

Here's an excellent video on the Palestinian situation

I am always saddened that these people who are marching when Jews and Arabs/Muslims fight are not to be seen when Arabs/Muslims fight each other.
Where were they during the Syrian Civil War? The Sudanese Civil ware is still raging. Who marches for peace there?
The Lebanese Civil war had no marchers
The Taliban is oppressing the Afghans, yet again. Where are the marchers?
And so on.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here's an excellent video on the Palestinian situation

I am always saddened that these people who are marching when Jews and Arabs/Muslims fight are not to be seen when Arabs/Muslims fight each other.
Where were they during the Syrian Civil War? The Sudanese Civil ware is still raging. Who marches for peace there?
The Lebanese Civil war had no marchers
The Taliban is oppressing the Afghans, yet again. Where are the marchers?
And so on.

And keep in mind the societies involved.

Yazidi woman kidnapped by ISIS in Iraq rescued from Gaza by Israel

Foreign Ministry says Fawzia Amin Sido was taken captive at 11 and sold to terror group supporter in Gaza, where she was held for 10 years before being reunited with her family

www.ynetnews.com

Here's an actual sex slave. Held in Gaza, liberated by Israel.