There is nothing inevitable about ethnic cleansing. It's a choice bigoted assholes make and indifferent assholes allow, not the destiny of Semitic people to either give or receive.
You choose to ignore that the Palestinians have been calling for ethnic cleansing for decades. They'll suddenly give up that goal if they get in a position to actually do it??
Even if you could substantiate the claim that some Palestinians have been calling for ethnic cleansing (which I doubt since you rarely can substantiate anything you claim), you'd still be unable to show how they'd be able to carry out such a campaign.
Hamas couldn't do it. They don't have enough fighters or enough international support. Fatah can't even get illegal settlers out of the West Bank. But somehow declaring borders and building sustainable communities can make ethnic cleansing happen?
Your argument here is nothing but racist fear mongering and fantasy.
Your idea of peaceful coexistence isn't going to work. It didn't work in India, either--and that was bloodier and more displacement than anything around Israel.
It worked for centuries before the British took over and Europeans began flooding into the area. It worked so well that Palestinian Jews were willing to risk their lives by confronting Zionist terrorists carrying out Plan Dalet to make them stop murdering Palestinian Muslims and Christians. It worked so well that Palestinian Muslims and Christians fleeing murderous Zionists gave the keys to their houses to Palestinian Jews in the nearby towns because they trusted their friends and longtime neighbors to look after their property until they could return.
I was pointing out
India. The India/Pakistan partition makes Israel/Palestine look benign.
Yes, I saw. I presume you want to talk about India because
I was comparing the situation. We have two places that were divided between Muslim and non-Muslim after the colonial powers left. It's the logical thing to compare to!
Apples and oranges are both fruits.
Did the Hindu and Muslim citizens of the various kingdoms that became vassal states of the British Raj have peaceful relations for centuries before armed Europeans showed up? Were their relations so friendly that Hindus sheltered Muslims and Muslims sheltered Hindus when violent bigoted assholes were murdering people?
Do you want to examine the history of the region or just make shit up?
1. you want to bash Muslims and you think you can portray Hindus as victims, and
It was bloody on both sides and continues to be a problem to this day.
2. you don't want to talk about the centuries of friendly, peaceful relations between Palestinian Jews and their Muslim and Christian neighbors.
The peace of blacks under Jim Crow.
Bullshit.
I know you want to use that line about a slave rebellion because it makes the Zionist invasion sound noble, but it's akin to Lost Cause mythology. Palestinian Jews weren't enslaved and didn't live under Jim Crow laws. And even if they had, it wasn't the Palestinians who made the laws or enforced them. It was the Ottoman Turks.
Palestinian Christians, Druze, Baha'i, and adherents of other non-Muslim religions all paid an extra tax. That was it. That was the only difference between them and the Shiite and Sunni Muslims under Ottoman rule.
And I will remind you once again, the Palestinian Jews weren't the ones forcing their neighbors out. It was the European immigrants who did that. Yet another difference between the Levant and the Indian subcontinent.
If you really want to talk about India before, during, and after the British Raj, go ahead and start a new thread. Don't forget to mention the burning people alive part, though. It's an important part of the story.
I was comparing the post-colonial events.
Then start a new thread and show your sources.
How about reigning in the Palestinians?
A Jew who goes down the wrong street very well might end up dead. A Palestinian won't.
How about equal treatment under the law?
How about addressing the issue?
Equal treatment under the law
is the issue.
Human rights and not being shitty towards people who have different ideas about Biblegod is the issue.
Racism and religious bigotry enshrined as national policy is the issue.
There's also greed and cultural chauvinism at work, but first things first.
You act as if it's only Israel who does wrong. I'm pointing out that a Jew who takes a wrong turn very well might end up dead and you don't think that matters.
I do think it matters.
It
always matters when people are attacked, harassed, bullied, and murdered, and I have always said so.
I have also said that I believe working toward a just and fair society where the equal rights of all persons are respected regardless of race, religion, sex, gender, religion, or creed is the best way to proceed, whereas supporting a society in which racism and bigotry are enshrined is the worst.
Also, that stealing from other people makes them angry, and beating and imprisoning them because they're angry makes them angrier.
How about taking race, religion, and ethnic origin out of the equation when considering what should be done when crimes are committed?
And how does it make a difference? Yes, settler crimes against Palestinians are effectively ignored because they're impossible to prosecute, not because they're above the law. With no cooperation from the Palestinians the police can't even determine if a crime was committed, let alone who did it. (Many of the allegations are clearly false.)
^This is bullshit.^
I'm making two claims here, which are you calling bullshit?
All of it is bullshit.
The reason you give for why crimes committed by settlers are effectively ignored is bullshit, your claim that the Palestinians don't cooperate with the police is bullshit, and your claim that many of the allegations are "clearly false" is clearly bullshit.
Off the top of my head: Many of the pictures of ripping out "olive" trees aren't olive trees at all and not a tree anyone would cultivate.
How about working towards a fair and just society and away from a society where bigotry is enshrined and racist assholes protected?
And you think you can reform the Palestinians? Because they are far more guilty of this than Israel.
^This is bullshit plus racism.^
In other words, you have no actual rebuttal.
That's the nature of bullshit. There's nothing of substance to rebut. It's just words.
What I said applies equally to Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druze, and any and all religious and ethnic groups.
What don't you like about working towards a fair and just society and away from a society where bigotry is enshrined and racist assholes are protected? Be specific.
Fatah never tried diplomacy. Sham talks to see what they could get but no willingness to agree to a partition of the territory. Oslo was a case of can-kicking, not a true partition.
^This is an unsupported assertion that appears to be a perfect blend of bullshit, racism, ignorance, and handwaving.^
The Palestinians want their State. They jumped through enough hoops to demonstrate their willingness to jump through hoops to get it. Now it's the Israelis turn to prove their willingness. They can start by letting everyone know where Israel ends and Not-Israel begins.
Nope, they never demonstrated their willingness. At no point have they presented a
viable two-state solution.
Goal post shifting noted.
Prove your claims. You can start with the claim that Fatah never tried diplomacy. Show us the history of Fatah political strategy and policies.
You and the Israelis should want Fatah to succeed in their diplomacy. I think on some level you do. It's just that Israel wants all of the land it calls Eretz Israel under Israeli control more than it wants Fatah to succeed in defending the Palestinians.
I'd like it if they succeeded but they inherently can't.
They "inherently" can't?
How very anti-Semitic of you to think so.
Has nothing to do with who they are. It has to do with their own laws.
Which laws are those?
Support your claims. Show us the links.
By their law agreeing to a partition carries the death penalty.
You suggested putting a porcupine on Israel's flag as an appropriate symbol of what happens when you mess with it. I think it would be even more appropriate if the flag showed someone trying to swallow a porcupine as a symbol of why Israel still doesn't have a border, and why Israelis still don't have peace.
Israel doesn't have peace because they are the Muslim EastAsia.
Israel doesn't have peace because it keeps stealing land and resources from people in the West Bank, imprisoning millions of civilians in Gaza, and the last Israeli leader who was serious about a peace deal with the Palestinians was murdered by a Zionist for "betraying Zionism".
You blame Israel while ignoring the fact that Fatah has set itself up as completely unable to make peace. Settling for anything less than total victory (destruction of Israel) carries the death penalty. Trying to change that law carries the death penalty. By what path is Fatah supposed to reach peace?
Prove your claims. Loren.
Show us the links to your sources.
