Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

Keir Starmer, Emmanuel Macron, Mark Carney and Anthony Albanese doing a great job as useful idiots.

‘Palestinian State is One of the Fruits of October 7’: Emboldened Hamas Credits Its Violence for Gains as Released Hostage Video Spurs Outcry

Hamas Official Praises October 7 Atrocities: Qatar-based senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad claimed that Hamas’s October 7, 2023, atrocities in Israel spurred Western nations to recognize a Palestinian state. “The initiative by several countries to recognize a Palestinian state is one of the fruits of October 7. We proved that victory over Israel is not impossible, and our weapons are a symbol of Palestinian dignity,” Hamad said during an August 2 interview. His comments came after France, the United Kingdom, Canada, and Malta announced in recent weeks that their governments would officially recognize Palestinian statehood during the UN General Assembly meeting to be held in September. Hamad added, “Without our weapons, no one would be looking in our direction.”

I don't get it either. What's their goal with this? The guarantee endless bloodshed in Israel? It's like after WW2 the west would have just reversed course told Hitler they were sorry and give Germany back to him.

Keir Starmer, Emmanuel Macron, Mark Carney and Anthony Albanese doing a great job as useful idiots.

‘Palestinian State is One of the Fruits of October 7’: Emboldened Hamas Credits Its Violence for Gains as Released Hostage Video Spurs Outcry

Hamas Official Praises October 7 Atrocities: Qatar-based senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad claimed that Hamas’s October 7, 2023, atrocities in Israel spurred Western nations to recognize a Palestinian state. “The initiative by several countries to recognize a Palestinian state is one of the fruits of October 7. We proved that victory over Israel is not impossible, and our weapons are a symbol of Palestinian dignity,” Hamad said during an August 2 interview. His comments came after France, the United Kingdom, Canada, and Malta announced in recent weeks that their governments would officially recognize Palestinian statehood during the UN General Assembly meeting to be held in September. Hamad added, “Without our weapons, no one would be looking in our direction.”

You might want to redo the calcs on your diplomatic conclusion. Carney's statement indicates that Hamas isn't involved with the government in Palestine. These statements are generally indicating they are creating a placeholder for a state of Palestine, once it actually gets a government and isn't influenced by terrorism. IE, nothing has changed.

It is effectively an Emancipation Proclamation which is directed not at Palestine or Israel, but the Middle East and Iran, effectively calling their bluff on caring about Palestine.

Unless there's a viable party in Gaza not hell bent on murdering all Jews, its going nowhere positive.

Unless they manage to find a Palestinian, in Gaza or in exile, who has any influence in the community, willing to live in peace with Jews, that declaration is just more antisemitism.

It impresses me how positive you are about your responses to posts you didn't even bother to read. The point of the declaration is to call the bluff of the Middle East and Iran regarding the Palestinians.

Who's bluff and about what? Iran and Hamas have managed to figure out how to use western weakness against itself, ie that we respect agreements and laws. While they couldn't give less of a shit. Statehood or not means nothing to Iran. They just want whatever that will stop Israel from destroying Hamas.

There's no evidence anywhere Palestinians have any interest in peaceful co-existance with Jews.

That sounds like a declaration for genocide from you against the Palestinians.

Why do you think that's what it sounds like? I'm just trying to follow your line of thought? If there is one.

What it looks like is Gazans being rewarded for the 7/10 attack and that they refuse to give up the hostages. Its not a good look for UK or France

Yup, you want them exterminated.

What are you talking about?

 

[Tigers!]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

 

[bilby]

Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al.

All had cult followings that look exactly like religions to me. They were God Kings in the style of the ancient Roman and not so ancient Japanese empires.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18507857

In some parts of Georgia, Stalin is still worshipped as a God.

https://www.new-east-archive.org/features/show/7954/red-nostalgia-stalin-worship-georgia-photography

 

[TomC]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

Exactly.
By turning Marxist communism into a state religion with Stalin or whoever as the High Priest. Then proceeding to behave like any other religious elite.
"Believe and Obey! or die..."
Tom

 

[DrZoidberg]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

Exactly.
By turning Marxist communism into a state religion with Stalin or whoever as the High Priest. Then proceeding to behave like any other religious elite.
"Believe and Obey! or die..."
Tom

The list of philosophers who equate communism with Christianity is pretty long. Communism wouldn't be possible without Christian thought preceeding it.

Both Christians and communists have this thing about fixating on the differences that they go blind to the extremely many similarities. European post Christian secularism, ie Humanism, is completely a product of Christianity. Both Communism and Humanism have the same philosophical ancestor, Christian Humanism.

I think Christianity and Communism have so many similarities I think it's silly to separate them as different theologies. They're extremely similar. Weirdly Communists tend to be better Christians than Christians. Christians are supposed to be totalitarian and intolerant of discenting views. Something Communists are way better at. They're also better at making everyone poor. A Christian virtue

 

[Tigers!]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

Exactly.
By turning Marxist communism into a state religion with Stalin or whoever as the High Priest. Then proceeding to behave like any other religious elite.
"Believe and Obey! or die..."
Tom

The list of philosophers who equate communism with Christianity is pretty long. Communism wouldn't be possible without Christian thought preceeding it.

Communism has been equated as a heretic Christian sect on occasions.

Both Christians and communists have this thing about fixating on the differences that they go blind to the extremely many similarities. European post Christian secularism, ie Humanism, is completely a product of Christianity. Both Communism and Humanism have the same philosophical ancestor, Christian Humanism.

I think Christianity and Communism have so many similarities I think it's silly to separate them as different theologies. They're extremely similar. Weirdly Communists tend to be better Christians than Christians. Christians are supposed to be totalitarian and intolerant of discenting views. Something Communists are way better at. They're also better at making everyone poor. A Christian virtue

I did not realise that it was a Christian virtue to make everyone poor. Do you have a scriptural reference to that? I should like to look that up.

 

[robnisch]

Well, if you think about it Monasteries were the first real communist.

 

[DrZoidberg]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

Exactly.
By turning Marxist communism into a state religion with Stalin or whoever as the High Priest. Then proceeding to behave like any other religious elite.
"Believe and Obey! or die..."
Tom

The list of philosophers who equate communism with Christianity is pretty long. Communism wouldn't be possible without Christian thought preceeding it.

Communism has been equated as a heretic Christian sect on occasions.

Heretic? I'd argue they do Christianity way better than modern Christians.

I don't have a problem with this. Healthy religion evolves and changes over time. Like Christianity has. But Christians have this thing about fetishising correct and original Christianity. So it's funny to point it out. But no religion could survive if it didn't adapt to its times. I know that. And I like Christianity. I'm not an anti-religious atheist. I am a very pro religious atheist. I'm the kind of atheists who believes that if God didn't exist we'd have to invent one.

Both Christians and communists have this thing about fixating on the differences that they go blind to the extremely many similarities. European post Christian secularism, ie Humanism, is completely a product of Christianity. Both Communism and Humanism have the same philosophical ancestor, Christian Humanism.

I think Christianity and Communism have so many similarities I think it's silly to separate them as different theologies. They're extremely similar. Weirdly Communists tend to be better Christians than Christians. Christians are supposed to be totalitarian and intolerant of discenting views. Something Communists are way better at. They're also better at making everyone poor. A Christian virtue

I did not realise that it was a Christian virtue to make everyone poor. Do you have a scriptural reference to that? I should like to look that up.

The most famous one is:
Matthew 19:24

But the list is really long. And if you include the Old Testament... the list is super long.

• Matthew 5:3 (Beatitudes)
  “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
• Luke 6:20 (parallel Beatitudes, but starker)
  “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.”
• Luke 16:19–31 (Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus)
  Lazarus, a poor beggar, is carried to Abraham’s side, while the rich man ends up in torment.
• Luke 21:1–4 (The Widow’s Offering)
  A poor widow puts in two small coins; Jesus says she gave more than all the rich, because she gave out of poverty.
• James 2:5
  “Has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?”
• 2 Corinthians 8:9
  “For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.”

Yes, I know the context and I know why these passages are here and what they're trying to imply. But taken out of context and read as is, Christianity clearly equates being rich with being sinful. The only good Christian is one that has renounced all worldly possesions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

Exactly.
By turning Marxist communism into a state religion with Stalin or whoever as the High Priest. Then proceeding to behave like any other religious elite.
"Believe and Obey! or die..."
Tom

The list of philosophers who equate communism with Christianity is pretty long. Communism wouldn't be possible without Christian thought preceeding it.

Communism and Socialism came about because of suffering. People thinking there had to be a better way. Socialism and Communism on their own wouldn't be a better way, but marrying socialism with capitalism would prove effective. It'd take Christianity 1700 or so years to get to Locke and Hobbes.

Both Christians and communists have this thing about fixating on the differences that they go blind to the extremely many similarities. European post Christian secularism, ie Humanism, is completely a product of Christianity. Both Communism and Humanism have the same philosophical ancestor, Christian Humanism.

Buddhism existed well before the concept of Jesus came about. Christianity is a fraud. It was both used to defend and attack the concept of slavery in the US in the 19th Century. Pretty fucking useless if it can manage that!

I think Christianity and Communism have so many similarities I think it's silly to separate them as different theologies. They're extremely similar.

In the sense of no, they aren't. Christianity is about peace in heaven after death, a made up myth. Communism is about peace on earth through universal cooperation, a doomed utopian construct.

 

[bilby]

Christianity is a fraud. It was both used to defend and attack the concept of slavery in the US in the 19th Century. Pretty fucking useless if it can manage that!

The Bible is a Forer Effect document. It's large enough and vague enough that you can read into it support for any personal traits or preconcieved notions you like.

If you pick up the Bible and leaf through it you will find that it supports you, personally, in all of your beliefs and desires, while lambasting all of your enemies for anything you feel to be wrong. And it does this regardless of what your beliefs and desires might be.

 

[DrZoidberg]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

Exactly.
By turning Marxist communism into a state religion with Stalin or whoever as the High Priest. Then proceeding to behave like any other religious elite.
"Believe and Obey! or die..."
Tom

The list of philosophers who equate communism with Christianity is pretty long. Communism wouldn't be possible without Christian thought preceeding it.

Communism and Socialism came about because of suffering. People thinking there had to be a better way. Socialism and Communism on their own wouldn't be a better way, but marrying socialism with capitalism would prove effective. It'd take Christianity 1700 or so years to get to Locke and Hobbes.

So did Christianity.

Christianity and Socialism have the same unique selling point, namely that even those furthest down on the social ladder are worthy of dignity. That... btw is something that people often forget when talking about other religions or society before Christianity. We're so marinated in Christian social values that we've forgotten how cool and special this is. Islam has the same thing. And Judaism. The fact that socialism zero in on so much on this point proves that it's a product of Christian thinking.

A problem communist movements have had to motivate their people to behave like good communists is that they remove the incentive for powerful people to care about those lowest on the social hierarchy. Which is, no doubt, why they've sucked so much at it.

The most interesting quirk of history is how the hell Christianity got married to capitalism. Since it's explicitly forbidden in the Bible. It violates so much of what used to be core of Christianity.

Both Christians and communists have this thing about fixating on the differences that they go blind to the extremely many similarities. European post Christian secularism, ie Humanism, is completely a product of Christianity. Both Communism and Humanism have the same philosophical ancestor, Christian Humanism.

Buddhism existed well before the concept of Jesus came about. Christianity is a fraud. It was both used to defend and attack the concept of slavery in the US in the 19th Century. Pretty fucking useless if it can manage that!

Your attack on slavery is a wee bit anachronistic. In the ancient world, pre empires, war was genocide. Being taken as a slave, was an act of mercy. So the ancient had no moral hang ups about it. From their perspective the slaves should be grateful for being alive at all. This is the world created Christianity. When Europe christianised slavery did die out. There's complex reasons for this. But Christianity certainly played a part.

African slavery in the new world is a different story. I won't go into detail about it. I'm sure you know the story. But Europeans saw them as savages so applied double standards. That's, incidentaly, still how racists think about those of other races. What changed was the number of racists. Not that the ideas died out.

Buddhism and Christianity are completely different philosophies and theologies. The problem with Western understanding of Buddhism is that that modern Buddhism was, lets say, invented in the 18th century. It was a slow evolution of course. But modern Buddhism is as influenced by industrialism and capitalism as modern Christianity is. And that's the only Buddhism that has ever made it to the west.

In Buddhism being humble isn't because God wants it. It's not rules to follow. Being humble is its own reward. It's supposed to make you a better person. Obedience isn't a Buddhist virtue. Don't confuse Buddhism humility with them viewing everyone as equals. That's not how Buddhists think. That's how western converts to Buddhism thinks. Because they're culturally Christian LARPing Buddhism.

I think Christianity and Communism have so many similarities I think it's silly to separate them as different theologies. They're extremely similar.

In the sense of no, they aren't. Christianity is about peace in heaven after death, a made up myth. Communism is about peace on earth through universal cooperation, a doomed utopian construct.

I'd argue those are so similar concepts I don't understand why you bother separating them. Those are the same thing. BTW, in the Bible Heaven is on Earth. it's not another place we go to. That's a later idea. It's not in the Bible

 

[DrZoidberg]

What a surprise, the flottila of attention whoring influencer narcisists were stopped, again. Some people really need to be protected from their own stupidity. So I guess its for the best.

Greta Thunberg among activists detained as Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla

Climate activist Greta Thunberg is among activists on the Global Sumud Flotilla being taken to an Israeli port.

www.bbc.com

I still find it weird that not more was made of that the gays were kicked off the Gaza flottila. Because it hurt the feelings of the Islamists organising the flottila. Why does the progressives in the west keep supporting these moraly reprehensible people? These deeply conservative reprehensible people who are against the progressive values their western supporters hold.

A friends daughter is on this btw. Both him and the mom are very pro-Israel. We've had a lot of discussions about this. They support their daughter and encourage her to do her own thing. But they're of course worried for her. So good news that the ship was stopped by a civilised country before making it to Gaza and his kid ends up as new hostages in the tunnels.

 

[DrZoidberg]

And if anyone is confused, the core of the boats of the Global Sumud Flotilla are owned by Hamas. This is not an indipendent organisation in support of the Palestine cause. This is Hamas. My hope that the reason western leftists have joined it is that they're too dumb to understand what they're supporting. It's still not an excuse. The best expression to describe these guys is "Gretards"

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Christianity is a fraud. It was both used to defend and attack the concept of slavery in the US in the 19th Century. Pretty fucking useless if it can manage that!

The Bible is a Forer Effect document. It's large enough and vague enough that you can read into it support for any personal traits or preconcieved notions you like.

Kevin Bacon proved that in Footloose.

If you pick up the Bible and leaf through it you will find that it supports you, personally, in all of your beliefs and desires, while lambasting all of your enemies for anything you feel to be wrong. And it does this regardless of what your beliefs and desires might be.

I don't know, I'm not as anti-pig as it is.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

Exactly.
By turning Marxist communism into a state religion with Stalin or whoever as the High Priest. Then proceeding to behave like any other religious elite.
"Believe and Obey! or die..."
Tom

The list of philosophers who equate communism with Christianity is pretty long. Communism wouldn't be possible without Christian thought preceeding it.

Communism and Socialism came about because of suffering. People thinking there had to be a better way. Socialism and Communism on their own wouldn't be a better way, but marrying socialism with capitalism would prove effective. It'd take Christianity 1700 or so years to get to Locke and Hobbes.

So did Christianity.

Christianity and Socialism have the same unique selling point, namely that even those furthest down on the social ladder are worthy of dignity. That... btw is something that people often forget when talking about other religions or society before Christianity. We're so marinated in Christian social values that we've forgotten how cool and special this is. Islam has the same thing. And Judaism. The fact that socialism zero in on so much on this point proves that it's a product of Christian thinking.

A problem communist movements have had to motivate their people to behave like good communists is that they remove the incentive for powerful people to care about those lowest on the social hierarchy. Which is, no doubt, why they've sucked so much at it.

The most interesting quirk of history is how the hell Christianity got married to capitalism. Since it's explicitly forbidden in the Bible. It violates so much of what used to be core of Christianity.

Both Christians and communists have this thing about fixating on the differences that they go blind to the extremely many similarities. European post Christian secularism, ie Humanism, is completely a product of Christianity. Both Communism and Humanism have the same philosophical ancestor, Christian Humanism.

Buddhism existed well before the concept of Jesus came about. Christianity is a fraud. It was both used to defend and attack the concept of slavery in the US in the 19th Century. Pretty fucking useless if it can manage that!

Your attack on slavery is a wee bit anachronistic. In the ancient world, pre empires, war was genocide. Being taken as a slave, was an act of mercy. So the ancient had no moral hang ups about it. From their perspective the slaves should be grateful for being alive at all. This is the world created Christianity. When Europe christianised slavery did die out. There's complex reasons for this. But Christianity certainly played a part.

Dude, no. Not at all. You grew up in a post-holocaust Europe. Christianity in your experience is not what it was prior to the extermination of ten million of so people. I live in the US. We have a much different world of Christianity than Europe (we didn't have the Holocaust in our backyard). The South has an ugly form of Christianity can Evangelism, which we learn in 2016 meant 19th century religious worldview. Oh, among themselves, they can be quite nice, but get someone different amongst them, whether they be Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, black, gay... they aren't quite as nice. These Christians and their Christian values had German shepherds attack black children in the 1960s. We aren't talking that long ago. A Catholic becoming President was scandal in the 1960s in the US!

That view of Christianity in the US is seeing a resurgence in popularity and power.

African slavery in the new world is a different story. I won't go into detail about it. I'm sure you know the story. But Europeans saw them as savages so applied double standards. That's, incidentaly, still how racists think about those of other races. What changed was the number of racists. Not that the ideas died out.

Yeah, that had nothing to do with what I said about how amphorous and useless the Bible and its relationship to morality is.

Buddhism and Christianity are completely different philosophies and theologies.

No kidding! One is a universal look at a human beings place amongst a civilization and the universe, the other a death cult.

In Buddhism being humble isn't because God wants it. It's not rules to follow. Being humble is its own reward. It's supposed to make you a better person. Obedience isn't a Buddhist virtue. Don't confuse Buddhism humility with them viewing everyone as equals. That's not how Buddhists think.

I don't care how Buddhists think or that Taoism devolved into alchemy. The foundational documents created a viable and universal understanding for humanity and philosophy without the use of judgment or hate.

I think Christianity and Communism have so many similarities I think it's silly to separate them as different theologies. They're extremely similar.

In the sense of no, they aren't. Christianity is about peace in heaven after death, a made up myth. Communism is about peace on earth through universal cooperation, a doomed utopian construct.

I'd argue those are so similar concepts I don't understand why you bother separating them.

Because one is imaginary and has nothing to do with our actions on Earth. The other is attempting to fulfill something on Earth.

BTW, in the Bible Heaven is on Earth.

Yeah, good luck getting a broad group of Christians to agree to that. And that is ignoring the tiny issue of the Christian Heaven isn't even a concept in most of the Bible.

 

[DrZoidberg]

There is just so much hatred in that part of the world that I would despair of anyone wanting to live in peace with each other.

That's religion for you.

That people for you.
Religious, non-religious - neither have the monopoly on hatred.

Sure. But to hate entire populations of folks you have never even met; That requires religion.

Not really.
Lenin/Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao et al. were very successful at getting parts of their population to hate those they had never met eg. Kulaks, educated etc. without needing to use religion.
An identifiable other is all that is required and then propaganda. Religion is a common way but by no means the only way.

Exactly.
By turning Marxist communism into a state religion with Stalin or whoever as the High Priest. Then proceeding to behave like any other religious elite.
"Believe and Obey! or die..."
Tom

The list of philosophers who equate communism with Christianity is pretty long. Communism wouldn't be possible without Christian thought preceeding it.

Communism and Socialism came about because of suffering. People thinking there had to be a better way. Socialism and Communism on their own wouldn't be a better way, but marrying socialism with capitalism would prove effective. It'd take Christianity 1700 or so years to get to Locke and Hobbes.

So did Christianity.

Christianity and Socialism have the same unique selling point, namely that even those furthest down on the social ladder are worthy of dignity. That... btw is something that people often forget when talking about other religions or society before Christianity. We're so marinated in Christian social values that we've forgotten how cool and special this is. Islam has the same thing. And Judaism. The fact that socialism zero in on so much on this point proves that it's a product of Christian thinking.

A problem communist movements have had to motivate their people to behave like good communists is that they remove the incentive for powerful people to care about those lowest on the social hierarchy. Which is, no doubt, why they've sucked so much at it.

The most interesting quirk of history is how the hell Christianity got married to capitalism. Since it's explicitly forbidden in the Bible. It violates so much of what used to be core of Christianity.

Both Christians and communists have this thing about fixating on the differences that they go blind to the extremely many similarities. European post Christian secularism, ie Humanism, is completely a product of Christianity. Both Communism and Humanism have the same philosophical ancestor, Christian Humanism.

Buddhism existed well before the concept of Jesus came about. Christianity is a fraud. It was both used to defend and attack the concept of slavery in the US in the 19th Century. Pretty fucking useless if it can manage that!

Your attack on slavery is a wee bit anachronistic. In the ancient world, pre empires, war was genocide. Being taken as a slave, was an act of mercy. So the ancient had no moral hang ups about it. From their perspective the slaves should be grateful for being alive at all. This is the world created Christianity. When Europe christianised slavery did die out. There's complex reasons for this. But Christianity certainly played a part.

Dude, no. Not at all. You grew up in a post-holocaust Europe. Christianity in your experience is not what it was prior to the extermination of ten million of so people. I live in the US. We have a much different world of Christianity than Europe (we didn't have the Holocaust in our backyard). The South has an ugly form of Christianity can Evangelism, which we learn in 2016 meant 19th century religious worldview. Oh, among themselves, they can be quite nice, but get someone different amongst them, whether they be Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, black, gay... they aren't quite as nice. These Christians and their Christian values had German shepherds attack black children in the 1960s. We aren't talking that long ago. A Catholic becoming President was scandal in the 1960s in the US!

That view of Christianity in the US is seeing a resurgence in popularity and power.

Is your argument that Christianity is not perfect therefore 100% bad?

It doesn’t have to be perfect to make a positive impact. It just needs to be better than nothing. Which I think it is.

I'm not a Christian. Because I don’t think the positives outweigh the negatives.

A huge problem with all Abrahamic faiths is that it breeds intolerance. Just like you point out.

The Pagan Romans were many things. But not intolerant or closed minded. It was an incredible intellectually curious culture. Which we lost when we became Christian. One example.

Liberalism and the Enlightenment is a reaction against the extreme form of Christianity Luther gave us. Christianity to eleven. It was such an extreme form of Christianity it broke Christianity. And that’s why we've got science and democracy today.

African slavery in the new world is a different story. I won't go into detail about it. I'm sure you know the story. But Europeans saw them as savages so applied double standards. That's, incidentaly, still how racists think about those of other races. What changed was the number of racists. Not that the ideas died out.

Yeah, that had nothing to do with what I said about how amphorous and useless the Bible and its relationship to morality is.

Do you seriously believe that?

Buddhism and Christianity are completely different philosophies and theologies.

No kidding! One is a universal look at a human beings place amongst a civilization and the universe, the other a death cult.

You need to travel more in Asia. Buddhism has plenty of problems. Like all religions.

For one thing they have nothing to say about genocide. Its all about what you personally shouldn't do and your attitude towards it. But it gives a free pass to your government to do whatever horrific things it wants.

Buddhist leaders have used Buddhist teachings to justify genocide many times in history.

People who are culturally Christian are intolerant and therefore make demands on their rulers. Its easy to see why democracy came from the west.

In Buddhism being humble isn't because God wants it. It's not rules to follow. Being humble is its own reward. It's supposed to make you a better person. Obedience isn't a Buddhist virtue. Don't confuse Buddhism humility with them viewing everyone as equals. That's not how Buddhists think.

I don't care how Buddhists think or that Taoism devolved into alchemy. The foundational documents created a viable and universal understanding for humanity and philosophy without the use of judgment or hate.

All major religions survive because they were handy tools for rulers to fight wars with. That’s universal for all religion. Religions that weren't are all gone now.

Buddhism is not different in this regard. Asia has had as violent wars as anywhere else.

You sound like a hippie

I think Christianity and Communism have so many similarities I think it's silly to separate them as different theologies. They're extremely similar.

In the sense of no, they aren't. Christianity is about peace in heaven after death, a made up myth. Communism is about peace on earth through universal cooperation, a doomed utopian construct.

I'd argue those are so similar concepts I don't understand why you bother separating them.

Because one is imaginary and has nothing to do with our actions on Earth. The other is attempting to fulfill something on Earth.

Both are about humbling yourself and putting up with a shitty life now, in order to have an awesome life later. The details of which are in both cases glossed over. Its fans don't seem bothered by this.

Both are utopian. Both are imaginary.

Both imagine lives in their paradises to be happy and egalitarian.

BTW, in the Bible Heaven is on Earth.

Yeah, good luck getting a broad group of Christians to agree to that. And that is ignoring the tiny issue of the Christian Heaven isn't even a concept in most of the Bible.

Both have an identity to be opposed to the other. Of course they're not going to agree to it. Even if its true.

Luckily for me truth and reality isn't down to a democratic vote ok the matter. Which is why I believe in neither communist utopia or Heaven

 

[Politesse]

Following renewed bombing of the area around the hospital and the deaths of several of their staff and patients, Doctors Without Borders has withdrawn from Gaza City altogether.

The relentless Israeli offensive in Gaza City, Palestine, has forced Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) to suspend vital medical activities in the area due to the rapidly deteriorating security situation. The situation includes continued airstrikes and advancing tanks less than one kilometre from our healthcare facilities. The escalating attacks from Israeli forces have created an unacceptable level of risk for our staff, forcing us to suspend lifesaving medical activities.

“We have been left with no choice but to stop our activities, as our clinics are encircled by Israeli forces,” says Jacob Granger, MSF Emergency Coordinator in Gaza. “This is the last thing we wanted, as the needs in Gaza City are enormous, with the most vulnerable people - infants in neo-natal care, those with severe injuries and life-threatening illnesses - unable to move and in grave danger.”

While large numbers of people have fled south due to evacuation orders, there are still hundreds of thousands of pople in Gaza City, who are unable to leave and have no other option but to stay. Those who are able to leave face an impossible choice: either remain in Gaza City under intense military operations and the deterioration of law and order, or abandon what’s left of their houses, their belongings, and their memories, to move to areas where humanitarian conditions are rapidly collapsing.

The latest victim of the onslaught was this guy, Omar Hayek, killed on his way out of the city to a satellite clinic. He was waiting at a bus stop. I sure it was a fucking terrorist bus stop. Murderers! This is the fourteenth killing of an MSF staff member since they began operations in Gaza. You'd be safer as a soldier than you are as a doctor when Israel is on the march, at least soldiers get body armor and are allowed to shoot back.

This morning, an attack carried out by Israeli forces in Gaza, Palestine, killed our Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) colleague, Omar Hayek, and seriously injured four others. The attack took place on a street where our teams were waiting to take a bus to the MSF field hospital in Deir Al-Balah. All staff were wearing MSF vests, clearly identifying them as medical humanitarian workers.

We express deep sorrow and outrage over the killing, which occurs less than two weeks after another MSF colleague, Hussein Alnajjar, was killed by the Israeli forces, in Deir Al-Balah.

Our thoughts are with Omar’s family and colleagues at this tragic time. Omar, 42 years old, is the fourteenth MSF colleague to be killed in Gaza since 7 October 2023.

Omar was a quiet man of profound kindness and utter professionalism. Since June 2018, he had worked as an occupational therapist at an MSF clinic in Gaza City, dedicating his life to restoring strength and dignity to thousands of patients. He remained in Gaza City before finally evacuating south on 13 September, due to relentless attacks and forced displacement from Israeli forces, who claimed people would find safety there. Instead, he was killed at a bus stop on his way to work.