Split Gendered spaces, split from Drag Shows

[TomC]

This shit is why I am glad not to be in the dating game. The game is rigged in favor of women.

Just be gay. That's what I did.

Tom

 

[Oleg]

This shit is why I am glad not to be in the dating game. The game is rigged in favor of women.

Sour grapes, dude. Just have your first date at a coffee house or park.

 

[TomC]

It recognizes that there are pre/non-surgical trans students in schools.

The statement "not all students who menstruate are female" is flat out false.

But worse, it’s just a waste of money to impose a political viewpoint. On the other hand, ya gotta know the boys are gonna take those menstrual products in their restroom and do a lot of funny shit with it.

Heh...
Hank is a guy I used to know.

Sometimes, at parties or bars, he did something outrageous.
He'd disappear in the direction of the bathrooms. He'd pull a tampon out of his pocket and drench it in ketchup. Then he'd walk back into the crowd. He'd say "Hey! Look what I found!" Then he'd stick it in his mouth and slurp off the ketchup.

Much hilarity ensued.
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

It's a cost barrier that men don't face, and as a result, men are largely unaware that it even exists.

And women don't shave their faces. We all have our cross to bear. If government is to pay for period products, why can't I get my shaving blades for free? Those are quite pricey too.

A lot of men don't shave their faces either, Derec. Shaving you face is optional, but menstruation, not so much. I'm well past menopause but it wouldn't bother me if menstrual supplies were covered by insurance or public health etc. I don't carry a grudge towards those who get things that I don't.

Anyway.....this thread has gone in some crazy directions.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

My grandmother used to shave her face.

 

[TomC]

Anyway.....this thread has gone in some crazy directions.

Boy o boy...

You'd think with all the threads about trans we wouldn't need to repurpose this one about drag.
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

My grandmother used to shave her face.

To be honest, most of us older women often touch up those little hairs that appear on our chins etc. I even bought my sister a little shaver to be used for exactly that a few years ago. What I usually say is that when women get old, the hair on our legs and under our arms disappears but some of it ends up on our faces. Who woulda thunk it?

 

[Emily Lake]

It's a cost barrier that men don't face, and as a result, men are largely unaware that it even exists.

And women don't shave their faces. We all have our cross to bear. If government is to pay for period products, why can't I get my shaving blades for free? Those are quite pricey too.

To be fair... you can stop shaving and it's not a big deal. You can grow a beard and nobody is really going to bat an eye.

If women were to stop using period products, and just bleed all over the place, it would be a different response.

 

[Oleg]

If women were to stop using period products, and just bleed all over the place, it would be a different response.

Um, not all women have period bleeds, Emily. That's transphobic.

 

[Emily Lake]

If women were to stop using period products, and just bleed all over the place, it would be a different response.

Um, not all women have period bleeds, Emily. That's transphobic.

I swear to the fucking cosmic jewish zombie that if I have to start referring to members of my sex as "female humans" in order to prevent faux confusion, I might very well burst a blood vessel.

 

[Toni]

If women were to stop using period products, and just bleed all over the place, it would be a different response.

Um, not all women have period bleeds, Emily. That's transphobic.

Plenty of women don’t have monthly periods. Emily’s point still stands.

 

[Politesse]

Ah, a classic conservative "solution". Make it nearly impossible for people to pursue gender confirmation surgeries unless they're wealthy enough to cover it on their own, flexible enough to move to a state with a clinic, and have years to burn. But also gatekeep trans people who haven't been carved on, witholding rights until they can't be clocked any more. And NBs or people whose health situation doesn't allow surgery can just fuck right off.

Because a certain kind of person only feels "safe" when scary strangers are suffering somehow.

 

[Bomb#20]

... if I have to start referring to members of my sex as "female humans" in order to prevent faux confusion, I might very well burst a blood vessel.

Don't worry, you won't need to do it for very long. As soon as "female humans" catches on the progressive loyalty oath will become "Transfemales are females."

 

[Toni]

Ah, a classic conservative "solution". Make it nearly impossible for people to pursue gender confirmation surgeries unless they're wealthy enough to cover it on their own, flexible enough to move to a state with a clinic, and have years to burn. But also gatekeep trans people who haven't been carved on, witholding rights until they can't be clocked any more. And NBs or people whose health situation doesn't allow surgery can just fuck right off.

Because a certain kind of person only feels "safe" when scary strangers are suffering somehow.

Oh bullshit. You cannot walk into a room full of women and swing a dead cat and not hit more than one who has been sexually assaulted. Usually by someone she knew and thought she could trust. Too often a family member, family friend, teacher, preacher or coach. At least one before she hit puberty.

For most women and girls —even those who have been raped by men—it is not about being scared of penises or being scared or trans people. Or being scared of men! It’s about unexpectedly encountering a naked stranger with a penis standing them next to them while the woman or girl is taking a shower in the women’s locker room.

It’s about deserving to feel safe. Which you should understand because you don’t think that trans women would feel safe or comfortable in a locker room with a bunch of men.

And nobody has offered a single way that women are supposed to know in that moment, naked in the women’s locket room, the difference between a naked non-surgical trans woman and some man who intends them harm.

Which is why I think the ONLY rational solution is individual stalls with doors in all locker rooms.

Tell the truth: what would you think if your 12 year old ( cis female) niece told you that there was some naked full grown stranger with a penis standing in the shower next to her. Would you tell her that wasn’t a problem and she should just accept naked strangers with penises next to while she showers and changes clothes? Because I can tell you there’s a good chance she’s already had a little experience with people with penises intending her harm. Much better a chance than makes either of us happy.

This has nothing to do with wishing harm, including embarrassment or rejection of trans women whatever their genital configuration.

It’s about how women and girls are supposed to instantaneously know that the naked person with a penis in the shower next to them is a woman.

Naked strangers with penises are generally considered to be potentially very dangerous to women and girls. Which, to be honest, is one very good reason that trans women prefer women’s locker rooms.

So please come up with a plan that does not involve women ignoring all concerns for privacy, modesty and personal safety and share it. I’d genuinely like to know.

 

[Politesse]

Ah, a classic conservative "solution". Make it nearly impossible for people to pursue gender confirmation surgeries unless they're wealthy enough to cover it on their own, flexible enough to move to a state with a clinic, and have years to burn. But also gatekeep trans people who haven't been carved on, witholding rights until they can't be clocked any more. And NBs or people whose health situation doesn't allow surgery can just fuck right off.

Because a certain kind of person only feels "safe" when scary strangers are suffering somehow.

Oh bullshit. You cannot walk into a room full of women and swing a dead cat and not hit more than one who has been sexually assaulted. Usually by someone she knew and thought she could trust. Too often a family member, family friend, teacher, preacher or coach. At least one before she hit puberty.

For most women and girls —even those who have been raped by men—it is not about being scared of penises or being scared or trans people. Or being scared of men! It’s about unexpectedly encountering a naked stranger with a penis standing them next to them while the woman or girl is taking a shower in the women’s locker room.

It’s about deserving to feel safe. Which you should understand because you don’t think that trans women would feel safe or comfortable in a locker room with a bunch of men.

And nobody has offered a single way that women are supposed to know in that moment, naked in the women’s locket room, the difference between a naked non-surgical trans woman and some man who intends them harm.

Which is why I think the ONLY rational solution is individual stalls with doors in all locker rooms.

Tell the truth: what would you think if your 12 year old ( cis female) niece told you that there was some naked full grown stranger with a penis standing in the shower next to her. Would you tell her that wasn’t a problem and she should just accept naked strangers with penises next to while she showers and changes clothes? Because I can tell you there’s a good chance she’s already had a little experience with people with penises intending her harm. Much better a chance than makes either of us happy.

This has nothing to do with wishing harm, including embarrassment or rejection of trans women whatever their genital configuration.

It’s about how women and girls are supposed to instantaneously know that the naked person with a penis in the shower next to them is a woman.

Naked strangers with penises are generally considered to be potentially very dangerous to women and girls. Which, to be honest, is one very good reason that trans women prefer women’s locker rooms.

So please come up with a plan that does not involve women ignoring all concerns for privacy, modesty and personal safety and share it. I’d genuinely like to know.

There's no reason businesses could not implement this solution right now, and indeed many do in the more civilized parts of the country. But grotesque fearmongering, transphobia, pseudoscientific misinformation about intersex people, and just general cruelty are not needed in order to implement this solution. You can just build these facilities, with no need for any sort of hate speech whatsoever.

 

[Toni]

Ah, a classic conservative "solution". Make it nearly impossible for people to pursue gender confirmation surgeries unless they're wealthy enough to cover it on their own, flexible enough to move to a state with a clinic, and have years to burn. But also gatekeep trans people who haven't been carved on, witholding rights until they can't be clocked any more. And NBs or people whose health situation doesn't allow surgery can just fuck right off.

Because a certain kind of person only feels "safe" when scary strangers are suffering somehow.

Oh bullshit. You cannot walk into a room full of women and swing a dead cat and not hit more than one who has been sexually assaulted. Usually by someone she knew and thought she could trust. Too often a family member, family friend, teacher, preacher or coach. At least one before she hit puberty.

For most women and girls —even those who have been raped by men—it is not about being scared of penises or being scared or trans people. Or being scared of men! It’s about unexpectedly encountering a naked stranger with a penis standing them next to them while the woman or girl is taking a shower in the women’s locker room.

It’s about deserving to feel safe. Which you should understand because you don’t think that trans women would feel safe or comfortable in a locker room with a bunch of men.

And nobody has offered a single way that women are supposed to know in that moment, naked in the women’s locket room, the difference between a naked non-surgical trans woman and some man who intends them harm.

Which is why I think the ONLY rational solution is individual stalls with doors in all locker rooms.

Tell the truth: what would you think if your 12 year old ( cis female) niece told you that there was some naked full grown stranger with a penis standing in the shower next to her. Would you tell her that wasn’t a problem and she should just accept naked strangers with penises next to while she showers and changes clothes? Because I can tell you there’s a good chance she’s already had a little experience with people with penises intending her harm. Much better a chance than makes either of us happy.

This has nothing to do with wishing harm, including embarrassment or rejection of trans women whatever their genital configuration.

It’s about how women and girls are supposed to instantaneously know that the naked person with a penis in the shower next to them is a woman.

Naked strangers with penises are generally considered to be potentially very dangerous to women and girls. Which, to be honest, is one very good reason that trans women prefer women’s locker rooms.

So please come up with a plan that does not involve women ignoring all concerns for privacy, modesty and personal safety and share it. I’d genuinely like to know.

There's no reason businesses could not implement this solution right now, and indeed many do in the more civilized parts of the country. But grotesque fearmongering, transphobia, pseudoscientific misinformation about intersex people, and just general cruelty are not needed in order to implement this solution. You can just build these facilities, with no need for any sort of hate speech whatsoever.

I assume you mean locker rooms with stalls with doors? Lots of places really don't have money that they can or are willing to direct towards making women's spaces safer. Or do you not get the news where you live? Lots of men who have no idea how pregnancy or childbirth works and who could not find a clitoris with a road map and directions and a Youtube ---assuming that they believe clitorises exist and are not a mark or plot of Satan, are making legislation that will cost, has cost women their lives.

I wasn't aware that there was any hate speech going on in this thread.

I'm sure you and I have both experienced plenty of hate speech, sometimes enacted into far reaching laws, directed towards us.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It’s about deserving to feel safe. Which you should understand because you don’t think that trans women would feel safe or comfortable in a locker room with a bunch of men.

And nobody has offered a single way that women are supposed to know in that moment, naked in the women’s locket room, the difference between a naked non-surgical trans woman and some man who intends them harm.

Keyword that you're still missing: "Feel".

It's an illusion of safety, there is no actual protection provided.

 

[Toni]

It’s about deserving to feel safe. Which you should understand because you don’t think that trans women would feel safe or comfortable in a locker room with a bunch of men.

And nobody has offered a single way that women are supposed to know in that moment, naked in the women’s locket room, the difference between a naked non-surgical trans woman and some man who intends them harm.

Keyword that you're still missing: "Feel".

It's an illusion of safety, there is no actual protection provided.

Loren, there is nothing wrong with feelings. Everyone has them. You don’t need to feel afraid of feelings—yours or the feelings of women you don’t know.

Never being able to feel safe is an extreme burden that few straight white men have to deal with.

Feelings safe is never ever confused with actual safety.

You know one of the first signs of danger in a woman’s locker room ( aside from smoke and flames)? A naked stranger with a penis.

In fact, naked strangers with penises are so scary that trans women who have penises, some gay men and some gender non-conforming people not only feel unsafe but actually ARE unsafe.

You know who else can not only feel but actually BE unsafe in the presence of naked strangers with penises?

Women. Not just trans women but also cis women.

Lots of opportunities for women to be unsafe and a whole lot of them—but not ALL of them, of course, involve naked people with penises. Trust me, we all know that a man doesn’t have to be naked to be dangerous to us.

 

[Politesse]

Loren, there is nothing wrong with feelings. Everyone has them. You don’t need to feel afraid of feelings—yours or the feelings of women you don’t know.

Is that a sick joke? Trans people have every reason in the world to be afraid of women's feelings. And men's feelings. Just feelings in general. Women's feelings can get people arrested, hurt, killed. Their jobs lost, their children stolen by the state. What the hell do you think hatred is, a fact? Of course it's a feeling.

 

[Toni]

Loren, there is nothing wrong with feelings. Everyone has them. You don’t need to feel afraid of feelings—yours or the feelings of women you don’t know.

Is that a sick joke? Trans people have every reason in the world to be afraid of women's feelings. And men's feelings. Just feelings in general. Women's feelings can get people arrested, hurt, killed. Their jobs lost, their children stolen by the state. What the hell do you think hatred is, a fact? Of course it's a feeling.

AFAIK Loren is not a woman, trans or otherwise.