Georgia's new guidelines for hair salons

[Loren Pechtel]

In California more than 40% of the “Covid deaths” reported have occurred in care homes. Meanwhile, Newsom has the police tape off horse trails and bans people sitting on the beach and Mayor Garcetti fills skate parks with sand, prevents mobile dog groomers from making a living, scolds golfers out on the links and wants people to rat out their neighbors for leaving the house or having people over.

So, 40%+ of deaths in care homes but folks lose their shit when someone wants a haircut ?

This lockdown is now irrational and in no way based on science.

So, people in care facilities' lives don't matter?

That's not what I am saying. I am saying protect the vulnerable. Lockdown the care homes, they are death traps. Tackle problem that actually exists instead of hassling people at the beach or scolding people that want a haircut.

The problem here is you are looking at the world as a bunch of things in isolation.

Those care homes don't just have patients, they have workers that come and go and have lives of their own. You go out on the beach and get infected. You go grocery shopping without a mask on and you infect that worker. That worker goes to work and a bunch of people die.

 

[SimpleDon]

I have been watching the BBC while I was writing the above.

It has reminded me that we can never consider ourselves to be safe until the disease is under some kind of control around the world. This is yet another fact that I am sure that Trump is not going to embrace. He puts a great deal of faith in the US's ability to wall ourselves off from the world's problems. That his attempts to do so far haven't been very effective hasn't dimmed his enthusiasm for building walls and closing borders.

But the problems from the worldwide pandemic pale in comparison to the economic problems caused by the cure for the virus, the shutdown of the worldwide economy. The US's governing conservative/libertarian economics of free markets and free trade, the dependence on profit as the sole determinate for the economy, their rejection of government, their rejection of science, and their dependence on satisfying the greed of the 1% at the costs of the 99% is poorly equipped it as a guide to recover from the COVID-19 depression. I am not sure that Biden has the needed economics to do it either, he was a charter member of the neoliberal Washington Consensus, but I am sure that he would be much, much better than Trump.

It also reminded me of how much the rest of the world has stopped looking to the US for leadership in the age of Trump.

The Tory government in the UK has dismissed talk of reopening the economy.

The WHO is warning that there is no reason to believe that survivors of the disease have immunity to re-infection. Some antibody tests are fooled by antibodies for other corona viruses.

The insurance companies in the UK have refused to pay claims for business interruption coverage, even those that specifically mention coverage for "contagion." The insurance companies say that they could never insure in a pandemic like we have now.

The UK has just gone over 20,000 deaths from the virus.

 

[Toni]

Yeah, some of those pre-existing conditions including being an infant or young child. They die, as well.

It is very, very rare that an infant or young child dies from covid. And when it does happen, that is a tragedy. But when an 80+ year old dies from a preexisting condition and complications possibly brought on by a virus, well that's a natural part of life I'm afraid.

What is the lockdown policy supposed to achieve here ? Immortality ? No, the policy is in place to prevent the health services from being overwhelmed, job done. Time to start easing up the lockdown where it makes sense.

No, sweetie: the 80 year old dies of corono virus because other conditions (being old) make it harder for them to recover from the infection. The virus is the primary cause of death.

FWIW, old people are not the only ones who might be overweight, suffer from high blood pressure, heart disease, have compromised immune systems. That's a lot of people at all ages. Almost any infection is always harder for those with diabetes, and other chronic health conditions. But covid 19 kills them much more surely than those without the conditions. Unless it doesn't. This is also true of influenza. Unfortunately for your argument, COVID19 seems much more infectious and much deadlier than influenza.

 

[J842P]

I have been watching the BBC while I was writing the above.

It has reminded me that we can never consider ourselves to be safe until the disease is under some kind of control around the world. This is yet another fact that I am sure that Trump is not going to embrace. He puts a great deal of faith in the US's ability to wall ourselves off from the world's problems. That his attempts to do so far haven't been very effective hasn't dimmed his enthusiasm for building walls and closing borders.

But the problems from the worldwide pandemic pale in comparison to the economic problems caused by the cure for the virus, the shutdown of the worldwide economy. The US's governing conservative/libertarian economics of free markets and free trade, the dependence on profit as the sole determinate for the economy, their rejection of government, their rejection of science, and their dependence on satisfying the greed of the 1% at the costs of the 99% is poorly equipped it as a guide to recover from the COVID-19 depression. I am not sure that Biden has the needed economics to do it either, he was a charter member of the neoliberal Washington Consensus, but I am sure that he would be much, much better than Trump.

It also reminded me of how much the rest of the world has stopped looking to the US for leadership in the age of Trump.

The Tory government in the UK has dismissed talk of reopening the economy.

The WHO is warning that there is no reason to believe that survivors of the disease have immunity to re-infection. Some antibody tests are fooled by antibodies for other corona viruses.

The insurance companies in the UK have refused to pay claims for business interruption coverage, even those that specifically mention coverage for "contagion." The insurance companies say that they could never insure in a pandemic like we have now.

The UK has just gone over 20,000 deaths from the virus.

Yes, I'm fairly certain Biden will not handle the coming recession adequately, apparently, his cabinet picks include people like Jaime Dimon and he is currently being advised by Larry Summers, who is essentially the architect of the situation we are in today...

 

[TSwizzle]

[No, sweetie: the 80 year old dies of corono virus because other conditions (being old) make it harder for them to recover from the infection. The virus is the primary cause of death.

In a few cases maybe. But the not the majority.

FWIW, old people are not the only ones who might be overweight, suffer from high blood pressure, heart disease, have compromised immune systems. That's a lot of people at all ages. Almost any infection is always harder for those with diabetes, and other chronic health conditions. But covid 19 kills them much more surely than those without the conditions. Unless it doesn't. This is also true of influenza. Unfortunately for your argument, COVID19 seems much more infectious and much deadlier than influenza.

That remains to be seen. In the meantime these people need to be extra careful and stay home.

 

[Elixir]

I'm fairly certain Biden will not handle the coming recession adequately, apparently, his cabinet picks include people like Jaime Dimon and he is currently being advised by Larry Summers, who is essentially the architect of the situation we are in today...

Huhwut?
Reads like you think that it's more effective to loot the US Treasury for 4-6$trillion and give the money to Trump's donors and the Companies they control (leaving a few zillion left over to support poor Wumpy's personal interests, pay off his Russian oligarch debtors, the Chinese government et al).

But I'm sure you can't possibly mean that...

 

[J842P]

I'm fairly certain Biden will not handle the coming recession adequately, apparently, his cabinet picks include people like Jaime Dimon and he is currently being advised by Larry Summers, who is essentially the architect of the situation we are in today...

Huhwut?
Reads like you think that it's more effective to loot the US Treasury for 4-6$trillion and give the money to Trump's donors and the Companies they control (leaving a few zillion left over to support poor Wumpy's personal interests, pay off his Russian oligarch debtors, the Chinese government et al).

But I'm sure you can't possibly mean that...

Well, nothing I said implied that, but I actually would prefer incompetent thieves to competent people (who are also thieves) with the failed, destructive ideology that those two men hold which would set us back decades.

Larry Summers is one of the biggest reasons we have Trump.

 

[Elixir]

... protect the vulnerable. Lockdown the care homes, they are death traps.

The problem here is you are looking at the world as a bunch of things in isolation.

I see a bigger problem - saying you can protect the vulnerable by locking them down in a deathtrap.

 

[SimpleDon]

You should stay home until a vaccine is found.

Tens of thousands of people die from flu or flu related illness EVERY year in the USA. How worried about that were you before this year ?

Flu generally only kills those in pretty poor shape anyway. This kills people with fairly minor health issues.

And has killed young, fit people with no known health issues. And people who get it often are left with respiratory problems for possibly the rest of their lives.

TSwizzle's conclusion that COVID-19 virus caused disease is no more deadly than the seasonal flu is largely based on his assertion that most of the reported deaths are fake news. That nearly every public health agency in the world is lying about the deaths from the virus. He offers no evidence of this or even a guess of what reason that it has to be said again, nearly every public health service in the world would lie about this.

And there are indications that the virus is responsible for some unknown number of deaths from strokes. The virus increases the number of blood clots. This is just observation of the front line health providers, among others, a neurosurgeon was removing blood clots from the brain of a person who had the COVID-19 disease only to see new ones form on the imaging screen before his eyes. This does underscore that there is much more about this disease that is unknown than is known.

I would hope that this is just another disease no more serious than a kind of flu, but we still don't know enough about the disease to be sure of anything. Saying that it is nothing more serious than the seasonal flu with certainty is irresponsible at this point and I suspect is nothing more than wishful thinking on TSwizzle's part. This has exposed serious flaws in the movement conservative theory of government. It like climate change require a competent government which they can't provide.

 

[southernhybrid]

I have been watching the BBC while I was writing the above.

It has reminded me that we can never consider ourselves to be safe until the disease is under some kind of control around the world. This is yet another fact that I am sure that Trump is not going to embrace. He puts a great deal of faith in the US's ability to wall ourselves off from the world's problems. That his attempts to do so far haven't been very effective hasn't dimmed his enthusiasm for building walls and closing borders.

But the problems from the worldwide pandemic pale in comparison to the economic problems caused by the cure for the virus, the shutdown of the worldwide economy. The US's governing conservative/libertarian economics of free markets and free trade, the dependence on profit as the sole determinate for the economy, their rejection of government, their rejection of science, and their dependence on satisfying the greed of the 1% at the costs of the 99% is poorly equipped it as a guide to recover from the COVID-19 depression. I am not sure that Biden has the needed economics to do it either, he was a charter member of the neoliberal Washington Consensus, but I am sure that he would be much, much better than Trump.

It also reminded me of how much the rest of the world has stopped looking to the US for leadership in the age of Trump.

The Tory government in the UK has dismissed talk of reopening the economy.

The WHO is warning that there is no reason to believe that survivors of the disease have immunity to re-infection. Some antibody tests are fooled by antibodies for other corona viruses.

The insurance companies in the UK have refused to pay claims for business interruption coverage, even those that specifically mention coverage for "contagion." The insurance companies say that they could never insure in a pandemic like we have now.

The UK has just gone over 20,000 deaths from the virus.

Yes, I'm fairly certain Biden will not handle the coming recession adequately, apparently, his cabinet picks include people like Jaime Dimon and he is currently being advised by Larry Summers, who is essentially the architect of the situation we are in today...

While it's not related to the thread, why are some people still believing the bullshit from Axios about Biden and Diamond? There have also been rumors that he will choose Elizabeth Warren for the position. Considering how different these two people are, this all sounds like rumors and nonsense that were started prior to Biden becoming the presumed Democratic nominee.. But, as I said, this has nothing to do with why I started this thread.

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/03/09/biden-campaign-blasts-jamie-dimon-to-treasury-rumor-as-laughable.html

Joe Biden’s spokesman Andrew Bates called the Axios column speculating on Biden cabinet picks, including that the former Vice President was considering Jamie Dimon for Treasury, “laughable speculation,” likening it to fantasy football.

Now back on topic. Most of the restaurants in Georgia, especially in Atlanta metro aren't planning on opening this week, and movie theaters aren't planning on opening any time soon either, so maybe a lot of business owners have more common sense than our governor, who is planning a big public prayer meeting today. God help us.....atheist translation.....We are so screwed.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Now back on topic. Most of the restaurants in Georgia, especially in Atlanta metro aren't planning on opening this week, and movie theaters aren't planning on opening any time soon either, so maybe a lot of business owners have more common sense than our governor, who is planning a big public prayer meeting today. God help us.....atheist translation.....We are so screwed.

I thought in Georgia in was Bless His Tiny Heart?

 

[atrib]

Two months in and TSwizzle still doesn't understand the threat of this disease.

Jebus! I didn't get a flu shot because I feared the flu would kill me. I got it (started getting it) when my daughter was born and continue to get it to prevent spread to my parents turned parent... among others.

It's not clear whether it's a severe mental disability preventing the understanding of such a simple concept, or a clinical level of sociopathic lack of empathy that prevents those with his mindset from remembering to include other's well being into how normal humans make decisions.

I think its a combination of both. Much like many religious people refuse to consider what science tells us about our origins (evolution), some people refuse to believe facts presented by experts in matters related to the pandemic. Combine that with the belief that only their lives matter, and that they have no moral or ethical obligation to consider the life-and-death impact of their decisions on other people in society, and you end up with people who are actively advocating the spread of the virus and deaths of hundreds of thousands or millions of people.

 

[atrib]

If life frightens you so much, stay home.

Life doesn't frighten me. I have had my share of serious accidents and medical issues, and I can deal with those just fine. But I have loved ones who are older and/or vulnerable to the disease, and I don't want them to get sick or die an untimely death. Which is why I stay home. I am not frightened of life, but I am frightened that there are enough stupid humans on this planet to fuck it up for everyone else. Take your advice somewhere else.

 

[atrib]

"Tens of thousands of people died of Covid-19" ? That's nonsense.

Oh that's right. I forgot you are just wasting our time.

Just like tens of thousands die of "the flu" every year.

The number of people that "died of covid 19" is not being reported correctly.

Someone hit by a car, tested positive for covid ? Add that to the covid deaths. Yes a bit of hyperbole on my part in that example but the true number of deaths from covid are nowhere near what the MSM are reporting. The vast majority of deaths are in the very elderly and those people with at least, AT LEAST one underlying health condition. And I know you are already aware of that but you persist with nonsense so it is you who is just wasting your own time so don't complain to me about it.

The experts agree that covid-19 has killed tens of thousands of people in the US and hundreds of thousands worldwide. Where is the evidence that this is false?

 

[TV and credit cards]

If life frightens you so much, stay home.

Life doesn't frighten me. I have had my share of serious accidents and medical issues, and I can deal with those just fine. But I have loved ones who are older and/or vulnerable to the disease, and I don't want them to get sick or die an untimely death. Which is why I stay home. I am not frightened of life, but I am frightened that there are enough stupid humans on this planet to fuck it up for everyone else. Take your advice somewhere else.

My bold.

Well, denying climate change just wasn't fucking shit up fast enough.

 

[Angry Floof]

The number of people that "died of covid 19" is not being reported correctly.

Someone hit by a car, tested positive for covid ? Add that to the covid deaths. Yes a bit of hyperbole on my part in that example but the true number of deaths from covid are nowhere near what the MSM are reporting. The vast majority of deaths are in the very elderly and those people with at least, AT LEAST one underlying health condition. And I know you are already aware of that but you persist with nonsense so it is you who is just wasting your own time so don't complain to me about it.

The experts agree that covid-19 has killed tens of thousands of people in the US and hundreds of thousands worldwide. Where is the evidence that this is false?

There is a conspiracy tidbit going around that some hospitals are reporting any death as COVID.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/social-media-posts-make-baseless-claim-on-covid-19-death-toll/

If you google keywords covid death reporting snopes factcheck, you'll find all manner of stories about malicious COVID death reporting.

 

[TSwizzle]

But I have loved ones who are older and/or vulnerable to the disease, and I don't want them to get sick or die an untimely death. Which is why I stay home.

I have no problem with that. It's your choice. Just don't expect most people to go along with that, which they aren't anyway but I certainly don't appreciate the finger wagging, shaming and scolding from the likes of you.

The experts agree that covid-19 has killed tens of thousands of people in the US and hundreds of thousands worldwide. Where is the evidence that this is false?

Yes it has, I have never said it hasn't and it is tedious having to say it again. Seasonal influenza also kills tens of thousands of people every year in the USA, it is staggering the number of people that die due to flu type viruses. We have also had pandemics before that killed tens of thousands of people. However, I am very skeptical of how deaths are being recorded during this current pandemic. Too many deaths are being attributed as death by covid 19 when it really isn't. And again, the vast, VAST majority of people that contract the virus barely even notice they have it. We've had a particularly bad time of it but the lockdown has achieved its goal and it is time to start easing back to normal.

 

[J842P]

However, I am very skeptical of how deaths are being recorded during this current pandemic. Too many deaths are being attributed as death by covid 19 when it really isn't.

Bullshit. This is a claim you keep repeating that you've invented whole cloth. That isn't what's occurring. The death numbers are almost certainly significantly accurate, and are as likely under-counting as over-counting.

 

[TSwizzle]

However, I am very skeptical of how deaths are being recorded during this current pandemic. Too many deaths are being attributed as death by covid 19 when it really isn't.

Bullshit. This is a claim you keep repeating that you've invented whole cloth. That isn't what's occurring. The death numbers are almost certainly significantly accurate, and are as likely under-counting as over-counting.

I highly doubt it. Different countries have different guidelines and policies when recording deaths. Initially, a death where the deceased is suspected of having covid19 is recorded as a "death by covid19". That's not accurate.

 

[J842P]

However, I am very skeptical of how deaths are being recorded during this current pandemic. Too many deaths are being attributed as death by covid 19 when it really isn't.

Bullshit. This is a claim you keep repeating that you've invented whole cloth. That isn't what's occurring. The death numbers are almost certainly significantly accurate, and are as likely under-counting as over-counting.

I highly doubt it. Different countries have different guidelines and policies when recording deaths. Initially, a death where the deceased is suspected of having covid19 is recorded as a "death by covid19". That's not accurate.

The figures coming from the developed nations are accurate. If a doctor suspects the patient died of COVID 19, then it is very likely an accurate assessment. Indirect measures, such as excess death, corroborate and align with those figures. Please stop pretending like you have any idea what you are talking about, because you clearly do not.