Growing Up with a Black Cop

[Worldtraveller]

the primary driver of crime is poverty

No. Crime causes poverty. It makes stores close or put up iron bars. Business investment tanks. People avoid public areas. Those who can leave, leave. Home values fall. The more public policy permits crime to fester, the more crime you get. Crime dropped during the Depression and Great Recession

Stop intentionally fooling yourself. Crime feeds off poverty. There's a reason neither the crack nor opioid epidemic effects wealthy neighborhoods as much as it does those in poverty. Just say what you really want to say out loud and cut the crap. Black people are crime and everywhere we go we bring crime with us and in turn bring poverty. Stop being a pussy and just say it.

I want to give this post a fucking standing ovation.

 

[Oleg]

the primary driver of crime is poverty

No. Crime causes poverty. It makes stores close or put up iron bars. Business investment tanks. People avoid public areas. Those who can leave, leave. Home values fall. The more public policy permits crime to fester, the more crime you get. Crime dropped during the Depression and Great Recession

Stop intentionally fooling yourself. Crime feeds off poverty. There's a reason neither the crack nor opioid epidemic effects wealthy neighborhoods as much as it does those in poverty. Just say what you really want to say out loud and cut the crap. Black people are crime and everywhere we go we bring crime with us and in turn bring poverty. Stop being a pussy and just say it.

Dude, when a family looks for a house to buy, do you think they just might factor in the level of crime in the neighborhood? When an business looks around for where to open a new store, do you think it just might factor in the level of crime in the neighborhood? If a family, especially with children, experiences crime in their neighbor, would it suprise you if they wanted to move somewhere else? The same for a business subjected to frequent shoplifting or assaults on employees? People value public order. That's what separates the good neighborhoods from the bad. A permissive attitude towards crime reduces public order, and trust. Quality of life drops. Those who have the means get out. Only the poor remain to be victimized. It's just sort of bizarre that those who advocate crime permissiveness are shocked - shocked - when the consequencies of those policies affect them.

 

[Gospel]

the primary driver of crime is poverty

No. Crime causes poverty. It makes stores close or put up iron bars. Business investment tanks. People avoid public areas. Those who can leave, leave. Home values fall. The more public policy permits crime to fester, the more crime you get. Crime dropped during the Depression and Great Recession

Stop intentionally fooling yourself. Crime feeds off poverty. There's a reason neither the crack nor opioid epidemic effects wealthy neighborhoods as much as it does those in poverty. Just say what you really want to say out loud and cut the crap. Black people are crime and everywhere we go we bring crime with us and in turn bring poverty. Stop being a pussy and just say it.

Dude, when a family looks for a house to buy, do you think they just might factor in the level of crime in the neighborhood? When an business looks around for where to open a new store, do you think it just might factor in the level of crime in the neighborhood? If a family, especially with children, experiences crime in their neighbor, would it suprise you if they wanted to move somewhere else? The same for a business subjected to frequent shoplifting or assaults on employees? People value public order. That's what separates the good neighborhoods from the bad. A permissive attitude towards crime reduces public order, and trust. Quality of life drops. Those who have the means get out. Only the poor remain to be victimized. It's just sort of bizarre that those who advocate crime permissiveness are shocked - shocked - when the consequencies of those policies affect them.

You're not looking at the first domino that fell you're looking at one of the dominos. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Gospel]

Barney style. Thief's usually steal something they don't have (in many cases these days to resell it for money - they don't have). When a thief steals it hurts business. The business moves. The community moves. That's how it works.

 

[Oleg]

Barney style. Thief's usually steal something they don't have (in many cases these days to resell it for money - they don't have). When a thief steals it hurts business. The business moves. The community moves. That's how it works.

Well, yeah. One of the explanations for neighborhood poverty is lack of investment. But who would invest - take a business risk - in an area of frequent crime? Those unfortunate to remain are left with fewer job opportunities and reduced access to goods and services.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

the primary driver of crime is poverty

No. Crime causes poverty. It makes stores close or put up iron bars. Business investment tanks. People avoid public areas. Those who can leave, leave. Home values fall. The more public policy permits crime to fester, the more crime you get. Crime dropped during the Depression and Great Recession

Stop intentionally fooling yourself. Crime feeds off poverty. There's a reason neither the crack nor opioid epidemic effects wealthy neighborhoods as much as it does those in poverty. Just say what you really want to say out loud and cut the crap. Black people are crime and everywhere we go we bring crime with us and in turn bring poverty. Stop being a pussy and just say it.

Dude, when a family looks for a house to buy, do you think they just might factor in the level of crime in the neighborhood? When an business looks around for where to open a new store, do you think it just might factor in the level of crime in the neighborhood? If a family, especially with children, experiences crime in their neighbor, would it suprise you if they wanted to move somewhere else? The same for a business subjected to frequent shoplifting or assaults on employees? People value public order. That's what separates the good neighborhoods from the bad. A permissive attitude towards crime reduces public order, and trust. Quality of life drops. Those who have the means get out. Only the poor remain to be victimized. It's just sort of bizarre that those who advocate crime permissiveness are shocked - shocked - when the consequencies of those policies affect them.

And yet, these crime infested neighborhoods that scare people away get gentrified. Social phenomena are more complicated than this one thing over here or that one thing over there.

 

[Oleg]

And yet, these crime infested neighborhoods that scare people away get gentrified. Social phenomena are more complicated than this one thing over here or that one thing over there.

So when people who care about social order displace people who don't the neighborhood gets better? I'm shocked.

 

[Oleg]

Bad policy choices have consequences.

Crime, insurance rates pushing restaurant owner out of Seattle

Nick Bui is keeping an eye on the progress as construction crews are busy building out the new location of his restaurant, Dong Thap Noodles, in Tukwila.

komonews.com

“Doing business is very tough in the CID," Bui said. "We’ve been broken in numerous times, and it’s quite dangerous for a business owner without insurance."

Bui said the situation in Seattle worsened in recent years, and the CID turned into a place where his customers stopped feeling comfortable.

There was a shooting outside his restaurant in February 2022 and police moved in a mobile precinct to the area.

“It’s the crime," Bui said. "A lot of graffiti, gun violence, robberies and break-ins.”

 

[Toni]

Other than the obvious that both the police and community wants them gone; what does that have to do with the relationship between the police and the community they serve?

That's not obvious at all.

If nobody in the community wanted the drugs, there wouldn't be any. Enough people do to keep the problem going.

And for cops, it's kinda like a job security issue. Not only the actual "war on drugs". Also all the related crimes, like robbery and burglary and DUI and such. If everyone stopped abusing alcohol and other drugs we could eliminate 75% of the police force. Put more effort into "the war on corporate malfeasance" and "political corruption" and such.
Tom

You know that people from nice, white neighborhoods specifically drive through poorer neighborhoods looking to score drugs, right?

 

[Oleg]

You know that people from nice, white neighborhoods specifically drive through poorer neighborhoods looking to score drugs, right?

Correct. Because they know that open drug dealing would not be acceptable in their own neighborhood.

 

[Toni]

One thing for sure is the police requires the assistance of the community at large to get their job done. When you break trust by not holding officers accountable for their mistakes (deliberate or not) the community becomes afraid to and/or flat out reluctant to assist. The lack of trust makes any police force (no matter what kind of fancy name you give it) ineffective.

You realize the primary driver of crime is the drug war?

the primary driver of crime is poverty.

Poverty--as in the mental state, not as in a lack of money.

Bullshit.

 

[Elixir]

Poverty--as in the mental state, not as in a lack of money.

Bullshit.

Some people have never been literally hungry. It’s hard to understand what that can do to a person.

 

[Gospel]

Ok so in Orlando (this coming from family on the force) there is an issue with gangs. The gangs are (still) not large enough to become a real threat to the community but there are so many of them that they are hard to keep track of.

The police are always forthcoming with community leaders. And by community leaders I don't mean people working in any official capacity. The dynamics Is not every member of the police force is on the same page. Some are just there to collect a paycheck and others have their own questionable motives.

Anywho, I'm sharing this just to give a glimpse. Two.of my family members is a part of the MBI (.Metropolitan Bureau of Investigation) Not operating out of the same county. One is Polk and the other Volusia but they are both a part of my support team in helping people in my community dealing with our youth.

.just this month a good neighbor lost a wife. Was already dealing with a struggling teen. By struggling I mean half way in and out of criminal bullshit (long story). These officers and friends with my help was able to remove obstacles (can't get into details) making it easier to keep the kid on track. It's scary, not easy. Just sharing what I can without giving too much to say law enforcement is very fucking important to me. And if I didn't have them to trust I likely wouldn't be useful in my neighbors life at all.

Edit: or dead

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Poverty--as in the mental state, not as in a lack of money.

Poverty, as in the abandonment of the banks from investing in those areas so that they could help fund the unbuilt suburbs.

Banks will invest wherever they expect to make money.

I know when the redline issue hit the news some years back I looked at the local situation:

Scenario A: Banks are racist--but only against those buying property in black areas with low down payment mortgages. Why all the qualifiers?

Scenario B: Banks are looking at expected future price growth as well as the factors the government researchers are looking at. Yes, this isn't an ideal yardstick but that doesn't mean it's of no value. In this scenario there is no racism, just bankers concerned with underwater property--and we know banks very much do not like underwater property.

Which scenario requires the fewest assumptions? The fewest irrational acts?

As with the vast majority of "racism", the evidence says it's really socioeconomic. Banks don't like writing low-down mortgages when house prices aren't going up.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Another fantastic fantasy I'm tired of folks banging on about is the delusional idea that black people are more involved in illegal drug use and sales than white people. That is complete rubbish. What's happening and has been happening for ages now is the concentration of police funding and engagement in predominantly black communities.

I would be very surprised if you were correct here. Drugs are (as has been said above) very often a reaction to a shitty situation--and blacks are disproportionately in shitty situations.

However, the police difference is to be expected:

1) It's easier to bust dealers at a lower economic level because it's easier to find and doesn't need an introduction. Busting dealers at higher economic levels pretty much requires busting a customer for something else and using them to get the dealer.

2) The real problem with drugs is the crime to obtain money for drugs--and that's mostly a feature of the low economic levels. Taking out the guy who sells to the rich won't produce nearly the benefit as taking out the guy who sells to the poor.

Thus the police go after the easier targets that produce more benefit--and, as almost always, the real reason is socioeconomic, not race.

 

[Jarhyn]

Ok so in Orlando (this coming from family on the force) there is an issue with gangs. The gangs are (still) not large enough to become a real threat to the community but there are so many of them that they are hard to keep track of.

The police are always forthcoming with community leaders. And by community leaders I don't mean people working in any official capacity. The dynamics Is not every member of the police force is on the same page. Some are just there to collect a paycheck and others have their own questionable motives.

Anywho, I'm sharing this just to give a glimpse. Two.of my family members is a part of the MBI (.Metropolitan Bureau of Investigation) Not operating out of the same county. One is Polk and the other Volusia but they are both a part of my support team in helping people in my community dealing with our youth.

.just this month a good neighbor lost a wife. Was already dealing with a struggling teen. By struggling I mean half way in and out of criminal bullshit (long story). These officers and friends with my help was able to remove obstacles (can't get into details) making it easier to keep the kid on track. It's scary, not easy. Just sharing what I can without giving too much to say law enforcement is very fucking important to me. And if I didn't have them to trust I likely wouldn't be useful in my neighbors life at all.

Edit: or dead

Gangs are a major issue. There is one operating near where I live, the entire neighborhood knows exactly who and where they are, and we know they have been involved in violence.

I wouldn't hesitate to inform police of this, but there's nothing to inform, really except loud parties and people out at night too late with the occasional suspicious gunfire report in that general area, the exact events I have not and do not wish to see.

I would very much want to see the people involved have opportunities to make better choices, and if/when they don't, to be arrested and rehabilitated.

 

[bilby]

The real problem with drugs is the crime to obtain money for drugs--and that's mostly a feature of the low economic levels. Taking out the guy who sells to the rich won't produce nearly the benefit as taking out the guy who sells to the poor.

Neither produces any benefit.

Take out a drug dealer, and local prices rise, causing more crime. Until the high prices attract new dealers, and the situation returns to what it started at.

Who benefits? The only beneficiaries when a drug dealer is arrested are the other drug dealers in the area, and/or those on the periphery who move into the area.

The users don't benefit. The public at large don't benefit. Nobody that we should, as a society, be helping, seems to benefit at all from the arrest of a drug dealer.

 

[Gospel]

I would be very surprised if you were correct here.

Surprised to find that a comparable per capita of white people as black are involved in the use and distribution of illegal drugs? I'm not surprised you're surprised.

Rates of Drug Use and Sales, by Race; Rates of Drug Related Criminal Justice Measures, by Race | The Hamilton Project

The Hamilton Project seeks to advance America's promise of opportunity, prosperity, and growth.

www.hamiltonproject.org

However, the police difference is to be expected:

No shit. I'm just sick of clowns banging on about how the reason more black people are getting tossed in jail is because its a black culture thing.

 

[Jarhyn]

I would be very surprised if you were correct here.

Surprised to find that a comparable per capita of white people as black are involved in the use and distribution of illegal drugs? I'm not surprised you're surprised.

Rates of Drug Use and Sales, by Race; Rates of Drug Related Criminal Justice Measures, by Race | The Hamilton Project

The Hamilton Project seeks to advance America's promise of opportunity, prosperity, and growth.

www.hamiltonproject.org

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However, the police difference is to be expected:

No shit. I'm just sick of clowns banging on about how the reason more black people are getting tossed in jail is because its a black culture thing.

Yeah, it's an education thing combined with preexisting problems.

Lots of white people buy and sell drugs but the ones I encounter use the internet. Very few of the white drug dealers I have met in my life have deep gang ties, and so there is very little violence or visibility in that supply chain. You don't need a gang leader or turf to buy drugs that way or to sell them.

White drug dealers as a result end up being independent, word of mouth folks who deal pretty exclusively with friends rather than "slinging" on the street where they would build up a criminal record and police observability.

Either through a failure of education or because of preexisting structures within the black community (probably both), many black people just don't have a good grasp on how to accomplish that. Indeed the difficulty of banking and finding jobs that pay at least well enough mask digital currency activities, there is probably a financial threshold that isn't accessible either.

As a result, black drug dealers are going to tend towards drop-outs lured by Thug Lyfe, and white drug dealers are going to be a mix of drop-outs and folks who are a mix of intelligent, bored, and chemically interested.

So, part of it is black culture, part of it is educational disparity, as far as arrests go.

It's just easier to bust someone who sells drugs publicly on a busy street, and this is why I see so many more black folks being tossed in jail.

A large portion of white people learn how to deal drugs at college and a large portion of black people learn how to deal drugs from not finishing highschool. That IS cultural, but caused by cultural systems created by white people who, for a very long time, sought to establish the trends of whites going to college and blacks going to prison.

 

[Gospel]

Whatever I'm just saying illegal drugs are not just a black thing. It's a white thing too.