Holy Crap - The Revolution is about to start

[laughing dog]

I don't know how you conclude it was a safety issue from that. Regardless, to paint with a broad brush and conclude Trump supporters are not to be helped because...they're dangerous and crazy?!...is pretty reckless, don't you think? How is that any different than saying avoid homes with Muslim residents, because "those people" like to kill others?

Because it's embedded in a list of safety stuff, right next to deescalation. Given that we had actual attacks by Republicans on FEMA workers it's not unreasonable advice other than because of the political situation.

This is a stupid fucking reason to avoid providing help to those in need... because some other people who support the same fucking politician did something bad somewhere else? You think it's reasonable to extend that to everyone, and take the position that ALL trump supporters are a danger?

How do you feel about illegal immigrants, given that some of them have committed heinous violent crimes?

The same way I feel about natural born US citizens given that some of them have committed heinous violent crime. I find your question bigoted and fucking inane.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

 

[Emily Lake]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

 

[Elixir]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

Y’all better knock it off. Next thing you know chicken will be $15 a pound.

 

[Emily Lake]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

Y’all better knock it off. Next thing you know chicken will be $15 a pound.

I feel like I should find this funny... but I don't understand it. Please explain?

 

[Elixir]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

Y’all better knock it off. Next thing you know chicken will be $15 a pound.

I feel like I should find this funny... but I don't understand it. Please explain?

The “illegals” who come to the US are routinely employed by meat packers and slaughterhouses. (Or, the people who do the dirty work of meat processing are largely “illegals”) Punish the employers or deprive them of their illegal labor force, and the retail price of their products will skyrocket. I chose chicken just because I’ve read more about chicken processing than cattle or pork processing. But all of it would go up, significantly. We really need a way to accommodate the ”illegals” and integrate them into our economy. It will be expensive, but a fraction of what it would cost to expel them and fine their employers. Nothing much funny about it, though $15/lb might be a tad hyperbolic.

 

[Emily Lake]

Thank you for accommodating my lack of understanding!

 

[ZiprHead]

Just for clarity, you get that I'm not actually making that argument, right? I'm using it as a vehicle to highlight the illogic of Loren's position.

Do you get that you burned yourself with that argumant, no matter your intention?

 

[ZiprHead]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

Most of them that the right calls illegals are asylum seekers. Asylum seekers are not criminals.

 

[Elixir]

Asylum seekers are not criminals.

Hold my Diet Dr Pepper

 

[Politesse]

The “illegals” who come to the US are routinely employed by meat packers and slaughterhouses. (Or, the people who do the dirty work of meat processing are largely “illegals”) Punish the employers or deprive them of their illegal labor force, and the retail price of their products will skyrocket..

Don't worry, I'm sure all these lazy-ass Trumpers will suddenly get up off their fucking couches, burn their welfare checks, and go to work at the abattoire. Just as soon as Hannity is over.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't know how you conclude it was a safety issue from that. Regardless, to paint with a broad brush and conclude Trump supporters are not to be helped because...they're dangerous and crazy?!...is pretty reckless, don't you think? How is that any different than saying avoid homes with Muslim residents, because "those people" like to kill others?

Because it's embedded in a list of safety stuff, right next to deescalation. Given that we had actual attacks by Republicans on FEMA workers it's not unreasonable advice other than because of the political situation.

This is a stupid fucking reason to avoid providing help to those in need... because some other people who support the same fucking politician did something bad somewhere else? You think it's reasonable to extend that to everyone, and take the position that ALL trump supporters are a danger?

How do you feel about illegal immigrants, given that some of them have committed heinous violent crimes?

Once bitten, twice shy. The MAGA crowd has been spreading enough lies about FEMA that there is a risk. Certainly a lot more risk than your fear of penises in the women's room.

Sure sure, because 90% of assault victims are Dems and 98% of assault perpetrators are Trump supporters?

Seriously, do you even consider the consistency of your arguments? There have been far more people raped/murdered/robbed/etc by illegal immigrants than there have been FEMA workers harmed by Trump supporters. By your logic, it's therefore absolutely justifiable to take the stance that all illegal immigrants are a huge risk and nobody should ever help them, in fact, they should be avoided at all costs!

You're pulling a jump here that you have never supported.

Yes, men commit most rapes. That doesn't say that "men" dressed as women in women's restrooms are a problem. Nor does it say that you can actually effectively exclude them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How do you feel about illegal immigrants, given that some of them have committed heinous violent crimes?

A little better than I feel about American citizens, who commit far more heinous crimes, and at a higher rate.
(sorry for intruding, carry on... )

Just for clarity, you get that I'm not actually making that argument, right? I'm using it as a vehicle to highlight the illogic of Loren's position.

I tend to have a severe objection to criminals across the board. I also think that if those criminals are not US citizens, we should evict them from the country altogether.

I have no problem with the idea of evicting non-citizen criminals, whether they are here legally or not. In practice I realize it's often very hard to do.

I do have a problem with measures designed to cause them to commit offenses, though. No DL doesn't stop them from driving, it causes them to be unlicensed and uninsured. And arresting them on any contact with law enforcement means they'll operate with the "justice" system of the streets. Causing them to avoid working with the system makes problems for Americans, not just for the illegals. Be careful what you wish for!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

It's already been shown the problem with this: Most are working on forged documents, not under the table. If you want to punish employers you need a good way of establishing whether the person is who they claim they are--and our track record with identity theft says we aren't able to do this adequately.

 

[TomC]

Most are working on forged documents, not under the table. If you want to punish employers you need a good way of establishing whether the person is who they claim they are--and our track record with identity theft says we aren't able to do this adequately.

They are working under the table because the US is schizophrenic on the subject. Employers will hand out jobs while the government refuses to give out documents.

And in my experience, few are working under the table. Most work for employers who know perfectly well that they are not documented. Maybe not "perfectly" well, the DADT thing works really well in this situation.

How about we give as many work documents as we are willing to give jobs? How about that? Lose the schizophrenic government policy concerning immigration?
Tom

 

[Elixir]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

It's already been shown the problem with this: Most are working on forged documents, not under the table. If you want to punish employers you need a good way of establishing whether the person is who they claim they are--and our track record with identity theft says we aren't able to do this adequately.

Well, if they’re using a SS# that is already in use by another of your employees…
There are probably other ways as well. The biggest problem is that it is strongly in the interest of bulk employers of “illegals” to remain as clueless as possible about their employees’ immigration status.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Well, if they’re using a SS# that is already in use by another of your employees…
There are probably other ways as well. The biggest problem is that it is strongly in the interest of bulk employers of “illegals” to remain as clueless as possible about their employees’ immigration status.

Especially if they know that there will be little to no punishment for them personally if they are found out.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

It's already been shown the problem with this: Most are working on forged documents, not under the table. If you want to punish employers you need a good way of establishing whether the person is who they claim they are--and our track record with identity theft says we aren't able to do this adequately.

Well, if they’re using a SS# that is already in use by another of your employees…
There are probably other ways as well. The biggest problem is that it is strongly in the interest of bulk employers of “illegals” to remain as clueless as possible about their employees’ immigration status.

But is it cooperation or identity theft? One might be legal and we have no good procedure in place to figure out which one.

 

[ZiprHead]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

It's already been shown the problem with this: Most are working on forged documents, not under the table. If you want to punish employers you need a good way of establishing whether the person is who they claim they are--and our track record with identity theft says we aren't able to do this adequately.

Well, if they’re using a SS# that is already in use by another of your employees…
There are probably other ways as well. The biggest problem is that it is strongly in the interest of bulk employers of “illegals” to remain as clueless as possible about their employees’ immigration status.

But is it cooperation or identity theft? One might be legal and we have no good procedure in place to figure out which one.

How about the employer knowingly participating in Social Security fraud.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I also think we should evict ALL illegal immigrants regardless of whether they committed any crimes or not. Come in through legal channels, I'll support you. Break the rules and you're out.

do you also think the government should arrest business owners who employ illegal immigrants? A big part of the reason these people come is for these jobs. If we take away the incentive perhaps fewer will come in the first place.

At a minimum I think they should be fined an amount that hurts and will act as a meaningful deterrent.

It's already been shown the problem with this: Most are working on forged documents, not under the table. If you want to punish employers you need a good way of establishing whether the person is who they claim they are--and our track record with identity theft says we aren't able to do this adequately.

Well, if they’re using a SS# that is already in use by another of your employees…
There are probably other ways as well. The biggest problem is that it is strongly in the interest of bulk employers of “illegals” to remain as clueless as possible about their employees’ immigration status.

But is it cooperation or identity theft? One might be legal and we have no good procedure in place to figure out which one.

We have the court system. Why is that not a “good procedure” to use? If the prosecutor can prove cooperation, or at least negligence, why wouldn’t that be an appropriate venue to “figure out” what’s happening?