How can you say that all environments are equal when they behave completely different?

[TomC]

because I am wear armour not made of

< snickers > at the language lesson

Tom

No eating in class!

I'm not eating.

I'm not even wearing clothes.
Tom

 

[NightHawkBuzz]

But remember the things they stand for are good things. Liberals want to allow for full trans rights and lgbtq rigths. Liberals want to allow there to be a different gender besides male and female. Biden is responsible for allowing so many migrants to be here. Liberals want to allow so many illegals to be here as well as having almost open borders.

There laws are good because liberals are trying to trying to change this country in a very dangerous way.

So you have a problem with lesbian-gay-bisexual-transexual rights? What problem would that be? Also, most of these “illegal immigrants” you keep nattering ignorantly about are REFUGEES from countries in turmoil, where their lives are in danger, often because of OUR meddling in those countries. Most of the people that come into this country, illegal or otherwise, are astoundingly honest and hard working people who get exploited all over the place. I personally KNOW some of these people, living as I do in a big city. Hell, guess why your lettuce and many other farm products at the store are so cheap? Got a clue.

Incidentally, TRANSSEXUAL people exist. People whose brain gender and body gender disagree EXIST. How dare you presume to deny them their human rights?

You have NO BUSINESS in politics. People like you in politics ARE the problem.

Your dumbass opinions and comments don't mean a goddamn thing to me. I don't give a fuck about your opinion and I am going to be a politician regardless of whatever you think. It's actually you that has NO BUSINESS in politics. People like you should NEVER be in politics because you are what makes this country worse. It's people like you that allow this horrible behavior to go on that should NEVER EVER BE APART OF POLITICS.

I will ACTUALLY become a successful politician one day and you will NEVER even be a part of politics. You will keep sitting online typing to other people with NO POWER while I will actually be the politician and have the POWER to make the decisions I want to. So this opinion of yours literally mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

You have absolutely NO BUSINESS being apart of politics at ANY LEVEL and you NEVER will be.

Yes I have a problem with gay rights I do not believe that gay rights should be allowed and that gay people should be allowed to marry. No I don't believe that people that ACTIVELY decide to change the hormones inside of their body should be given the same rights as straight people. Gay marriage should never be allowed nor should gay adoption be allowed.

No country should be telling it's people that they were born with the wrong gender. Transgender NEVER even existed in human history until recently and now of a sudden we are acting like this is normal when it's not. People like you who try to justify and excuse this behavior as normal ARE the problem.

 

[NightHawkBuzz]

Liberals want to allow trans rights at a full level.

What's wrong with me having rights at a "full level" now?

That’s great question. What is wrong with Jarhyn having full rights as a citizen?

There's nothing wrong with it. We just have different opinions we just see things differently.

Different opinions on me "having rights at a full level". So either you see something wrong with it or you are a "liberal".

I absolutely see something wrong with it.

Let's dig into this again, what rights do you not want me to have and on what justification?

And if you start talking about the blood libel that people have been whipping up lately, we're going to have issues.

The only things I as a trans person what rights to are the rights to, as a trans person, consult with a medical professional and receive the care outlined in the SoC8, and have the exact same rights as anyone else, pri.arily the right to be left alone unless I do something that damages someone else's life, liberty or pursuit of happiness.

You are being dreadfully disingenuous about what a "difference of opinion" means here. In fact, you make mockery if t very idea of an "opinion".

So let's get back to it: exactly what rights have trans people sought that is unreasonable, and then we can dig up all the times in the past where I have actually discussed here on these forums and which you have full access to what I find reasonable.

Also as an aside to Rhea because I AM aware of how ugly these things turn, I would like to apologize for being the can of worms this very fine person just opened.

First of all gender change has NEVER existed before in human history. Now of a sudden we are acting like this is normal when it's not just because recently people decided this was something to do it shouldn't exist at all.

When I mean what rights trans people have sough that are unreasonable are

1. Wanting to use the bathroom of the opposite sex- NOBODY should have to deal with a transgender person in the bathroom because you are still mentally and physically your biological sex.
2. Playing in the opposite sex sport
3. Using pronouns. NOBODY needs to be required to call you something else or should have to because you decided you wanted to be someone different.
4. Gender affirming care- There should be no gender affirming care.

 

[Elixir]

1. Wanting to use the bathroom of the opposite sex- NOBODY should have to deal with a transgender person in the bathroom because you are still mentally and physically your biological sex.
2. Playing in the opposite sex sport
3. Using pronouns. NOBODY needs to be required to call you something else or should have to because you decided you wanted to be someone different.
4. Gender affirming care- There should be no gender affirming care.

How have these things this impacted your life Buzz?
I got beaten by a girl in tennis when I was about 13. She was only 11.
6-1, 6-1.
I probably would have felt better about it if I thought she was a boy, but she didn't even have the courtesy to pretend to be one.
I never got over it.
You? I'm dying to hear about it.

 

[pood]

But remember the things they stand for are good things. Liberals want to allow for full trans rights and lgbtq rigths. Liberals want to allow there to be a different gender besides male and female. Biden is responsible for allowing so many migrants to be here. Liberals want to allow so many illegals to be here as well as having almost open borders.

There laws are good because liberals are trying to trying to change this country in a very dangerous way.

So you have a problem with lesbian-gay-bisexual-transexual rights? What problem would that be? Also, most of these “illegal immigrants” you keep nattering ignorantly about are REFUGEES from countries in turmoil, where their lives are in danger, often because of OUR meddling in those countries. Most of the people that come into this country, illegal or otherwise, are astoundingly honest and hard working people who get exploited all over the place. I personally KNOW some of these people, living as I do in a big city. Hell, guess why your lettuce and many other farm products at the store are so cheap? Got a clue.

Incidentally, TRANSSEXUAL people exist. People whose brain gender and body gender disagree EXIST. How dare you presume to deny them their human rights?

You have NO BUSINESS in politics. People like you in politics ARE the problem.

Your dumbass opinions and comments don't mean a goddamn thing to me. I don't give a fuck about your opinion and I am going to be a politician regardless of whatever you think. It's actually you that has NO BUSINESS in politics. People like you should NEVER be in politics because you are what makes this country worse. It's people like you that allow this horrible behavior to go on that should NEVER EVER BE APART OF POLITICS.

I will ACTUALLY become a successful politician one day and you will NEVER even be a part of politics. You will keep sitting online typing to other people with NO POWER while I will actually be the politician and have the POWER to make the decisions I want to. So this opinion of yours literally mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

You have absolutely NO BUSINESS being apart of politics at ANY LEVEL and you NEVER will be.

Yes I have a problem with gay rights I do not believe that gay rights should be allowed and that gay people should be allowed to marry. No I don't believe that people that ACTIVELY decide to change the hormones inside of their body should be given the same rights as straight people. Gay marriage should never be allowed nor should gay adoption be allowed.

No country should be telling it's people that they were born with the wrong gender. Transgender NEVER even existed in human history until recently and now of a sudden we are acting like this is normal when it's not. People like you who try to justify and excuse this behavior as normal ARE the problem.

LOL, look at your true colors come out!

 

[pood]

You will keep sitting online typing to other people with NO POWER while I will actually be the politician and have the POWER to make the decisions I want to.

In fact you will neer have any POWER at all, whereas I have the POWER, right now, to make you reveal your true, inner self just by typing a few words into the ozone!

 

[Jarhyn]

I absolutely see something wrong with it.

Are you familiar with the b
Bible verse Matthew 19:12?

First of all gender change has NEVER existed before in human history

Again, are you familiar with the Bible verse Matthew 19:12?

Are you familiar with the Hijra of India? They are a culture thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of years old.

And the bible discussed people becoming eunuchs, which is what I am, BTW, in a rather favorable light.

Wanting to use the bathroom of the opposite sex- NOBODY should have to deal with a transgender person in the bathroom because you are still mentally and physically your biological sex.

That's really not how that works.

I have never been mentally "male". I have always been something else. But moreover hormones affect mentality and now I'm not even that much. My behavior and mindset are just different now.

Again, we accepted throughout human history the innocuousness of the Eunuch with respect to sexuality and mindset, in fact commonly accepted to live with women in intimate settings, and yet you would take issue with people who often go far further than doing things that have even more extreme effects, such as fully suppressing testosterone with estrogen.

The statistics are pretty clear that trans women don't attack women in bathrooms, but men sure attack trans women in men's bathrooms.

Playing in the opposite sex sport

We have bickered and argued on these forums since long before I made my own transition about this.

It would be rather nonsensical to bar a trans girl who has never had a "male" puberty from playing in sports fashioned to reject male natural advantages.

If our world was yet one where someone could grow up choosing to be a eunuch, for instance, they would probably most likely find equal competition in women's sports.

Using pronouns. NOBODY needs to be required to call you something else or should have to because you decided you wanted to be someone different.

There's nothing about "being someone different".

If I started calling you "it", for example, you would likely be cross with me. I have seen no evidence from you that you are even a human being, OR a person, of any kind.

Instead I use "they" because while I do not know your gender, I don't give a shit about your gender. You're they.

The problem is that gender is a set of words something deep inside your brain says to you in a neuronal machine language, and it says the words you are a ______.

Mine says "You are a eunuch" and so I am.

These things are structural, biological, as meaningful to who we are as the transistors of an adder are meaningful to the operation of a Turing machine. If you change them, even small pathways, you can pivot the whole behavior of the system in bizarre ways.

Gender affirming care- There should be no gender affirming care.

So no boner pills, no tit jobs, no testosterone injections for "low T men", no testosterone treatment for cops who accidentally shoot their balls off, no progesterone or estrogen for women in menopause, no castration for people who seek to become Eunuchs, no Spironolactone for those who wish to test their gender hypothesis before cutting their balls off, no blockers for precocious puberty, no hormones of any kind for those born without gonads, and to become a eunuch you would have to do it yourself.

You will have "boys" cutting their own balls off with a knife, or injecting them with alcohol, as some have done, or getting a banding machine and having a farmer do it in a barn.

Or would you have the government mechanically chase these people down and inject us with the hormones we don't want, even those of us who have fought free of our unwanted gonads?

Would you perhaps hunt us down as gender traitors like Handmaid's Tale? Would you hunt our parents down for saving our lives by getting us treatment, for those who are not as strong as people like me? I already know because this is what your idols have started doing, and claimed to want to do in Project 2025.

The problem is that we already know what it is that you really want. It's obvious and it's always been obvious. You want children deprived of any discussion of consent, of anatomy, and of hormonal realities, including the reality of means to make our own decisions about hormones.

Read the SoC8. Gender affirming care is afforded to a lot of people for a lot of reasons.

 

[steve_bank]

But remember the things they stand for are good things. Liberals want to allow for full trans rights and lgbtq rigths. Liberals want to allow there to be a different gender besides male and female. Biden is responsible for allowing so many migrants to be here. Liberals want to allow so many illegals to be here as well as having almost open borders.

There laws are good because liberals are trying to trying to change this country in a very dangerous way.

So you have a problem with lesbian-gay-bisexual-transexual rights? What problem would that be? Also, most of these “illegal immigrants” you keep nattering ignorantly about are REFUGEES from countries in turmoil, where their lives are in danger, often because of OUR meddling in those countries. Most of the people that come into this country, illegal or otherwise, are astoundingly honest and hard working people who get exploited all over the place. I personally KNOW some of these people, living as I do in a big city. Hell, guess why your lettuce and many other farm products at the store are so cheap? Got a clue.

Incidentally, TRANSSEXUAL people exist. People whose brain gender and body gender disagree EXIST. How dare you presume to deny them their human rights?

You have NO BUSINESS in politics. People like you in politics ARE the problem.

Your dumbass opinions and comments don't mean a goddamn thing to me. I don't give a fuck about your opinion and I am going to be a politician regardless of whatever you think. It's actually you that has NO BUSINESS in politics. People like you should NEVER be in politics because you are what makes this country worse. It's people like you that allow this horrible behavior to go on that should NEVER EVER BE APART OF POLITICS.

I will ACTUALLY become a successful politician one day and you will NEVER even be a part of politics. You will keep sitting online typing to other people with NO POWER while I will actually be the politician and have the POWER to make the decisions I want to. So this opinion of yours literally mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

You have absolutely NO BUSINESS being apart of politics at ANY LEVEL and you NEVER will be.

Yes I have a problem with gay rights I do not believe that gay rights should be allowed and that gay people should be allowed to marry. No I don't believe that people that ACTIVELY decide to change the hormones inside of their body should be given the same rights as straight people. Gay marriage should never be allowed nor should gay adoption be allowed.

No country should be telling it's people that they were born with the wrong gender. Transgender NEVER even existed in human history until recently and now of a sudden we are acting like this is normal when it's not. People like you who try to justify and excuse this behavior as normal ARE the problem.

WARNING sarcasm to follow...
I am really feeling that down home old time conservative Christian love for their fellow human beings. Makes me teary eyed.

A contempt for people that may surpass Trump. Happiness replaced by constantly diminishing others.

 

[pood]

First of all gender change has NEVER existed before in human history. Now of a sudden we are acting like this is normal when it's not just because recently people decided this was something to do it shouldn't exist at all.

You are, of course, completely ignorant about this topic, as you are, evidently, about ALL topics.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But remember the things they stand for are good things. Liberals want to allow for full trans rights and lgbtq rigths. Liberals want to allow there to be a different gender besides male and female. Biden is responsible for allowing so many migrants to be here. Liberals want to allow so many illegals to be here as well as having almost open borders.

There laws are good because liberals are trying to trying to change this country in a very dangerous way.

So you have a problem with lesbian-gay-bisexual-transexual rights? What problem would that be? Also, most of these “illegal immigrants” you keep nattering ignorantly about are REFUGEES from countries in turmoil, where their lives are in danger, often because of OUR meddling in those countries. Most of the people that come into this country, illegal or otherwise, are astoundingly honest and hard working people who get exploited all over the place. I personally KNOW some of these people, living as I do in a big city. Hell, guess why your lettuce and many other farm products at the store are so cheap? Got a clue.

Incidentally, TRANSSEXUAL people exist. People whose brain gender and body gender disagree EXIST. How dare you presume to deny them their human rights?

You have NO BUSINESS in politics. People like you in politics ARE the problem.

Your dumbass opinions and comments don't mean a goddamn thing to me. I don't give a fuck about your opinion and I am going to be a politician regardless of whatever you think. It's actually you that has NO BUSINESS in politics. People like you should NEVER be in politics because you are what makes this country worse. It's people like you that allow this horrible behavior to go on that should NEVER EVER BE APART OF POLITICS.

I will ACTUALLY become a successful politician one day and you will NEVER even be a part of politics. You will keep sitting online typing to other people with NO POWER while I will actually be the politician and have the POWER to make the decisions I want to. So this opinion of yours literally mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

You have absolutely NO BUSINESS being apart of politics at ANY LEVEL and you NEVER will be.

Yes I have a problem with gay rights I do not believe that gay rights should be allowed and that gay people should be allowed to marry. No I don't believe that people that ACTIVELY decide to change the hormones inside of their body should be given the same rights as straight people. Gay marriage should never be allowed nor should gay adoption be allowed.

No country should be telling it's people that they were born with the wrong gender. Transgender NEVER even existed in human history until recently and now of a sudden we are acting like this is normal when it's not. People like you who try to justify and excuse this behavior as normal ARE the problem.

Fuck that, I'm going to make my own Congress, with blackjack and hookers.

 

[Ford]

They represent me because of what they stand for. Liberals want to allow trans rights at a full level. Liberals want to allow for open borders and allow illegal immigrants to come into this country at a high rate. These three men don't stand for any of these things and more this is why they represent me.

A fine example of how you can tell someone lives in an information silo.

We all have "rights at a full level." At least on paper. Are you a human? Do you live in America? Then you have the same rights as a trans person and vice versa. You still haven't (last time I checked) spelled out which of those rights should be summarily taken from trans people. Are there any other people you'd like to also make into second class citizens? If you agree with Jesse Watters, then you want Arab and/or Muslim Americans to "get punched in the face."

As for the border and immigrants, you've bought into a lie. Again, information silo. Liberals do not want "open borders" and border enforcement has actually been more effective under the last two Democratic Presidents. You wanna know who wants "illegal immigrants to come into this country at a high rate?" Republican business owners. Why? Well, because immigrants - particularly undocumented ones - work cheaper (thus padding the all-important bottom line) and don't demand things like...I dunno...rights. There are entire industries that absolutely love illegal immigrant labor (while at the same time hating the laborers) and actually encourage illegal immigration by providing hundreds of millions of dollars in financial incentives for the immigrants to come here. Republicans like Trump, DeSantis, and Johnson have no problem with this system, and in some cases encourage it by looking the other way. When was the last time you heard of a big corporation getting shut down over having a workforce filled with undocumented laborers?

Face it...the men who "represent you" are actually big supporters of illegal immigration. But you never hear that story on your shouty cable news channel.


Edited to add: Oops. Looks like someone's throwing a little temper tantrum. Kinda like Trump!

 

[steve_bank]

Nighthawk, you are waking right into the heart of the issue.

No one should be told there is something wrong with them based solely on race and ethnicity, or pace of origin. Skin color, physical features.

I had a black friend who grew up in Jim Crow Louisiana. He personally knew somebody who got lynched for trying to register at a college. White teachers telling him he was a no good nigger.

I met his family. He and his siblings came to Seattle. They were successful. A brother rose in the fire department. Another was an entrepreneur. Don't know how much the family was worth, but went to gathering at his brother's house overlooking Lake Washington.

Man, those uppity Negros can really piss you off, can't they Nighthawk? You are on an anonymous forum, go ahead let it all out. Tell what you really think.

 

[Jarhyn]

You still haven't (last time I checked) spelled out which of those rights should be summarily taken from trans people.

The right to have the hormones that best work for them, of course.

But only for trans people, I think.

So, the right for trans people to be trans.

Cis people of course get the right to be Cis, but eunuchs don't get the right to be eunuchs. I really do wonder what they would say should be done to people who inject vodka into their gonads to castrate themselves from producing unwanted hormones, for example.

It's just sad seeing the present and thus understanding the past in a new light. It started this way in Germany, too, with the burning of the libraries of learning on sex and gender, and destroying higher education in general.

When people get educated, they have less children, and remain more functional all through life even into old age.

 

[pood]

Yes I have a problem with gay rights I do not believe that gay rights should be allowed and that gay people should be allowed to marry. No I don't believe that people that ACTIVELY decide to change the hormones inside of their body should be given the same rights as straight people. Gay marriage should never be allowed nor should gay adoption be allowed.

Sorry, Buzzy Wuzzy, the gay marriage/gay rights ship sailed years ago! Gays are getting married all over the place, gay culture is all over the place, the whole world is going gay! And there’s not a THING you can do about it! Mu-ha-ha-ha!

You have no POWER to do anything about it, Buzzy! And you never will have. Not even close.

You know, you might be happier living in Taliban-led Afghanistan.

 

[Ford]

You still haven't (last time I checked) spelled out which of those rights should be summarily taken from trans people.

The right to have the hormones that best work for them, of course.

But only for trans people, I think.

So, the right for trans people to be trans.

Or to just be the person that they are. Buzz's angry rant about pronouns is sad, because he clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Where I work, people fill out their own pronouns. One of the people on my team doesn't really identify as anything. "They" or "them" is just a placeholder. And they're brilliant. One of the best people we have, but here's the thing...if Buzz interacted with them absent the topic of identity, he'd think they were just a "normal," cool, intelligent, interesting, and talented person. Because that's what they are.

Mike Johnson would like to drag rather a large number of my co-workers into a church and try to "pray away" who they are. Trump would probably look down on my boss, my boss's boss, and my boss's boss's boss because they're women, and he'd be downright intimidated by my new boss...mostly because he's got a name with African roots...and we all know how Trump feels about black folks with African names.

 

[Rhea]

Well, that certainly went all shouty and insulting, didn’t it? Very few politicians make it anywhere with that kind of unrestrained emotional outburt.

I guess I am reassured that I needn’t worry about you getting elected, unless you are getting elected in a district that already has someone like you. But I think the Kids These Days are onto your ilk and the demographics moving to make your election less and less likely over time.

No I don't believe that people that ACTIVELY decide to change the hormones inside of their body should be given the same rights as straight people.

Oh, sweetie. You sure you are ready to unleash the wrath of post-menopausal women by trying to get between them and their hormones? I am quite sure you have no idea at all how to handle the strength, tenacity and wisdom-backed treachery that tens of millions of post menopausal women possess.

1. Wanting to use the bathroom of the opposite sex- NOBODY should have to deal with a transgender person in the bathroom because you are still mentally and physically your biological sex.
2. Playing in the opposite sex sport
3. Using pronouns. NOBODY needs to be required to call you something else or should have to because you decided you wanted to be someone different.
4. Gender affirming care- There should be no gender affirming care.

How have these things this impacted your life Buzz?
I got beaten by a girl in tennis when I was about 13. She was only 11.
6-1, 6-1.
I probably would have felt better about it if I thought she was a boy, but she didn't even have the courtesy to pretend to be one.
I never got over it.
You? I'm dying to hear about it.

This is a good question that you should answer. How *does* it afffect you?

I echo the stories of men whose pride is crushed when I beat them at something that they think I’m not entitled to do. Like auto racing. Their poor faces when they realize a “girl” (actually a full adult women, but that’s typical of them, right?) makes a faster lap with half the horsepower at track school. Dude, I just drive better than you. I’m certain they’d rather be beaten by a boy.

 

[Patooka]

Fuck that, I'm going to make my own Congress, with blackjack and hookers.

I'm in.

 

[Jarhyn]

Fuck that, I'm going to make my own Congress, with blackjack and hookers.

I'm in.

Are we picking spots? I call "hooker".

 

[TomC]

Fuck that, I'm going to make my own Congress, with blackjack and hookers.

I'm in.

Are we picking spots? I call "hooker".

I don't think he meant you get to be one.

I could be wrong.
Tom

 

[NightHawkBuzz]

Well, that certainly went all shouty and insulting, didn’t it? Very few politicians make it anywhere with that kind of unrestrained emotional outburt.

I guess I am reassured that I needn’t worry about you getting elected, unless you are getting elected in a district that already has someone like you. But I think the Kids These Days are onto your ilk and the demographics moving to make your election less and less likely over time.

Don't be so sure about that this is just online I know how to act and handle myself in person.

No I don't believe that people that ACTIVELY decide to change the hormones inside of their body should be given the same rights as straight people.

Oh, sweetie. You sure you are ready to unleash the wrath of post-menopausal women by trying to get between them and their hormones? I am quite sure you have no idea at all how to handle the strength, tenacity and wisdom-backed treachery that tens of millions of post menopausal women possess.

That's not even what I am talking about. I am saying that all homosexuality is people changing the hormones inside their body. The hormones inside your body make you attracted to the opposite sex. Gay people actively change the hormones inside their body to make them attracted to the same sex. So no that type of behavior should not be allowed because it can negatively influence other people.

1. Wanting to use the bathroom of the opposite sex- NOBODY should have to deal with a transgender person in the bathroom because you are still mentally and physically your biological sex.
2. Playing in the opposite sex sport
3. Using pronouns. NOBODY needs to be required to call you something else or should have to because you decided you wanted to be someone different.
4. Gender affirming care- There should be no gender affirming care.

How have these things this impacted your life Buzz?
I got beaten by a girl in tennis when I was about 13. She was only 11.
6-1, 6-1.
I probably would have felt better about it if I thought she was a boy, but she didn't even have the courtesy to pretend to be one.
I never got over it.
You? I'm dying to hear about it.

This is a good question that you should answer. How *does* it afffect you?

It affects me because one day they will be forcing everyone to participate in all of this. You seem to forget that transgender and homosexuality acceptance isn't just about accepting it. One day they will be forcing everyone to participate in it someway somehow which is why it shouldn't be allowed because it DOES affect me.

I echo the stories of men whose pride is crushed when I beat them at something that they think I’m not entitled to do. Like auto racing. Their poor faces when they realize a “girl” (actually a full adult women, but that’s typical of them, right?) makes a faster lap with half the horsepower at track school. Dude, I just drive better than you. I’m certain they’d rather be beaten by a boy.