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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Elixir

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The best that Ukraine can hope for is to stop the Russian advance, and then negotiate a peace deal with reasonable security guarantees.
There are NO guarantees when dealing with Russia.
They already "guaranteed" Ukraine's sovereignty in exchange for giving up their nukes.
Russia's guarantees are not worth the oxygen they spend lying about them.
The guarantees would have to be based on something other than Russia's pinky promise. Such as NATO air patrols, or that Russia withdraws behind borders that Ukraine can easily defend. For example, Russian presence in Kherson city on east side of Dnipro is unacceptable, but if Russia withdrew behind the river, it would form a natural barrier that would make it very hard to cross again.
Russia has a lot of border, and there will always be a "weakest point" they can exploit to invade their neighbors.
Unless they solve their own - and the world's - problem by getting rid of Putler and his ilk, the only actual solution will be to break Russia up.
Of course there's always the alternative; let the Russians attack whoever they want, and make as much money as possible providing "defensive materiele" to their victims.
 

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The best that Ukraine can hope for is to stop the Russian advance, and then negotiate a peace deal with reasonable security guarantees.
There are NO guarantees when dealing with Russia.
They already "guaranteed" Ukraine's sovereignty in exchange for giving up their nukes.
Russia's guarantees are not worth the oxygen they spend lying about them.
The guarantees would have to be based on something other than Russia's pinky promise. Such as NATO air patrols, or that Russia withdraws behind borders that Ukraine can easily defend. For example, Russian presence in Kherson city on east side of Dnipro is unacceptable, but if Russia withdrew behind the river, it would form a natural barrier that would make it very hard to cross again.
Russia has a lot of border, and there will always be a "weakest point" they can exploit to invade their neighbors.
Unless they solve their own - and the world's - problem by getting rid of Putler and his ilk, the only actual solution will be to break Russia up.
Of course there's always the alternative; let the Russians attack whoever they want, and make as much money as possible providing "defensive materiele" to their victims.
My point is, that it seems (even according to that think tank) that Ukraine needs wholly new training regiment for privates and officers, and the infrastructure to support it, if it intends to take back the occupied territory. That's not going happen fast, it will take several years at best. No counter-attacks means that Ukraine will have to swallow its pride and make some sort of deal.

In that time, Russia will have learned a few tricks of its own, and more importantly, it will have entrenched itself both militarily and politically in South-Eastern Ukraine. The local people will have been brainwashed with years propaganda, or replaced with people from other parts of Russia, and Russian public will consider the land as sacred and forever Russian as Crimea. A generation of children will have grown who've learned nothing in school except what the Russian government wants them to learn.

Meanwhile, Ukraine would have either suffered devastating losses without much progress, or alternatively (a worse case scenario in my opinion), settled for a de facto ceasefire and people would've been accustomed to the relative calm, much like what happened after the 2014 invasion. Same here in the west. We're not going to continue to spend trillions on a war that doesn't seem to have an end.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Russia is weaker than it seems and will crumble. Maybe Ukraine can adapt faster. If so, I'll be very happy to admit that I was mistaken.
 

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RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JULY 3
July 3, 7:45 pm ET

Click here to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.

Russian forces have likely secured the Luhansk Oblast border, although pockets of Ukrainian resistance may remain in and around Lysychansk.
Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu announced that Russian forces have captured Luhansk Oblast on July 3, after seizing Lysychansk and settlements on the Luhansk Oblast administrative border.[1] The Ukrainian General Staff also announced that Ukrainian forces withdrew from Lysychansk to avoid personnel losses.[2] Russian forces have likely not fully cleared Lysychansk and Luhansk Oblast as of July 3, despite Shoigu’s announcement. The Russian Defense Ministry stated that Russian forces are still fighting within Lysychansk to defeat remaining encircled Ukrainian forces, but the Ukrainian withdrawal means that Russian forces will almost certainly complete their clearing operations relatively quickly.[3]
The Kremlin likely seeks to expand Russian state control over private Russian companies that support elements of Russia’s military industrial base. The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on July 3 that the Russian government’s inability to pay Russian firms supporting Russia’s war in Ukraine is degrading Russia’s ability to repair damaged vehicles. The GUR reported that the directors of Russian military vehicle repair centers are not accepting new Russian equipment for repair because the Russian military has not paid these centers for previous work.[7] Recently proposed Russian legislation suggests that Kremlin leadership shares GUR’s assessment. Russian legislators in the Russian State Duma submitted a bill on June 30 that would empower the Kremlin to introduce “special measures in the economic sphere” enabling the Russian government to force private Russian companies to provide supplies for Russian military operations.[8] The bill prohibits Russian businesses from refusing to fulfil Russian government procurement orders connected to Russian military operations.
 

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RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JULY 3
July 3, 7:45 pm ET

Click here to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.

Russian forces have likely secured the Luhansk Oblast border, although pockets of Ukrainian resistance may remain in and around Lysychansk.
Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu announced that Russian forces have captured Luhansk Oblast on July 3, after seizing Lysychansk and settlements on the Luhansk Oblast administrative border.[1] The Ukrainian General Staff also announced that Ukrainian forces withdrew from Lysychansk to avoid personnel losses.[2] Russian forces have likely not fully cleared Lysychansk and Luhansk Oblast as of July 3, despite Shoigu’s announcement. The Russian Defense Ministry stated that Russian forces are still fighting within Lysychansk to defeat remaining encircled Ukrainian forces, but the Ukrainian withdrawal means that Russian forces will almost certainly complete their clearing operations relatively quickly.[3]
The Kremlin likely seeks to expand Russian state control over private Russian companies that support elements of Russia’s military industrial base. The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on July 3 that the Russian government’s inability to pay Russian firms supporting Russia’s war in Ukraine is degrading Russia’s ability to repair damaged vehicles. The GUR reported that the directors of Russian military vehicle repair centers are not accepting new Russian equipment for repair because the Russian military has not paid these centers for previous work.[7] Recently proposed Russian legislation suggests that Kremlin leadership shares GUR’s assessment. Russian legislators in the Russian State Duma submitted a bill on June 30 that would empower the Kremlin to introduce “special measures in the economic sphere” enabling the Russian government to force private Russian companies to provide supplies for Russian military operations.[8] The bill prohibits Russian businesses from refusing to fulfil Russian government procurement orders connected to Russian military operations.
Russia is doing a gradual move towards wartime economy. Without actually admitting that it's a war. Same with the covert mobilization: instead of outright saying that they're in war, they're step by step introducing measures that are indistinguishable from official mobilization. I think this gradual nature will make it less shocking to the people.
 

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Also from the above link:
Ukrainian partisans reportedly derailed a Russian armored train carrying ammunition near Melitopol on July 2.[33] Kremlin-sponsored outlet RIA Novosti acknowledged that the train derailed around Yakymivka, but claimed that the incident was an accident.[34] Ukrainian partisans previously targeted Russian armored trains and locomotives in Melitopol in late April and mid-May.[35]
 

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Bizarre rantings from Belarus leader Lukashenko. Such as demiltarizing Ukraiine and the entire NATO alliance.

Belarus has a population of 9.3 millions.
 

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And the obvious counter is to just have more smaller depots instead of large ones, which I'm pretty sure Russia is in the process of doing.
That’s a good counter against artillery strikes, but makes security against sabotage much harder. It’s a trade off that usually favours large ammo dumps when operating in occupied territories; By forcing the dispersal of these dumps, they become more vulnerable, or at the very least tie up a larger number of men in their defence, making those men unavailable for offensive operations.
 

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And the obvious counter is to just have more smaller depots instead of large ones, which I'm pretty sure Russia is in the process of doing.
That’s a good counter against artillery strikes, but makes security against sabotage much harder. It’s a trade off that usually favours large ammo dumps when operating in occupied territories; By forcing the dispersal of these dumps, they become more vulnerable, or at the very least tie up a larger number of men in their defence, making those men unavailable for offensive operations.

I imagine that it would also be a problem for keeping track of inventories in more locations, keeping them stocked, and being able to distribute the ammunition efficiently. That's what I imagine, but I have no expertise in battlefield tactics and logistics.
 

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Let's run some numbers. According to the RUSI report, Russia is using 20k shells every day versus Ukraine's 6k. If number of ammo dumps is the bottleneck, Ukraine would need to destroy 70% of them just to bring Russia down to parity.

How many dumps does Russia have? Hundreds maybe? Let's say 200. That means 140 locations need to be hit. At current rate, which seems to be about 1 dump per night, that will take 4.5 months. The rate will increase as Ukraine gets more equipment, but also decrease when easier targets are destroyed, so let's assume it's static. That's 4 months to bring Russia's artillery down to the level where both sides are equal, but even then, Russia might have the advantage of better drones and a system of working the artillery.

I think the war will end when both sides reach an equilibrium. That means we might be halfway through.
 

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Let's run some numbers. According to the RUSI report, Russia is using 20k shells every day versus Ukraine's 6k. If number of ammo dumps is the bottleneck, Ukraine would need to destroy 70% of them just to bring Russia down to parity.

How many dumps does Russia have? Hundreds maybe? Let's say 200. That means 140 locations need to be hit. At current rate, which seems to be about 1 dump per night, that will take 4.5 months. The rate will increase as Ukraine gets more equipment, but also decrease when easier targets are destroyed, so let's assume it's static. That's 4 months to bring Russia's artillery down to the level where both sides are equal, but even then, Russia might have the advantage of better drones and a system of working the artillery.

I think the war will end when both sides reach an equilibrium. That means we might be halfway through.
This math is utterly fallacious. I'll leave it to the readers to figure out why.
 

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The best that Ukraine can hope for is to stop the Russian advance, and then negotiate a peace deal with reasonable security guarantees.
There are NO guarantees when dealing with Russia.
They already "guaranteed" Ukraine's sovereignty in exchange for giving up their nukes.
Russia's guarantees are not worth the oxygen they spend lying about them.
Totally agree. Russian word is shit.
Actually it's NATO word is shit. Even Ukarainians agree with Russia about that :)
 

barbos

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Let's run some numbers. According to the RUSI report, Russia is using 20k shells every day versus Ukraine's 6k. If number of ammo dumps is the bottleneck, Ukraine would need to destroy 70% of them just to bring Russia down to parity.

How many dumps does Russia have? Hundreds maybe? Let's say 200. That means 140 locations need to be hit. At current rate, which seems to be about 1 dump per night, that will take 4.5 months. The rate will increase as Ukraine gets more equipment, but also decrease when easier targets are destroyed, so let's assume it's static. That's 4 months to bring Russia's artillery down to the level where both sides are equal, but even then, Russia might have the advantage of better drones and a system of working the artillery.

I think the war will end when both sides reach an equilibrium. That means we might be halfway through.
This math is utterly fallacious. I'll leave it to the readers to figure out why.
Because YOU did the math?
 

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As if the "people's republics" are anything but Russian puppets.
And western "ukrainians" are US puppets and nazis.

We can do it all day long.
Except that my statement was factually correct, yours is just a baseless taunt.

There is plenty of evidence that the separatist leaders were installed by FSB. Igor Girkin himself is a former Russian FSB agent, not a local from Donetsk or Luhansk. It's public knowledge. And just a while ago, the entire government of the "people's republic" of Donetsk was sacked and replaced by Russians. Not "ethnic Russians from Donbas", but Russian Russians from Russia. What does that tell you?

On the other hand, there is no evidence that the Ukrainian government or "western ukrainians" are working for the CIA. In fact, they're often going against what the west wants them to do. USA wanted Zelensky to flee, but he didn't. If anything, the western nations are currently being puppeteered by Zelensky.
 

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There is plenty of evidence that the separatist leaders were installed by FSB.
It proves nothing, In fact, that would be dereliction of duty if FSB was NOT involved.
Having said that, anti-maidan revolt in Eastern Ukraine was and is real and popular.
And there is plenty of evidence that CIA and state department were behind maidan itself. I mean, they admitted the whole damn thing. Same thing with Georgia and all the other color revolution crap - all paid by US taxpayers.
So.....
 

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The best that Ukraine can hope for is to stop the Russian advance, and then negotiate a peace deal with reasonable security guarantees.
There are NO guarantees when dealing with Russia.
They already "guaranteed" Ukraine's sovereignty in exchange for giving up their nukes.
Russia's guarantees are not worth the oxygen they spend lying about them.
Totally agree. Russian word is shit.
Actually it's NATO word is shit. Even Ukarainians agree with Russia about that :)

Since the population of Ukarainia is 0, I finally find something that barbos said to be credible.
 

Copernicus

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Since the population of Ukarainia is 0, I finally find something that barbos said to be credible.

Aren’t those the people who play Ukaleles?

That was how I initially read his post, but I don't think that there are any good polls of ukalele players to corroborate his claim. So I figured that it was probably the legendary pro-Russia nation of Ukarainia that he was talking about. No Nazis there, either.
 

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Except that my statement was factually correct, yours is just a baseless taunt.
No, Mine was correct, yours is baseless CNN garbage.
I provided evidence for my claim. You didn't.

There is plenty of evidence that the separatist leaders were installed by FSB.
It proves nothing, In fact, that would be dereliction of duty if FSB was NOT involved.
So you admit that the fake "people's republics" were installed by FSB. What are we even arguing about?

Having said that, anti-maidan revolt in Eastern Ukraine was and is real and popular.
No, it wasn't. In polls conducted right after Russian agents started storming government buildings in Donbas, 70% of the local people said they wanted to stay with Ukraine. Sure, they weren't happy with the government in Kyiv, but that isn't a permission slip for Kremlin to send terrorists to take over.

Even in polls conducted in 2016 and 2019, after most pro-Ukrainians had left, and the remaining people had been brainwashed with Russian propaganda, the majority wanted reunification with Ukraine (65% and 55% respectively). The proportion of people in the Ukrainian controlled territories (which Russia has now mostly taken by force) who wanted Donbas to secede from Ukraine or join Russia, was in low single digits, so they definitely didn't ask for the invasion.

And there is plenty of evidence that CIA and state department were behind maidan itself. I mean, they admitted the whole damn thing. Same thing with Georgia and all the other color revolution crap - all paid by US taxpayers.
So.....
Conspiracy theorist nonsense made up by Russian propaganda. The CIA and state department weren't behind Maidan, and you haven't given any actual evidence to support that claim. Even the leaked phone call from early 2014 ("Fuck Europe") shows that USA was not in charge; the plan they discussed in the call didn't happen.

Show us where CIA or DOS "admitted the whole damn thing", and we'll continue. So far all you've done is regurgitate the same tired old propaganda you got straight from Putin's ass.
 

Elixir

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So far all you've done is regurgitate the same tired old propaganda you got straight from Putin's ass.
To his credit, he has also managed to articulate his deepest thoughts:
“I know you are, but what am I?”
 

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The Royal United Services Institute published an interesting analysis yesterday about Ukraine's and Russia's capabilities, and how the west should best help the former:


I highly recommend reading it, or at least the summary.

Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:


Around 1,050 UK service personnel are deploying to run the programme, which will take place at MOD sites across the North West, South West and South East of the UK. Each course will last several weeks and will be conducted by elements from 11 Security Force Assistance Brigade.

The training will give volunteer recruits with little to no military experience the skills to be effective in frontline combat. Based on the UK’s basic soldier training, the course covers weapons handling, battlefield first aid, fieldcraft, patrol tactics and the Law of Armed Conflict.

(...)

The UK has a long history of supporting Ukrainian service personnel through Operation ORBITAL, which trained 22,000 Ukrainians between 2015 and 2022. The new programme will build on this success and demonstrate the UK’s continued leadership in responding to Ukraine’s military requirements as the war evolves.

So maybe my earlier skepticism about NATO building up offensive-capable troops from the ground up was unwarranted. It will take a while before this takes effect though.
 

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People on youtube did the math and concluded
Mate, people on YouTube did the math and concluded that the pyramids were built by aliens, that Queen Elizabeth II is a lizard in disguise, and that JFK was shot by Elvis.
Ukraine is losing 1000 soldiers a day, UK needs to train at least that much.
And these "soldiers" UK proposing to train are useless anyway. What Ukraine needs are soldiers which can operate artillery and other sophisticated equipment and you are not going to train them in 3 months.

 

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People on youtube did the math and concluded
Mate, people on YouTube did the math and concluded that the pyramids were built by aliens, that Queen Elizabeth II is a lizard in disguise, and that JFK was shot by Elvis.
Ukraine is losing 1000 soldiers a day, UK needs to train at least that much.
And these "soldiers" UK proposing to train are useless anyway. What Ukraine needs are soldiers which can operate artillery and other sophisticated equipment and you are not going to train them in 3 months.


Can we trust John Pilger? I would say do so at your own peril.
 

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Remember when Barbos said Russia had the support of the vast majority of the world to invade Unkraine. Turns out he was wrong:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has walked out of talks during the G20 meeting, denouncing the West for "frenzied criticism," and squandering a chance to tackle global economic problems.

Held on the Indonesian island of Bali, the forum was the first face-to-face meeting between Russia and the fiercest critics of its war in Ukraine.

The spotlight was firmly on Mr Lavrov, whose arrival at Friday's meeting was met by shouts of "when will you stop the war" and "why don't you stop the war" as he was greeted by Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi.

Yeah, the Russian government is real popular in the world. Fucking youtube told me so. :rolleyes:
 

Jayjay

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Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:
People on youtube did the math and concluded - it's laughable.
It's not enough, but it's a start.

The RUSI report identified lack of training as key problem with Ukrainian army, without which it doesn't have a hope of conducting counter-attacks. Russia maybe proceeding slowly, but Ukraine doesn't seem to have any proven ability to do offensive ground operations.

From the link:
For Ukraine’s international partners, enabling Ukraine to shift on to the offensive to retake its
lost territories requires three lines of effort. First, there is a need to deliver infantry training
to newly raised Ukrainian units at scale. Second, there is a need to deliver staff training at
the brigade and divisional level to help expand the scale at which Ukraine can orchestrate
operations. (...)
(The third line is mobility platform, but training is probably more critical, although time-consuming.)
 

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No, it wasn't.
Yes it was and more importantly IS. And your own damn link says so.
No, my own damn link doesn't say so. 70% of the residents in Eastern Ukraine polled in 2014 wanted to stay in Ukraine. Only 18% (and 27% Russian speakers) wanted to secede. You could make a case that Crimea wanted to be part of Ukraine (although it doesn't justify an invasion by a foreign country), but Eastern Ukraine was pure FSB operation and had very little popular support, because even out of those 14% that may have supported secession, not all would support Russians doing it without asking the people first.

And no, what people think now is not more important. Over a million people, i.e. most who don't support Russia, have fled Donbas. And the remaining people have been fed bullshit propaganda for past eight years. Current opinion can't be used to justify an invasion in 2014.

Otherwise, why not let Ukraine have Donbas, wait 8 years, and then ask the people living there again what they think?
 

Jayjay

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70% of the local people said they wanted to stay with Ukraine. Sure, they weren't happy with the government in Kyiv
Well, after being bombed for 8 years they are no longer that optimistic about Kyiv "government"
Most of the active battles happened in 2014 and 2015, and after that the civilian casualties have diminished:

G-4.png

More people in DNR/LNR died of car accidents last year than Ukrainian shelling. And this number counts casualties from both sides.

The fact is, that at least up to 2019, most people in the occupied "people's republics" still would have preferred to be part of Ukraine than Russia.
 

Jayjay

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People on youtube did the math and concluded
Mate, people on YouTube did the math and concluded that the pyramids were built by aliens, that Queen Elizabeth II is a lizard in disguise, and that JFK was shot by Elvis.
Ukraine is losing 1000 soldiers a day, UK needs to train at least that much.
And these "soldiers" UK proposing to train are useless anyway. What Ukraine needs are soldiers which can operate artillery and other sophisticated equipment and you are not going to train them in 3 months.
True, but it looks like this war will last longer than 3 months. And artillery isn't everything, especially because Ukraine doesn't have as many artillery pieces as Russia. What's needed is better coordination and faster mobility so the troops can get in after the artillery has done its job. Ukraine has an advantage in man power (at least until Russia mobilizes), and training is needed to leverage that.

Ukraine is losing 1000 soldiers a day only in Russian propaganda. The real figure is probably around 100.
 

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Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:
People on youtube did the math and concluded - it's laughable.
People on Youtube said Hillary Clinton was operating a child sex trafficking ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor that had no basement.
 

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Can we trust John Pilger? I would say do so at your own peril.
Why?

John Pilger never tried to mislead, let alone tell outright lies. In his long career as journalist and commentators he always reported things as he saw them. The problem is that he is an octogenarian now and still feels the need to say meaningful stuff. It has not occurred to him that he has run out of steam. Hence this eight minutes worth of waffle.
 

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Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:
People on youtube did the math and concluded - it's laughable.
People on Youtube said Hillary Clinton was operating a child sex trafficking ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor that had no basement.
You wouldn't believe what else youtube says



:Barbos.png



No more, I promise.
 

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On Friday, the Pentagon pledged four more of the Lockheed Martin systems, which would bring Ukraine’s total to an even dozen. The HIMARS are part of a $400 million package of arms and ammunition that includes 1,000 rounds of 155 mm artillery shells, which are said to have greater precision.

Despite the small number of HIMARS in the battle, they are having an outsize impact, according to Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov. “HIMARS have already made a HUUUGE difference on the battlefield,” Reznikov tweeted over the weekend. “More of them as well as [US] ammo & equipment will increase our strength and help to demilitarize the terrorist state.”

In recent weeks, Ukrainian forces have used the deadly-accurate HIMARS system to target Russian ammunition depots, destroying as many as 20, according to media reports from Kyiv and social media posts.
 

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Remember when Barbos said Russia had the support of the vast majority of the world to invade Unkraine. Turns out he was wrong:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has walked out of talks during the G20 meeting, denouncing the West for "frenzied criticism," and squandering a chance to tackle global economic problems.

Held on the Indonesian island of Bali, the forum was the first face-to-face meeting between Russia and the fiercest critics of its war in Ukraine.

The spotlight was firmly on Mr Lavrov, whose arrival at Friday's meeting was met by shouts of "when will you stop the war" and "why don't you stop the war" as he was greeted by Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi.

Yeah, the Russian government is real popular in the world. Fucking youtube told me so. :rolleyes:
Lol! You forgot to read barbos’ Bible:
The Comments Section.
 

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On Friday, the Pentagon pledged four more of the Lockheed Martin systems, which would bring Ukraine’s total to an even dozen. The HIMARS are part of a $400 million package of arms and ammunition that includes 1,000 rounds of 155 mm artillery shells, which are said to have greater precision.

Despite the small number of HIMARS in the battle, they are having an outsize impact, according to Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov. “HIMARS have already made a HUUUGE difference on the battlefield,” Reznikov tweeted over the weekend. “More of them as well as [US] ammo & equipment will increase our strength and help to demilitarize the terrorist state.”

In recent weeks, Ukrainian forces have used the deadly-accurate HIMARS system to target Russian ammunition depots, destroying as many as 20, according to media reports from Kyiv and social media posts.
Like I said before, Russia can counter the HIMARS to some degree by decentralizing its ammunition and fuel depots. Which is actually what Ukraine has done already earlier. I think we'll see in a week or latest in two, if Russia is able to resume their operations or not. Ukraine hasn't yet been able to translate this into actual territorial gains, and Ukraine is pretty exhausted too after losing Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.

Even if Russia can fix its ammunition depot problem, Ukraine will continue to have the ability to strike any stationary target within about 75km from the front line. So if there are no big enough ammo dumps, they can hit bridges, railroads, and buildings. HIMARS are definitely a game changer, but I don't think it's enough all by itself.
 

Tigers!

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Can we trust John Pilger? I would say do so at your own peril.
Why?

John Pilger never tried to mislead, let alone tell outright lies. In his long career as journalist and commentators he always reported things as he saw them. The problem is that he is an octogenarian now and still feels the need to say meaningful stuff. It has not occurred to him that he has run out of steam. Hence this eight minutes worth of waffle.
In the early 80s Pilger made claims about how he exposed the truth about Pol Pot but he suppressed his sources and took credit for what he did not find out. He was and is a shameless plagiariser. There was a public meeting Melbourne, Australia where he was showing his latest alleged expose of Pol Pot. It descended into a farce and almost a riot when Pilger was challenged by some the audience as to his accuracy and veracity. It was a good night to be there.

Pilger is, was and always will be a shameless liar and relentless self promoter. But you are right that he has run out of steam. Trouble is he ran out of steam in the late 70s.
 

Hermit

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In the early 80s Pilger made claims about how he exposed the truth about Pol Pot but he suppressed his sources and took credit for what he did not find out. He was and is a shameless plagiariser. There was a public meeting Melbourne, Australia where he was showing his latest alleged expose of Pol Pot. It descended into a farce and almost a riot when Pilger was challenged by some the audience as to his accuracy and veracity. It was a good night to be there.

Pilger is, was and always will be a shameless liar...
Links, please.

... he ran out of steam in the late 70s.
Having watched Utopia (2013) and The Coming War on China (2016), I think he was still going strong until fairly recently. My main objection to Pilger's reportage is that his loathing of the USA - which is justified - leads him to paper over the serious problems concerning Russia, China, the Palestinians and others - which is definitely not. Following the idiotic adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" causes repeated serious errors of judgement.
 

Tigers!

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In the early 80s Pilger made claims about how he exposed the truth about Pol Pot but he suppressed his sources and took credit for what he did not find out. He was and is a shameless plagiariser. There was a public meeting Melbourne, Australia where he was showing his latest alleged expose of Pol Pot. It descended into a farce and almost a riot when Pilger was challenged by some the audience as to his accuracy and veracity. It was a good night to be there.

Pilger is, was and always will be a shameless liar...
Links, please.

... he ran out of steam in the late 70s.
Having watched Utopia (2013) and The Coming War on China (2016), I think he was still going strong until fairly recently. My main objection to Pilger's reportage is that his loathing of the USA - which is justified - leads him to paper over the serious problems concerning Russia, China, the Palestinians and others - which is definitely not. Following the idiotic adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" causes repeated serious errors of judgement.
If you want a link to a report about a public screening that the police attended in very early 1980s that barely rated a mention in the local rag? Occurred in inner Melbourne at one of the town halls (Collingwood, Fitzroy etc.?) in 1981 or 1982. ~40 years ago. Might be a wee bit difficult.
 

Hermit

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In the early 80s Pilger made claims about how he exposed the truth about Pol Pot but he suppressed his sources and took credit for what he did not find out. He was and is a shameless plagiariser. There was a public meeting Melbourne, Australia where he was showing his latest alleged expose of Pol Pot. It descended into a farce and almost a riot when Pilger was challenged by some the audience as to his accuracy and veracity. It was a good night to be there.

Pilger is, was and always will be a shameless liar...
Links, please.

... he ran out of steam in the late 70s.
Having watched Utopia (2013) and The Coming War on China (2016), I think he was still going strong until fairly recently. My main objection to Pilger's reportage is that his loathing of the USA - which is justified - leads him to paper over the serious problems concerning Russia, China, the Palestinians and others - which is definitely not. Following the idiotic adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" causes repeated serious errors of judgement.
If you want a link to a report about a public screening that the police attended in very early 1980s that barely rated a mention in the local rag? Occurred in inner Melbourne at one of the town halls (Collingwood, Fitzroy etc.?) in 1981 or 1982. ~40 years ago. Might be a wee bit difficult.
OK, so ~40 years ago there allegedly was a ruckus at a public screening when Pilger was "challenged by some the audience as to his accuracy and veracity". Someone, presumably not you, alleged that "he suppressed his sources and took credit for what he did not find out". It barely rated a mention in the local rag, and no mention of it can be found anywhere else. Based on that alleged incident you conclude that Pilger "was and is a shameless plagiariser" and "was and always will be a shameless liar and relentless self promoter".

:LD:
 

Jayjay

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The Russian Duma, a rubber stamp for whatever Putin wants to do next, has been called from its summer recess to a special session on July 15th. Some major announcement is going to happen.

Declaration of war? Acceptance of Donbas or other occupied territory to Russia? Authorization to use nukes?
 

TV and credit cards

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Kazakhstan flexes while Germany and Canada quiver.
Well it makes sense. Who's most threatened by Russian aggression? The Baltics, Poland, Finland, Kazakhstan; seems those closet, those most threatened by Russian aggression are the ones most will to stand up to it. Those threatened with the political discomfort of economic difficulties are the most timid.
 

Harry Bosch

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Kazakhstan flexes while Germany and Canada quiver.
Well it makes sense. Who's most threatened by Russian aggression? The Baltics, Poland, Finland, Kazakhstan; seems those closet, those most threatened by Russian aggression are the ones most will to stand up to it. Those threatened with the political discomfort of economic difficulties are the most timid.
Totally agree. I haven't researched why Canada is giving in. But clearly Germany is subservient to Russia. They never should have trusted Russia as their only source of gas. Insane.
 

ZiprHead

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Those HIMARS appear to be paying off.



Click on it for full view.
 

ZiprHead

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Another problem for the Russians.

 
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