How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Copernicus]

Since the population of Ukarainia is 0, I finally find something that barbos said to be credible.

Aren’t those the people who play Ukaleles?

That was how I initially read his post, but I don't think that there are any good polls of ukalele players to corroborate his claim. So I figured that it was probably the legendary pro-Russia nation of Ukarainia that he was talking about. No Nazis there, either.

 

[Jayjay]

Except that my statement was factually correct, yours is just a baseless taunt.

No, Mine was correct, yours is baseless CNN garbage.

I provided evidence for my claim. You didn't.

There is plenty of evidence that the separatist leaders were installed by FSB.

It proves nothing, In fact, that would be dereliction of duty if FSB was NOT involved.

So you admit that the fake "people's republics" were installed by FSB. What are we even arguing about?

Having said that, anti-maidan revolt in Eastern Ukraine was and is real and popular.

No, it wasn't. In polls conducted right after Russian agents started storming government buildings in Donbas, 70% of the local people said they wanted to stay with Ukraine. Sure, they weren't happy with the government in Kyiv, but that isn't a permission slip for Kremlin to send terrorists to take over.

Even in polls conducted in 2016 and 2019, after most pro-Ukrainians had left, and the remaining people had been brainwashed with Russian propaganda, the majority wanted reunification with Ukraine (65% and 55% respectively). The proportion of people in the Ukrainian controlled territories (which Russia has now mostly taken by force) who wanted Donbas to secede from Ukraine or join Russia, was in low single digits, so they definitely didn't ask for the invasion.

And there is plenty of evidence that CIA and state department were behind maidan itself. I mean, they admitted the whole damn thing. Same thing with Georgia and all the other color revolution crap - all paid by US taxpayers.
So.....

Conspiracy theorist nonsense made up by Russian propaganda. The CIA and state department weren't behind Maidan, and you haven't given any actual evidence to support that claim. Even the leaked phone call from early 2014 ("Fuck Europe") shows that USA was not in charge; the plan they discussed in the call didn't happen.

Show us where CIA or DOS "admitted the whole damn thing", and we'll continue. So far all you've done is regurgitate the same tired old propaganda you got straight from Putin's ass.

 

[Elixir]

So far all you've done is regurgitate the same tired old propaganda you got straight from Putin's ass.

To his credit, he has also managed to articulate his deepest thoughts:
“I know you are, but what am I?”

 

[Jayjay]

The Royal United Services Institute published an interesting analysis yesterday about Ukraine's and Russia's capabilities, and how the west should best help the former:

https://static.rusi.org/special-report-202207-ukraine-final-web.pdf

I highly recommend reading it, or at least the summary.

Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace visits Armed Forces of Ukraine as training programme starts across the UK

The first cohort of Ukrainian soldiers taking part in a major new UK-led military programme, which will train up to 10,000 Ukrainians over the coming months, have arrived in the UK.

www.gov.uk

Around 1,050 UK service personnel are deploying to run the programme, which will take place at MOD sites across the North West, South West and South East of the UK. Each course will last several weeks and will be conducted by elements from 11 Security Force Assistance Brigade.

The training will give volunteer recruits with little to no military experience the skills to be effective in frontline combat. Based on the UK’s basic soldier training, the course covers weapons handling, battlefield first aid, fieldcraft, patrol tactics and the Law of Armed Conflict.

(...)

The UK has a long history of supporting Ukrainian service personnel through Operation ORBITAL, which trained 22,000 Ukrainians between 2015 and 2022. The new programme will build on this success and demonstrate the UK’s continued leadership in responding to Ukraine’s military requirements as the war evolves.

So maybe my earlier skepticism about NATO building up offensive-capable troops from the ground up was unwarranted. It will take a while before this takes effect though.

 

[barbos]

Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:

People on youtube did the math and concluded - it's laughable.

 

[barbos]

No, it wasn't.

Yes it was and more importantly IS. And your own damn link says so.

 

[barbos]

70% of the local people said they wanted to stay with Ukraine. Sure, they weren't happy with the government in Kyiv

Well, after being bombed for 8 years they are no longer that optimistic about Kyiv "government"

 

[bilby]

People on youtube did the math and concluded

Mate, people on YouTube did the math and concluded that the pyramids were built by aliens, that Queen Elizabeth II is a lizard in disguise, and that JFK was shot by Elvis.

 

[barbos]

People on youtube did the math and concluded

Mate, people on YouTube did the math and concluded that the pyramids were built by aliens, that Queen Elizabeth II is a lizard in disguise, and that JFK was shot by Elvis.

Ukraine is losing 1000 soldiers a day, UK needs to train at least that much.
And these "soldiers" UK proposing to train are useless anyway. What Ukraine needs are soldiers which can operate artillery and other sophisticated equipment and you are not going to train them in 3 months.

 

[Tigers!]

People on youtube did the math and concluded

Mate, people on YouTube did the math and concluded that the pyramids were built by aliens, that Queen Elizabeth II is a lizard in disguise, and that JFK was shot by Elvis.

Ukraine is losing 1000 soldiers a day, UK needs to train at least that much.
And these "soldiers" UK proposing to train are useless anyway. What Ukraine needs are soldiers which can operate artillery and other sophisticated equipment and you are not going to train them in 3 months.

Can we trust John Pilger? I would say do so at your own peril.

 

[Patooka]

Remember when Barbos said Russia had the support of the vast majority of the world to invade Unkraine. Turns out he was wrong:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has walked out of talks during the G20 meeting, denouncing the West for "frenzied criticism," and squandering a chance to tackle global economic problems.

Held on the Indonesian island of Bali, the forum was the first face-to-face meeting between Russia and the fiercest critics of its war in Ukraine.

The spotlight was firmly on Mr Lavrov, whose arrival at Friday's meeting was met by shouts of "when will you stop the war" and "why don't you stop the war" as he was greeted by Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi.

Yeah, the Russian government is real popular in the world. Fucking youtube told me so.

 

[Jayjay]

Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:

People on youtube did the math and concluded - it's laughable.

It's not enough, but it's a start.

The RUSI report identified lack of training as key problem with Ukrainian army, without which it doesn't have a hope of conducting counter-attacks. Russia maybe proceeding slowly, but Ukraine doesn't seem to have any proven ability to do offensive ground operations.

From the link:

For Ukraine’s international partners, enabling Ukraine to shift on to the offensive to retake its
lost territories requires three lines of effort. First, there is a need to deliver infantry training
to newly raised Ukrainian units at scale. Second, there is a need to deliver staff training at
the brigade and divisional level to help expand the scale at which Ukraine can orchestrate
operations. (...)

(The third line is mobility platform, but training is probably more critical, although time-consuming.)

 

[Jayjay]

No, it wasn't.

Yes it was and more importantly IS. And your own damn link says so.

No, my own damn link doesn't say so. 70% of the residents in Eastern Ukraine polled in 2014 wanted to stay in Ukraine. Only 18% (and 27% Russian speakers) wanted to secede. You could make a case that Crimea wanted to be part of Ukraine (although it doesn't justify an invasion by a foreign country), but Eastern Ukraine was pure FSB operation and had very little popular support, because even out of those 14% that may have supported secession, not all would support Russians doing it without asking the people first.

And no, what people think now is not more important. Over a million people, i.e. most who don't support Russia, have fled Donbas. And the remaining people have been fed bullshit propaganda for past eight years. Current opinion can't be used to justify an invasion in 2014.

Otherwise, why not let Ukraine have Donbas, wait 8 years, and then ask the people living there again what they think?

 

[Jayjay]

70% of the local people said they wanted to stay with Ukraine. Sure, they weren't happy with the government in Kyiv

Well, after being bombed for 8 years they are no longer that optimistic about Kyiv "government"

Most of the active battles happened in 2014 and 2015, and after that the civilian casualties have diminished:

More people in DNR/LNR died of car accidents last year than Ukrainian shelling. And this number counts casualties from both sides.

The fact is, that at least up to 2019, most people in the occupied "people's republics" still would have preferred to be part of Ukraine than Russia.

 

[Jayjay]

People on youtube did the math and concluded

Mate, people on YouTube did the math and concluded that the pyramids were built by aliens, that Queen Elizabeth II is a lizard in disguise, and that JFK was shot by Elvis.

Ukraine is losing 1000 soldiers a day, UK needs to train at least that much.
And these "soldiers" UK proposing to train are useless anyway. What Ukraine needs are soldiers which can operate artillery and other sophisticated equipment and you are not going to train them in 3 months.

True, but it looks like this war will last longer than 3 months. And artillery isn't everything, especially because Ukraine doesn't have as many artillery pieces as Russia. What's needed is better coordination and faster mobility so the troops can get in after the artillery has done its job. Ukraine has an advantage in man power (at least until Russia mobilizes), and training is needed to leverage that.

Ukraine is losing 1000 soldiers a day only in Russian propaganda. The real figure is probably around 100.

 

[ZiprHead]

Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:

People on youtube did the math and concluded - it's laughable.

People on Youtube said Hillary Clinton was operating a child sex trafficking ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor that had no basement.

 

[Hermit]

Can we trust John Pilger? I would say do so at your own peril.

Why?

John Pilger never tried to mislead, let alone tell outright lies. In his long career as journalist and commentators he always reported things as he saw them. The problem is that he is an octogenarian now and still feels the need to say meaningful stuff. It has not occurred to him that he has run out of steam. Hence this eight minutes worth of waffle.

 

[Patooka]

Looks like UK government took the hint and has now started to train up to 10,000 Ukrainian troops in UK:

People on youtube did the math and concluded - it's laughable.

People on Youtube said Hillary Clinton was operating a child sex trafficking ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor that had no basement.

You wouldn't believe what else youtube says

Show

:

No more, I promise.

 

[ZiprHead]

MSN

On Friday, the Pentagon pledged four more of the Lockheed Martin systems, which would bring Ukraine’s total to an even dozen. The HIMARS are part of a $400 million package of arms and ammunition that includes 1,000 rounds of 155 mm artillery shells, which are said to have greater precision.

Despite the small number of HIMARS in the battle, they are having an outsize impact, according to Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov. “HIMARS have already made a HUUUGE difference on the battlefield,” Reznikov tweeted over the weekend. “More of them as well as [US] ammo & equipment will increase our strength and help to demilitarize the terrorist state.”

In recent weeks, Ukrainian forces have used the deadly-accurate HIMARS system to target Russian ammunition depots, destroying as many as 20, according to media reports from Kyiv and social media posts.

 

[Elixir]

Remember when Barbos said Russia had the support of the vast majority of the world to invade Unkraine. Turns out he was wrong:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has walked out of talks during the G20 meeting, denouncing the West for "frenzied criticism," and squandering a chance to tackle global economic problems.

Held on the Indonesian island of Bali, the forum was the first face-to-face meeting between Russia and the fiercest critics of its war in Ukraine.

The spotlight was firmly on Mr Lavrov, whose arrival at Friday's meeting was met by shouts of "when will you stop the war" and "why don't you stop the war" as he was greeted by Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi.

Yeah, the Russian government is real popular in the world. Fucking youtube told me so.

Lol! You forgot to read barbos’ Bible:
The Comments Section.