How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Harry Bosch]

I’m

We’re trying to help a country defend their homes.

I heard you the first million times. I can even accept (with difficulty) that you are dumb enough to believe that.
I mean, do you believe Iraq war was well justified? Vietnam? it's yes/no question.

No. I don’t think we should have invaded Iraq. Vietnam is a different story. It was a civil war. We liked the losing side. In hind site, was not a great decision.

It was a yes/no guestion and I presume both to be "No" even though you appear reserved in case of Vietnam.
OK, both No. I suppose if I ask few more such questions and answers will be No too.

So what makes you so sure that this time (Ukraine) you are right? And not merely right but unquestionably right?

Here’s the Test: are Russian soldiers in Ukraine, fighting Ukrainians? Yes or No? If yes, Russians are Imperialists.

Russians fought in Germany too.
So your test is shit.

Here is a better test, Did Ukrainian President and the whole Canadian Parliament applauded to a WW2 nazi? Yes or No?

Canadians are ...... ignorant imbeciles and have no right to lecture russians. Yes, 140 millions russians don't give a flying fuck about what canadians think about the Ukraine issues. And it can be extended to the whole western world. You are nothing to us!
Zelensky applauded to a WW2 nazi and did not explain himself, that alone justifies rolling over Ukraine.

Well I’ll tell you what! I’m going to immediately draft a very stern letter to those Canadian rascals to implore them to please stop being so mean to all those Russians!

 

[barbos]

Well I’ll tell you what! I’m going to immediately draft a very stern letter to those Canadian rascals to implore them to please stop being so mean to all those Russians!

Is that supposed to be funny?
Again, do you understand that russians hate you? and have very good reasons for that?
You behave like an asshole. You lost an argument, twice. And instead of admitting it, you are trying to joke it away.
Does not help you.

 

[barbos]

So, Russians don't care about imbeciles/canadians. And they don't care about "ukrainians".
Because (thanks to youtube) we see them everyday, and that's not a pretty picture, does not help them at all.
Gives Putin more and more support where it matters - in his own country.

 

[TomC]

, Russians don't care about imbeciles/canadians.

You, and only you, keep bringing him up.

Because (thanks to youtube) we see them everyday, and that's not a pretty picture, does not help them at all.

Probably because only Russians care about it.

Gives Putin more and more support where it matters - in his own country.

That's probably why you "see them everyday". Because Putin thinks it matters. Nobody else does. He's not in government, he's not an internet pundit, he's a nobody.
Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well I’ll tell you what! I’m going to immediately draft a very stern letter to those Canadian rascals to implore them to please stop being so mean to all those Russians!

Is that supposed to be funny?
Again, do you understand that russians hate you? and have very good reasons for that?
You behave like an asshole. You lost an argument, twice. And instead of admitting it, you are trying to joke it away.
Does not help you.

Oh come on! That was funny! Look, I’m sorry but there are some Nazis in the west. A very small percentage, but there are some. And yea, we have some people who don’t always say the right thing all the time. But if your side is going to hate the west and go to war over this I can’t help you.

 

[lpetrich]

Ukraine in maps: Tracking the war with Russia - 20 December 2023 - BBC

It is almost two years since Russia's invasion but the situation on the ground has changed little in recent months - despite Ukraine's counter-offensive, which began in June.

Here are the latest developments:

• Ukrainian forces have continued ground operations on the eastern bank of the Dnipro River - a foothold that could allow it to transfer vital equipment across the river
• Russian forces in the east have made confirmed advances north east of Kupiansk, north of Bakhmut, and south west of Avdiivka
• Russian forces have also advanced near Robotyne, a southern village that was retaken by Ukraine early in its counter-offensive

Ukraine has continued ground operations on the eastern bank of the Dnipro River with heavy battles reported to be ongoing in the area around the village of Krynky, about 30km (19 miles) from the city of Kherson.

 

[lpetrich]

War Mapper (@War_Mapper) / X

Ukraine, Myanmar, Sudan, Israel/Palestine, the Red Sea, ...

 

[barbos]

Well I’ll tell you what! I’m going to immediately draft a very stern letter to those Canadian rascals to implore them to please stop being so mean to all those Russians!

Is that supposed to be funny?
Again, do you understand that russians hate you? and have very good reasons for that?
You behave like an asshole. You lost an argument, twice. And instead of admitting it, you are trying to joke it away.
Does not help you.

Oh come on! That was funny! Look, I’m sorry but there are some Nazis in the west. A very small percentage, but there are some. And yea, we have some people who don’t always say the right thing all the time. But if your side is going to hate the west and go to war over this I can’t help you.

You are knowingly supporting nazis in order to solve your Russia Problem. Nobody in Russia finds that funny.

 

[ZiprHead]

You are knowingly supporting nazis in order to solve your Russia Problem. Nobody in Russia finds that funny.

cough Wagner Group cough cough...

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

My, how careless.

No worries, when americans come, they will fix everything, just ask East Palestine residents.

This was an explosion of a missile designed to deliver nuclear warheads. After seeing a few videos of Russian rockets aimed at Ukraine misfire, I would be very nervous if I was a Russian missile technician who was ordered to launch a nuclear missile.

Well I’ll tell you what! I’m going to immediately draft a very stern letter to those Canadian rascals to implore them to please stop being so mean to all those Russians!

Is that supposed to be funny?
Again, do you understand that russians hate you? and have very good reasons for that?
You behave like an asshole. You lost an argument, twice. And instead of admitting it, you are trying to joke it away.
Does not help you.

Lets us remember Hitler and Stalin signed a pact with each other and then divided Poland between themselves. Russia played footsie with their buddy Hitler.

 

[barbos]

My, how careless.

No worries, when americans come, they will fix everything, just ask East Palestine residents.

This was an explosion of a missile designed to deliver nuclear warheads. After seeing a few videos of Russian rockets aimed at Ukraine misfire, I would be very nervous if I was a Russian missile technician who was ordered to launch a nuclear missile.

You should be very nervous living near railroad.

Well I’ll tell you what! I’m going to immediately draft a very stern letter to those Canadian rascals to implore them to please stop being so mean to all those Russians!

Is that supposed to be funny?
Again, do you understand that russians hate you? and have very good reasons for that?
You behave like an asshole. You lost an argument, twice. And instead of admitting it, you are trying to joke it away.
Does not help you.

Lets us remember Hitler and Stalin signed a pact with each other and then divided Poland between themselves. Russia played footsie with their buddy Hitler.

Britain signed pact with Hitler too and Poland as well. Signing pacts was very popular back then.

 

[barbos]

You are knowingly supporting nazis in order to solve your Russia Problem. Nobody in Russia finds that funny.

cough Wagner Group cough cough...

Are you OK? See a doctor.

 

[Elixir]

Britain signed pact with Hitler too

Oh. So okay, you are in a Nazi country.
We already knew that.
Wagner group is just a typical Russian outfit.

 

[bilby]

My, how careless.

No worries, when americans come, they will fix everything, just ask East Palestine residents.

This was an explosion of a missile designed to deliver nuclear warheads. After seeing a few videos of Russian rockets aimed at Ukraine misfire, I would be very nervous if I was a Russian missile technician who was ordered to launch a nuclear missile.

You should be very nervous living near railroad.

Well I’ll tell you what! I’m going to immediately draft a very stern letter to those Canadian rascals to implore them to please stop being so mean to all those Russians!

Is that supposed to be funny?
Again, do you understand that russians hate you? and have very good reasons for that?
You behave like an asshole. You lost an argument, twice. And instead of admitting it, you are trying to joke it away.
Does not help you.

Lets us remember Hitler and Stalin signed a pact with each other and then divided Poland between themselves. Russia played footsie with their buddy Hitler.

Britain signed pact with Hitler too and Poland as well. Signing pacts was very popular back then.

Yes, because it was still the age of imperialism.

Russia apparently didn't get the memo, but imperialism has been over for fifty years. Imperial possessions demanded independence after WWII, and if they didn't get it by agreement, they took it by force. Look at what happened to France in Indochina.

Imperialism's death became inevitable over a century ago, when Austria-Hungary failed to quell the Serbian unrest caused by her annexation of Bosnia. It was shown to be a stupid and dangerous idea that could harm the wannabe empire more than it harmed their victims even before the collapse of the Russian empire, and the forming of the USSR from the wreckage.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine harks back to a political reality that's a century out of date, and has already done massive harm to Russia - while utterly failing to subdue, much less conquer, Ukraine.

It would have been easier, cheaper, and probably quicker, for Russia to purchase Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk by purely diplomatic means, including a vote amongst the people living in the region, and payment of a large cash sum to Kyiv.

If you want something you can't afford right now, you can work hard, scrimp and save, until you can get it legitimately, and then feel pride in your success; Or you can attempt to take it by criminal force, and find yourself banned from ever again entering the store that sells it.

Now that the Russian government have tried to do things the wrong way, they've fucked themselves for generations. Stupidity, greed, and an inflated idea of Russian military power has left Putin isolated, and looking both impotent and foolish on the international stage.

None of it was necessary; Even if Donetsk and Luhansk had remained Ukrainian, after Kyiv declined to sell them, or the people there decided to stay a part of Ukraine, access to Crimea across Ukraine would have been easy and largely unobstructed.

But Putin had to swing his dick and demonstrate Russian might to anyone who might not give him anything he demanded - and in the process, he has made a spectacular pratfall, and made Russia a laughingstock.

Why you still support this clown in his ongoing effort to belittle and ridicule your country in the eyes of the world is a mystery.

Yes, I am wasting my breath here, as this post will just prompt another "I'm rubber, you're glue" level of strategic analysis, worthy of an eight year old boy who has been caught bullying his younger sister.

 

[lpetrich]

 Suspicious deaths of Russian businesspeople (2022–2024) - they continue, with the most recent one being on Jan 5 of this year.

That article links to some similar ones, like  List of journalists killed in Russia and  Russian military commissariats attacks and  Russian mystery fires (2022–present)

 

[barbos]

Yes, because it was still the age of imperialism.

Dude, Poles and GB had a pact with Hitler before Stalin.
So go and harp at them too.

 

[barbos]

The Russian invasion of Ukraine harks back to a political reality that's a century out of date,

No, it's not. NATO invaded Ukraine over russian objections and now Ukraine will be part of Russia, the end.

 

[barbos]

Failed NATO attack on russian ships in Black Sea.

ВС РФ предотвратили атаку на гражданские суда в Черном море - Газета.Ru | Новости

Минобороны России сообщило, что вечером 9 февраля украинские войска пытались атаковать российские гражданские транспортные суда в юго-западном районе Черного моря.

www.gazeta.ru

 

[bilby]

Yes, because it was still the age of imperialism.

Dude, Poles and GB had a pact with Hitler before Stalin.
So go and harp at them too.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

You used to be able to at least produce relevant responses to people's posts; But now you just take the least significant part of what they say, and add an utterly irrelevant snippet of nonsense that, if you squint, might look a little bit like a rebuttal of something they might have said, but didn't.

My entire point was that the way Putin is acting today is a century out of date. Imperialism was normal before WWI, it was still being attempted before WWII, but it's now recognised as a stupid and disastrous mode of international relations, that any sane leader would avoid like the plague, because it ultimately leads to World Wars.

If the UK or Poland were to invade and attempt to annex a neighbouring country, you can bet your boots I would harp at them. But they aren't doing that. Russia is. And it's incredibly stupid and dangerous.

It would have been stupid and dangerous even if Russia had been sufficiently powerful militarily to pull it off. It is even more stupid, and even more dangerous, now that Russia has demonstrated her weakness and incompetence.

Fuck off home. Leave Ukraine. Take your armed forces back to their bases in Russia, and keep them there. This would be the best possible outcome right now for Russia, as well as for Ukraine and for the rest of the world.

It would probably be personally disastrous for Vlad Putin, but why the fuck should you, or anyone else, give shit the first about that arsehole?

 

[barbos]

You used to be able to at least produce relevant responses to people's posts;

Man, your whole post was utterly irrelevant and I simply repeated the start of mini-discussion.