How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

No. It's a well established fact. NATO could have just as easily said those S-300 that landed in Poland came from Russian launchers, and therefore initiating article 5.

Biullshit. NATO (really US) wants proxy war with Russia, not nuclear war.

False.

Nope. That's just a fact. NATO does not need any actual justification for their agressions all around the world. Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya. Syria. They can make any excuse required. The only thing that prevents NATO invasion of Russia are nukes.

 

[barbos]

Russia views treaties as toilet paper

Nope, It's US and the West. Merkel admitted as much.
She literally did what Hitler did before her.

 

[aupmanyav]

Russian troops won’t go home unless they are forced to go home - mostly in boxes.

Funny. You are not fighting the war but you want Ukrainians to do that. You won't like cessation of hostilities.

 

[aupmanyav]

Understanding that seems to be beyond the ken of Putinistas.

You are wrongly branding me because my views are different from yours.

 

[aupmanyav]

Then you better keep digging.

I have already dug deep and found my answers.

 

[Elixir]

Understanding that seems to be beyond the ken of Putinistas.

You are wrongly branding me because my views are different from yours.

I am correctly describing you because of your propaganda-soaked, misguided notion that it would be good to let Putin take Ukraine by force, in violation of their agreed upon sovereignty. (Treaty of 1999)

I’m not branding you whatsoever. In fact I had no idea that your “brand” of delusion flourished in India, and continue to doubt that it has become normalized.

 

[aupmanyav]

Are you saying it didn't happen?
Or are you saying that Putin's apparently genocidal behavior in Ukraine isn't real?
Or are you saying that if they give up he will quit his attempts at genocide?

"Some historians conclude that the famine was deliberately engineered by Joseph Stalin to eliminate a Ukrainian independence movement. Others suggest that the famine was primarily the consequence of rapid Soviet industrialisation and collectivization of agriculture. A middle position, held for example by historian Andrea Graziosi, is that the initial causes of the famine were an unintentional byproduct of the process of collectivization but once it set in, starvation was selectively weaponized and the famine was "instrumentalized" and amplified against Ukrainians to punish them for their rejection of the "new serfdom" and to break their nationalism."

Holodomor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I do not think Putin cares about Ukrainian loss of life. His aim is to punish Ukraine for siding with West and bring NATO in. He is subscribed to that and will not quit. That is why he has met Xi and Kim Jong.

 

[Elixir]

Russian troops won’t go home unless they are forced to go home - mostly in boxes.

Funny. You are not fighting the war but you want Ukrainians to do that.

That’s kinda traditional. People defend their own homelands.
But when Putin gets around to attacking Poland or another NATO country, we will be happy to squash him like a bug.

You won't like cessation of hostilities.

I will be delighted when Russians go back to Russia and stop their genocide campaign. It’s just a question of how many of them will die first.

 

[aupmanyav]

What Russian concerns? Russia is 100% of the problem. If we didn't Ukraine would have lost already. So you're clearly wrong. Forced? Who's forcing them?

You are welcome to your (one-sided) views.
NATO and its acolytes. Some one gave a long list of countries which are supplying arms to Ukraine, and and even longer list of what arms they are supplying.

 

[Elixir]

I do not think Putin cares about Ukrainian loss of life.

Or Russian loss of life or any life but his own.

His aim is to punish Ukraine for siding with West and bring NATO in. He is subscribed to that and will not quit. That is why he has met Xi and Kim Jong.

Which is another reason for America to ally against him; we historically oppose dictatorship.
You don’t mind it, which is your choice.
But it is not your option to tell America to abandon Countries that are asking for help in preventing a dictator from invading them, destroying their infrastructure and murdering all their citizens.

Stay tuned, Aupy; you may very well get your way if Donald Trump is put in charge of the world’s most powerful military.
The resulting coalition of despots will visit you with all the gifts of totalitarianism.
I’d suggest you start fortifying your own territory, since every dictator that exists will be eying your burgeoning population and converting them to currency in their minds.

 

[aupmanyav]

.. and therefore initiating article 5. They could have done the same for the numerous cyber attacks in Europe that explicitly came from Russia. Article 7 of the NATO accords states very clearly the supremacy of UN resolutions so Putin blockading Ukrainian grain could have also been a legitimate reason. That NATO has done none of this is proof that they are not the aggressor ..

If it is in their Charter then why they are not replying to S-300 falling in Poland? The reason is that they do not want to fight Russia themselves but want Ukraine to fight their war. Disgusting.

 

[ZiprHead]

Then you better keep digging.

I have already dug deep and found my answers.

Nope. Dig deeper.

 

[aupmanyav]

I am correctly describing you because of your propaganda-soaked, misguided notion that it would be good to let Putin take Ukraine by force, in violation of their agreed upon sovereignty. (Treaty of 1999)
I’m not branding you whatsoever. In fact I had no idea that your “brand” of delusion flourished in India, and continue to doubt that it has become normalized.

I have said earlier also that don't take my views as the views of government of India. I am a simple retired Hindu atheist. I have never said that it will be correct for Putin to occupy Ukraine. But it must be understood that war cannot end without peace talks, otherwise it may escalate to Allah knows what extent.

That’s kinda traditional. People defend their own homelands.
But when Putin gets around to attacking Poland or another NATO country, we will be happy to squash him like a bug.

Unfortunately, the war is not making Russia go back. Ukrainians are fighting a NATO war. I think Putin is more than a bug. Be careful.

Elixir said: "Or Russian loss of life or any life but his own."
Aup. says: In any war, it is the soldiers who die, not the generals, generally. We lost five soldiers in Ladakh a day before yesterday in a training when they were trying to ford a river in night and there was a sudden rise in water level. Unfortunate, but it happens, aircrafts crash in training, missiles go hay-wire (one of ours landed in Pakistan - we profusely apologized), etc.

Which is another reason for America to ally against him; we historically oppose dictatorship.
You don’t mind it, which is your choice.
But it is not your option to tell America to abandon Countries that are asking for help in preventing a dictator from invading them, destroying their infrastructure and murdering all their citizens.

Stay tuned, Aupy; you may very well get your way if Donald Trump is put in charge of the world’s most powerful military.
The resulting coalition of despots will visit you with all the gifts of totalitarianism.
I’d suggest you start fortifying your own territory, since every dictator that exists will be eying your burgeoning population and converting them to currency in their minds.

US has opposed democratic governments also. What happened with Allende or Nkrumah? I have a long memory. I can only mention my views. NATO will surely do what it wants.
I do not wish US a Trump. If the coalition visits us, we will give our best reply. We are trying our best to fortify our territory to the extent our finances and technology permit.

 

[aupmanyav]

Nope. Dig deeper.

I have no more questions. For what should I dig deeper?

 

[ZiprHead]

Nope. Dig deeper.

I have no more questions. For what should I dig deeper?

Reality.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You completely failed to address your point about entering into security alliances for protection.

Ukrainians completely failed to assess Russia's concerns about their relations with West and elected Poroshenko as their President in 2014. That is when the war started.

You completely fail to understand that Ukraine's relations with the west are not Russia's business.

Do you also think an abuser should beat his wife if she tries to leave?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You completely failed to address your point about entering into security alliances for protection.

Ukrainians completely failed to assess Russia's concerns about their relations with West and elected Poroshenko as their President in 2014. That is when the war started.

The, "look what you made me do" argument isn't as compelling as you'd think.

And it's the hallmark of the bully or the abuser.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

NATO was created to deter aggression.

There was no need for it after USSR disintegrated. US and Russia could have come to a better agreement on nuclear piles.

Russia remained a threat even though most people liked to pretend otherwise.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I am correctly describing you because of your propaganda-soaked, misguided notion that it would be good to let Putin take Ukraine by force, in violation of their agreed upon sovereignty. (Treaty of 1999)
I’m not branding you whatsoever. In fact I had no idea that your “brand” of delusion flourished in India, and continue to doubt that it has become normalized.

I have said earlier also that don't take my views as the views of government of India. I am a simple retired Hindu atheist. I have never said that it will be correct for Putin to occupy Ukraine. But it must be understood that war cannot end without peace talks, otherwise it may escalate to Allah knows what extent.

That’s kinda traditional. People defend their own homelands.
But when Putin gets around to attacking Poland or another NATO country, we will be happy to squash him like a bug.

Unfortunately, the war is not making Russia go back. Ukrainians are fighting a NATO war. I think Putin is more than a bug. Be careful.

Elixir said: "Or Russian loss of life or any life but his own."
Aup. says: In any war, it is the soldiers who die, not the generals, generally. We lost five soldiers in Ladakh a day before yesterday in a training when they were trying to ford a river in night and there was a sudden rise in water level. Unfortunate, but it happens, aircrafts crash in training, missiles go hay-wire (one of ours landed in Pakistan - we profusely apologized), etc.

Which is another reason for America to ally against him; we historically oppose dictatorship.
You don’t mind it, which is your choice.
But it is not your option to tell America to abandon Countries that are asking for help in preventing a dictator from invading them, destroying their infrastructure and murdering all their citizens.

Stay tuned, Aupy; you may very well get your way if Donald Trump is put in charge of the world’s most powerful military.
The resulting coalition of despots will visit you with all the gifts of totalitarianism.
I’d suggest you start fortifying your own territory, since every dictator that exists will be eying your burgeoning population and converting them to currency in their minds.

US has opposed democratic governments also. What happened with Allende or Nkrumah? I have a long memory. I can only mention my views. NATO will surely do what it wants.
I do not wish US a Trump. If the coalition visits us, we will give our best reply. We are trying our best to fortify our territory to the extent our finances and technology permit.

I am correctly describing you because of your propaganda-soaked, misguided notion that it would be good to let Putin take Ukraine by force, in violation of their agreed upon sovereignty. (Treaty of 1999)
I’m not branding you whatsoever. In fact I had no idea that your “brand” of delusion flourished in India, and continue to doubt that it has become normalized.

I have said earlier also that don't take my views as the views of government of India. I am a simple retired Hindu atheist. I have never said that it will be correct for Putin to occupy Ukraine. But it must be understood that war cannot end without peace talks, otherwise it may escalate to Allah knows what extent.

That’s kinda traditional. People defend their own homelands.
But when Putin gets around to attacking Poland or another NATO country, we will be happy to squash him like a bug.

Unfortunately, the war is not making Russia go back. Ukrainians are fighting a NATO war. I think Putin is more than a bug. Be careful.

Elixir said: "Or Russian loss of life or any life but his own."
Aup. says: In any war, it is the soldiers who die, not the generals, generally. We lost five soldiers in Ladakh a day before yesterday in a training when they were trying to ford a river in night and there was a sudden rise in water level. Unfortunate, but it happens, aircrafts crash in training, missiles go hay-wire (one of ours landed in Pakistan - we profusely apologized), etc.

Which is another reason for America to ally against him; we historically oppose dictatorship.
You don’t mind it, which is your choice.
But it is not your option to tell America to abandon Countries that are asking for help in preventing a dictator from invading them, destroying their infrastructure and murdering all their citizens.

Stay tuned, Aupy; you may very well get your way if Donald Trump is put in charge of the world’s most powerful military.
The resulting coalition of despots will visit you with all the gifts of totalitarianism.
I’d suggest you start fortifying your own territory, since every dictator that exists will be eying your burgeoning population and converting them to currency in their minds.

US has opposed democratic governments also. What happened with Allende or Nkrumah? I have a long memory. I can only mention my views. NATO will surely do what it wants.
I do not wish US a Trump. If the coalition visits us, we will give our best reply. We are trying our best to fortify our territory to the extent our finances and technology permit.

So your country wants to further secure your borders to prevent a possible future attack. But you don’t believe that Ukraine should do the same? Why?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't understand your thinking? If NATO would have been folded then how would we protect ourselves from Russia? Russia is an extremely aggressive imperialistic country. And has been since its inception.

Was the post-USSR Russia (Gorbachev or Yeltsin) ever thinking of attacking the US? But US could not leave its self-appointed role as the Universal Policeman. US could have worked out many things with them. So many countries in West have been imperialists (not excluding Tzarist Russia). Are you not afraid of them?

We don't like our role as policeman. It's just we like a world without a policeman even less than we like being that policeman.