How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Doesn't mean they're controlling things, though.

Come on, who would not like to sit in some chair in Ukraine and control things?
It probably took CIA director hours to get there after the coup.

As I said, the FSB no doubt had an equivalent. Do we thus conclude that the FSB was in control?

Actually FSB did not have anything comparable to US occupation they have now.
We should have but we did not. That's why we kinda lost control and allowed the coup.

 

[barbos]

I thought that this was an interesting response. Are you trying to say that Russia isn't losing any soldiers in Ukraine?

That's not what you said. You talked trash about Putin and Russia.

Russia does lose men, but a lot less than Ukrainian Regime.

Really? And you still can’t conquer them? Dude, your army sucks. They’re doing so great at killing Ukrainians, but they can’t take any territory? Are they cowards? Afraid to move forward? So it would seem.

Yes, really. No, our army does not suck. Even your NATO forces chief does not think they suck, even Ukro-Wehrmacht chief does not think so. Yes we are doing great killing ukrainian soldiers. And territory will come later, it actually started to come already. No, we are not cowards, we are simply not stupid.

Yeah. Sure you are. As you said 2 1/2 years ago. And after losing at least 3,000 tanks. Do you have much more left?

According to whom?
Syrsky gave an interview recently to NYT (I think) In it basically he said that russia now has more of everything (including tanks, soldiers ) than at the beginning.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I thought that this was an interesting response. Are you trying to say that Russia isn't losing any soldiers in Ukraine?

That's not what you said. You talked trash about Putin and Russia.

Russia does lose men, but a lot less than Ukrainian Regime.

Really? And you still can’t conquer them? Dude, your army sucks. They’re doing so great at killing Ukrainians, but they can’t take any territory? Are they cowards? Afraid to move forward? So it would seem.

Yes, really. No, our army does not suck. Even your NATO forces chief does not think they suck, even Ukro-Wehrmacht chief does not think so. Yes we are doing great killing ukrainian soldiers. And territory will come later, it actually started to come already. No, we are not cowards, we are simply not stupid.

Yeah. Sure you are. As you said 2 1/2 years ago. And after losing at least 3,000 tanks. Do you have much more left?

According to whom?
Syrsky gave an interview recently to NYT (I think) In it basically he said that russia now has more of everything (including tanks, soldiers ) than at the beginning.

Which is a lie. Several organizations have been monitoring Russian tank depots. Satellite photos show that their once large stockpiles of old tanks have been all but emptied of salvageable equipment. Russia is pressing any old truck it can find into service because they are out of military vehicles. Their human wave attacks take meager gains for horrendous casualties that cannot be sustained. Their artillery guns are wearing out their barrels until thy are becoming dangerous to use. about 1/4 of their advanced aircraft are now gone. and many left are nearing the end of their useful life without extensive refitting Russia has trouble providing. No Armata 14 miracle tanks are to be seen on the battle field. The Russian Navy's remnants has had to flee the Black Sea. Summer will soon be over and then the fall mud season begins.

 

[steve_bank]

If the monarchy was not so bad why did the Russian Revolution occur?.

Because capitalists were utter shit. Plus WW1 and german shenanigans. Tsar was pretty weak and incompetent.

And replaced by Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist collectivization that led to disasters. Same with Maoism, eventually replaced by a capitalism based system China has today.

The tired old Russian shtick of blaming 'the west' for all its problems.

At toilet backs up in Moscow and it is a western conspiracy. They are sabotaging Russian toilets.

Khrushchev said 'we will bury you'.

We are still here.....Russia still can't make a decent car or commercial airplane.

 

[SLD]

I thought that this was an interesting response. Are you trying to say that Russia isn't losing any soldiers in Ukraine?

That's not what you said. You talked trash about Putin and Russia.

Russia does lose men, but a lot less than Ukrainian Regime.

Really? And you still can’t conquer them? Dude, your army sucks. They’re doing so great at killing Ukrainians, but they can’t take any territory? Are they cowards? Afraid to move forward? So it would seem.

Yes, really. No, our army does not suck. Even your NATO forces chief does not think they suck, even Ukro-Wehrmacht chief does not think so. Yes we are doing great killing ukrainian soldiers. And territory will come later, it actually started to come already. No, we are not cowards, we are simply not stupid.

Yeah. Sure you are. As you said 2 1/2 years ago. And after losing at least 3,000 tanks. Do you have much more left?

According to whom?
Syrsky gave an interview recently to NYT (I think) In it basically he said that russia now has more of everything (including tanks, soldiers ) than at the beginning.

Wait. You’ve got MORE of everything? You’re killing great numbers of Ukrainians? And you STILL haven’t conquered so much as Donbas? Much less the rest of Ukraine?

I take back what I said earlier about your army sucking. They don’t suck.

To suck would be an improvement for them.

They must be quite literally the worst army in the history of mankind. And the most cowardly to boot. Put those tanks out there and drive towards Kiev if you’ve got so much and are really killing people. Instead of bragging let’s see some damn progress.

 

[barbos]

Wait. You’ve got MORE of everything? You’re killing great numbers of Ukrainians? And you STILL haven’t conquered so much as Donbas? Much less the rest of Ukraine?

You don't believe Syrsky?

 

[barbos]

And replaced by Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist collectivization that led to disasters.

Yes. You point being?

 

[barbos]

I thought that this was an interesting response. Are you trying to say that Russia isn't losing any soldiers in Ukraine?

That's not what you said. You talked trash about Putin and Russia.

Russia does lose men, but a lot less than Ukrainian Regime.

Really? And you still can’t conquer them? Dude, your army sucks. They’re doing so great at killing Ukrainians, but they can’t take any territory? Are they cowards? Afraid to move forward? So it would seem.

Yes, really. No, our army does not suck. Even your NATO forces chief does not think they suck, even Ukro-Wehrmacht chief does not think so. Yes we are doing great killing ukrainian soldiers. And territory will come later, it actually started to come already. No, we are not cowards, we are simply not stupid.

Yeah. Sure you are. As you said 2 1/2 years ago. And after losing at least 3,000 tanks. Do you have much more left?

According to whom?
Syrsky gave an interview recently to NYT (I think) In it basically he said that russia now has more of everything (including tanks, soldiers ) than at the beginning.

Which is a lie. Several organizations have been monitoring Russian tank depots. Satellite photos show that their once large stockpiles of old tanks have been all but emptied of salvageable equipment. Russia is pressing any old truck it can find into service because they are out of military vehicles. Their human wave attacks take meager gains for horrendous casualties that cannot be sustained. Their artillery guns are wearing out their barrels until thy are becoming dangerous to use. about 1/4 of their advanced aircraft are now gone. and many left are nearing the end of their useful life without extensive refitting Russia has trouble providing. No Armata 14 miracle tanks are to be seen on the battle field. The Russian Navy's remnants has had to flee the Black Sea. Summer will soon be over and then the fall mud season begins.

You call Syrsky a liar?

 

[barbos]

At toilet backs up in Moscow and it is a western conspiracy. They are sabotaging Russian toilets.

Actually it's you who blames everything on Russia,
You blamed Trump on Russia, your economic problems on Russia, everything is "Russia did it"
Having said that, Marx was a western economist/philosopher and WW1 Germany did release and supported Lenin with explicit intent to get Russia out of WW1.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I thought that this was an interesting response. Are you trying to say that Russia isn't losing any soldiers in Ukraine?

That's not what you said. You talked trash about Putin and Russia.

Russia does lose men, but a lot less than Ukrainian Regime.

Really? And you still can’t conquer them? Dude, your army sucks. They’re doing so great at killing Ukrainians, but they can’t take any territory? Are they cowards? Afraid to move forward? So it would seem.

Yes, really. No, our army does not suck. Even your NATO forces chief does not think they suck, even Ukro-Wehrmacht chief does not think so. Yes we are doing great killing ukrainian soldiers. And territory will come later, it actually started to come already. No, we are not cowards, we are simply not stupid.

Yeah. Sure you are. As you said 2 1/2 years ago. And after losing at least 3,000 tanks. Do you have much more left?

According to whom?
Syrsky gave an interview recently to NYT (I think) In it basically he said that russia now has more of everything (including tanks, soldiers ) than at the beginning.

Which is a lie. Several organizations have been monitoring Russian tank depots. Satellite photos show that their once large stockpiles of old tanks have been all but emptied of salvageable equipment. Russia is pressing any old truck it can find into service because they are out of military vehicles. Their human wave attacks take meager gains for horrendous casualties that cannot be sustained. Their artillery guns are wearing out their barrels until thy are becoming dangerous to use. about 1/4 of their advanced aircraft are now gone. and many left are nearing the end of their useful life without extensive refitting Russia has trouble providing. No Armata 14 miracle tanks are to be seen on the battle field. The Russian Navy's remnants has had to flee the Black Sea. Summer will soon be over and then the fall mud season begins.

You call Syrsky a liar?

Context:

‘I know we will win – and how’: Ukraine’s top general on turning the tables against Russia

Exclusive: Col Gen Oleksandr Syrskyi weighs Ukraine’s recent setbacks, counter strikes and the changing face of Europe’s biggest war since 1945

www.theguardian.com

Syrskyi is Ukraine’s new commander-in-chief. His unenviable task is to defeat a bigger Russian army. Two and half years into Vladimir Putin’s full-scale onslaught, he acknowledges the Russians are much better resourced. They have more of everything: tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, soldiers. Their original 100,000-strong invasion force has grown to 520,000, he said, with a goal by the end of 2024 of 690,000 men. The figures for Ukraine have not been made public.

“When it comes to equipment, there is a ratio of 1:2 or 1:3 in their favour,” he said. Since 2022 the number of Russian tanks has “doubled” – from 1,700 to 3,500. Artillery systems have tripled, and armoured personnel carriers gone up from 4,500 to 8,900. “The enemy has a significant advantage in force and resources,” Syrskyi said. “Therefore, for us, the issue of supply, the issue of quality, is really at the forefront.”

But do continue on with the article. I think it's important to note, in speaking with western media, it is Syrskyi's job to paint a picture of need to keep the flow of equipment going and to drive public opinion in a favorable direction.

We know Russian soldiers are sent to the front at gunpoint. It's die now or take your chances in the grinder. Their equipment? Is Russia getting all of what it needs to build the tanks and guns through the black market or are they sending out substandard equipment that stands about as much chance of survival in the field as Russian soldiers do? Are they getting the high quality steel needed to make artillery barrels or are they making do with a lower quality that will wear out all that much faster? This steel is also needed to make bearings. Are they getting the electronics/circuit card assemblies needed or are they having to piece things of questionable quality together? Then there is the advanced optics for their tanks I think they used to get from France. Their tanks may be less than useless at night.
Who knows? A few select high ranking Russians and western intel, I would imagine. But as Ukraine's CinC states, it's quality versus quantity.

 

[barbos]

I thought that this was an interesting response. Are you trying to say that Russia isn't losing any soldiers in Ukraine?

That's not what you said. You talked trash about Putin and Russia.

Russia does lose men, but a lot less than Ukrainian Regime.

Really? And you still can’t conquer them? Dude, your army sucks. They’re doing so great at killing Ukrainians, but they can’t take any territory? Are they cowards? Afraid to move forward? So it would seem.

Yes, really. No, our army does not suck. Even your NATO forces chief does not think they suck, even Ukro-Wehrmacht chief does not think so. Yes we are doing great killing ukrainian soldiers. And territory will come later, it actually started to come already. No, we are not cowards, we are simply not stupid.

Yeah. Sure you are. As you said 2 1/2 years ago. And after losing at least 3,000 tanks. Do you have much more left?

According to whom?
Syrsky gave an interview recently to NYT (I think) In it basically he said that russia now has more of everything (including tanks, soldiers ) than at the beginning.

Which is a lie. Several organizations have been monitoring Russian tank depots. Satellite photos show that their once large stockpiles of old tanks have been all but emptied of salvageable equipment. Russia is pressing any old truck it can find into service because they are out of military vehicles. Their human wave attacks take meager gains for horrendous casualties that cannot be sustained. Their artillery guns are wearing out their barrels until thy are becoming dangerous to use. about 1/4 of their advanced aircraft are now gone. and many left are nearing the end of their useful life without extensive refitting Russia has trouble providing. No Armata 14 miracle tanks are to be seen on the battle field. The Russian Navy's remnants has had to flee the Black Sea. Summer will soon be over and then the fall mud season begins.

You call Syrsky a liar?

Context:

‘I know we will win – and how’: Ukraine’s top general on turning the tables against Russia

Exclusive: Col Gen Oleksandr Syrskyi weighs Ukraine’s recent setbacks, counter strikes and the changing face of Europe’s biggest war since 1945

www.theguardian.com

Syrskyi is Ukraine’s new commander-in-chief. His unenviable task is to defeat a bigger Russian army. Two and half years into Vladimir Putin’s full-scale onslaught, he acknowledges the Russians are much better resourced. They have more of everything: tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, soldiers. Their original 100,000-strong invasion force has grown to 520,000, he said, with a goal by the end of 2024 of 690,000 men. The figures for Ukraine have not been made public.

“When it comes to equipment, there is a ratio of 1:2 or 1:3 in their favour,” he said. Since 2022 the number of Russian tanks has “doubled” – from 1,700 to 3,500. Artillery systems have tripled, and armoured personnel carriers gone up from 4,500 to 8,900. “The enemy has a significant advantage in force and resources,” Syrskyi said. “Therefore, for us, the issue of supply, the issue of quality, is really at the forefront.”

But do continue on with the article. I think it's important to note, in speaking with western media, it is Syrskyi's job to paint a picture of need to keep the flow of equipment going and to drive public opinion in a favorable direction.

We know Russian soldiers are sent to the front at gunpoint. It's die now or take your chances in the grinder. Their equipment? Is Russia getting all of what it needs to build the tanks and guns through the black market or are they sending out substandard equipment that stands about as much chance of survival in the field as Russian soldiers do? Are they getting the high quality steel needed to make artillery barrels or are they making do with a lower quality that will wear out all that much faster? This steel is also needed to make bearings. Are they getting the electronics/circuit card assemblies needed or are they having to piece things of questionable quality together? Then there is the advanced optics for their tanks I think they used to get from France. Their tanks may be less than useless at night.
Who knows? A few select high ranking Russians and western intel, I would imagine. But as Ukraine's CinC states, it's quality versus quantity.

I am well aware that you are fed this BS. No need to post it anymore.
So you are basically saying that while Russian army is utterly losing, Syrsky need to lie to get more stuff from the West (which they don't have) to defeat losing Russia. That makes total sense, Washington Bob.

 

[barbos]

US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev

Ian Traynor: US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev

Analysis: Ukraine, traditionally passive in its politics, has been mobilised by young democracy activists and will never be the same again.

www.theguardian.com

But while the gains of the orange-bedecked "chestnut revolution" are Ukraine's, the campaign is an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing that, in four countries in four years, has been used to try to salvage rigged elections and topple unsavoury regimes.

 

[SLD]

Wait. You’ve got MORE of everything? You’re killing great numbers of Ukrainians? And you STILL haven’t conquered so much as Donbas? Much less the rest of Ukraine?

You don't believe Syrsky?

You started this Kupyansk offensive in January! And you still haven’t captured this city? What the fuck is wrong with your army, dude?

I say they’re cowards.

But I can’t blame them. Why the fuck should they sacrifice their lives for Putin’s glory? Do the world a favor and revolt against this cocksucker.

 

[barbos]

You started this Kupyansk offensive in January!

You know that how?

I say they’re cowards.

I say you need to ease up on propaganda.

 

[SLD]

You started this Kupyansk offensive in January!

You know that how?

I say they’re cowards.

I say you need to ease up on propaganda.

Here are the front lines around Kupyansk in February:



And here they are yesterday:



You know . . . You have made some advances. You might get BACK into Izyum by the end of this decade. Of course you’d still be over 300 km away from Kiev. I think you get there somewhere around ‘37. 2137. But feel free to keep trying!

 

[steve_bank]

And replaced by Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist collectivization that led to disasters.

Yes. You point being?

As I said, Putin is a continuation of Stalinism. Brutal, oppressive. No free speech or press. Assignation. Jailing gossiping voices. Putin cut off grain from Ukraine that led to hunger in places in the world. Stalinistic brutality.

Having grown up in the west it is unimaginable what it would be like living in a country like that. I can not imagine what it would be like to live in a country with a monolithic rigid culture with no cultural and intellectual diversity. Ukrainian refugees in Washington are adding to the diversity.

Stalin and his successors obsessed with being against the west eventually led Russia to a catastrophic economic failure.

China on the other hand while adversarial to a degree integrated with the west and became an economic power. Russia remains a backwater. Other than nukes inconsequential. Putin tries to spear relevant on the world stage but it is all for Russian media. Putin as allies has North Korea ad Cuba outside the Russian Federation. I think China is highly programmatic, they appear to ally with Russia because it suits them right now. In the news Russian warships have arrived at Cuba, who cares? Putin cllngs to an od Soviet client stae to feel he has power. Cuba is quietly going capitalist.

The majority of us over here are not afraid of diversity in thought and politics. We had a Seattle city council woman who is communist and wants to tear down the system. An immigrant from India. Hers and other progressive council members' policies led to her and others getting voted out, that is democracy.

Without the possibility of political change as in a dictatorship or authoritarian system like Russia nothing changes and nothng improves. Stagnation.

 

[Elixir]

Without the possibility of political change as in a dictatorship or authoritarian system like Russia nothing changes and nothng improves. Stagnation.

To be technically correct, there is not only the possibility but a virtually certainty of political change in Russia. Theirs is a history of tolerating authoritarians until they can’t, having bloody revolts and then installing the next Russian authoritarian despot.
Maybe they change the title once in a while, just to make it feel a little different. Yesterday’s Tsar or Emperor is today’s “President”.
The whole shithole country is depressing, their people are depressing and their leaders are despicable. Always have been.
But their current one is emphatic that they have “the best hookers in the world”, so there’s that to lift them up.

 

[Tigers!]

At toilet backs up in Moscow and it is a western conspiracy. They are sabotaging Russian toilets.

Actually it's you who blames everything on Russia,
You blamed Trump on Russia, your economic problems on Russia, everything is "Russia did it"
Having said that, Marx was a western economist/philosopher and WW1 Germany did release and supported Lenin with explicit intent to get Russia out of WW1.

Has anyone ever told Barbos that Marx was Jewish?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Without the possibility of political change as in a dictatorship or authoritarian system like Russia nothing changes and nothng improves. Stagnation.

To be technically correct, there is not only the possibility but a virtually certainty of political change in Russia. Theirs is a history of tolerating authoritarians until they can’t, having bloody revolts and then installing the next Russian authoritarian despot.
Maybe they change the title once in a while, just to make it feel a little different. Yesterday’s Tsar or Emperor is today’s “President”.
The whole shithole country is depressing, their people are depressing and their leaders are despicable. Always have been.
But their current one is emphatic that they have “the best hookers in the world”, so there’s that to lift them up.

Ivan the terrible was so disgusted with the fucked up shithole that is Russia that he actually wanted to move to England and live there. He was constantly in Elizabeth's ear looking for a suitor of noble blood so he could leave the shithole of Russia behind. Unfortunately for him he died before that ever happened and Elizabeth wanted no part of it anyway. When your ruler wants to abdicate and leave the country you know it's a shithole.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Wait. You’ve got MORE of everything? You’re killing great numbers of Ukrainians? And you STILL haven’t conquered so much as Donbas? Much less the rest of Ukraine?

You don't believe Syrsky?

You started this Kupyansk offensive in January! And you still haven’t captured this city? What the fuck is wrong with your army, dude?

I say they’re cowards.

But I can’t blame them. Why the fuck should they sacrifice their lives for Putin’s glory? Do the world a favor and revolt against this cocksucker.

Some videos on Youtube show Russians attacking and being blown up one by one. They drive their tanks along roads the Ukrainians have sighted in on. And die. And do it again, and again and again. It is heartbreakingly stupid.