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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

I have been thinking for some time about the relationship between freedom, education, and military skills.

I don’t have statistics or other data, but I’ve noticed that Ukraine is succeeding with fewer resources because it has at least two advantages:

  • The freedom to make decisions independently, which has now been emphasized even in the entrenched doctrines of the military. From the very first days of the war, citizens planned how to defend themselves; they took to the streets to resist the Russian army, made Molotov cocktails, and the first drone attacks were carried out by private individuals, etc.

  • Freedom for private enterprise, which has led to the emergence of defense-supporting companies and subcontractors like mushrooms after rain. This is largely tied to the good education of the citizens.

  • Of course, they also make mistakes there, but they learn from them.
In Russia, things are different:

  • There is no initiative because orders must always come from “above.”

  • There is private enterprise, but the decisive forces have already left the country.

  • Education has been neglected for decades, and there has never been an understanding that the entire population needs to be educated, not just the elite, who quickly get used to their offspring stepping into an already set table.
Ukraine is a dangerous country for Russia because it can demonstrate how quickly a country can develop compared to Russia’s outdated practices. And yet, the starting points of the two countries were not all that different.
  • In the next 2-3 decades, Ukraine will develop significantly—despite the war.
  • Russia will have to wait another 2-3 decades for the "old guard" to pass away. Unfortunately, after that, the spoiled children of the elite will come to power, meaning several more decades of stagnation.
    New Russian electric car:

    1725718753142.png
    Additionally, due to its status as a pariah state, Russian products will no longer be sold as before.
    Of course, raw materials will still be sold to some extent, as before the wars, and Russia will remain a raw material producer like some African countries.
However, even Africa is developing.
 
steve_bank said:
barbos said:
You are still discussing what some random estonian idiot was asked to say?
Baltic Vymirates are nothing but a neocon lapdogs. Neocons tell them "Bark at Russia" and they do.
That's all there is to it. Sometimes they bark without command, but that's just how dogs are.
Click to expand...
What we are discussing is a Russian's random nonsense propaganda.

There is probably audio recordings somewhere online of old Soviet propaganda broadcasts. I used to listen to them on shortwave radio. China as well and Russian client states.

I bet it would sound like you. Are you banging your shoe and pounding your fists on your desk like Khrushchev did at the UN?

The text of the speech.


Putin and Khrushchev have the same vocalizations and tone of voice.

Click to expand...
Will you ever stop this USSR BS?
Russia is not USSR. And I told you already I had not been fun of it.
Having said that, you don't know shit about USSR or Russia. in fact you don't know shit about US.
 
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
barbos said:
You are still discussing what some random estonian idiot was asked to say?
Baltic Vymirates are nothing but a neocon lapdogs. Neocons tell them "Bark at Russia" and they do.
That's all there is to it. Sometimes they bark without command, but that's just how dogs are.
Click to expand...
What we are discussing is a Russian's random nonsense propaganda.

There is probably audio recordings somewhere online of old Soviet propaganda broadcasts. I used to listen to them on shortwave radio. China as well and Russian client states.

I bet it would sound like you. Are you banging your shoe and pounding your fists on your desk like Khrushchev did at the UN?

The text of the speech.


Putin and Khrushchev have the same vocalizations and tone of voice.

Click to expand...
Will you ever stop this USSR BS?
Russia is not USSR. And I told you already I had not been fun of it.
Having said that, you don't know shit about USSR or Russia.
Click to expand...

You keep saying this, and then in the next sentence you'll allege that Ukraine isn't a real country because it had a different language in 1472!
 
Harry Bosch said:
You keep saying this, and then in the next sentence you'll allege that Ukraine isn't a real country because it had a different language in 1472!
Click to expand...
Methinks babs is melting down.
As an extension of Trumpworld, that should surprise nobody. As Trump loses his shit, so does Pootey. He sees the writing on the wall; Cheato will MASSIVELY lose the popular vote. The EC may very well follow, and the promised civil war will almost certainly fizzle, leaving Pootey’s ass hanging out there in the breeze, an easy target for the next oligarch.
So babs losing his shit is quite predictable.
 
Harry Bosch said:
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
barbos said:
You are still discussing what some random estonian idiot was asked to say?
Baltic Vymirates are nothing but a neocon lapdogs. Neocons tell them "Bark at Russia" and they do.
That's all there is to it. Sometimes they bark without command, but that's just how dogs are.
Click to expand...
What we are discussing is a Russian's random nonsense propaganda.

There is probably audio recordings somewhere online of old Soviet propaganda broadcasts. I used to listen to them on shortwave radio. China as well and Russian client states.

I bet it would sound like you. Are you banging your shoe and pounding your fists on your desk like Khrushchev did at the UN?

The text of the speech.


Putin and Khrushchev have the same vocalizations and tone of voice.

Click to expand...
Will you ever stop this USSR BS?
Russia is not USSR. And I told you already I had not been fun of it.
Having said that, you don't know shit about USSR or Russia.
Click to expand...

You keep saying this, and then in the next sentence you'll allege that Ukraine isn't a real country because it had a different language in 1472!
Click to expand...
First, I said no such thing. Second, even if I did, how is that related to this soviet BS you keep bringing?
 
Henry-Finland said:
Ukraine is a dangerous country for Russia because it can demonstrate how quickly a country can develop compared to Russia’s outdated practices. And yet, the starting points of the two countries were not all that different.
Click to expand...
This is what drives Adolph Putin's war. Fear, greed, jealousy, take your pick but I think it's mostly fear that if this Ukraine freedom shit hits home I and my cronies are in a world of shit.
 
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
barbos said:
You are still discussing what some random estonian idiot was asked to say?
Baltic Vymirates are nothing but a neocon lapdogs. Neocons tell them "Bark at Russia" and they do.
That's all there is to it. Sometimes they bark without command, but that's just how dogs are.
Click to expand...
What we are discussing is a Russian's random nonsense propaganda.

There is probably audio recordings somewhere online of old Soviet propaganda broadcasts. I used to listen to them on shortwave radio. China as well and Russian client states.

I bet it would sound like you. Are you banging your shoe and pounding your fists on your desk like Khrushchev did at the UN?

The text of the speech.


Putin and Khrushchev have the same vocalizations and tone of voice.

Click to expand...
Will you ever stop this USSR BS?
Russia is not USSR. And I told you already I had not been fun of it.
Having said that, you don't know shit about USSR or Russia. in fact you don't know shit about US.
Click to expand...
Putin's Russia and USS - Stalinism.

Dictatorship - Authoritarian
blame west for Russian troubles
fear mongering over west as an existential imminent threa
no civil rights
no free elections
no free press
opposition voices jailed

Barbos, your forum rhetoric is right out of the Soviet Union. Putin came up in the Soviet Union and was a KGB operative. Putin;s justification for the war is right out of the Soviet Union.

As Henry said, antiquated ways of doing things.

The post WWII west was never a military threat to Russia, it collapsed al on its own. Putin's Russia's problems are all Putin's doings. NATO was created to counter exact6ly what Putin is doing today.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
Henry-Finland said:
Ukraine is a dangerous country for Russia because it can demonstrate how quickly a country can develop compared to Russia’s outdated practices. And yet, the starting points of the two countries were not all that different.
Click to expand...
This is what drives Adolph Putin's war. Fear, greed, jealousy, take your pick but I think it's mostly fear that if this Ukraine freedom shit hits home I and my cronies are in a world of shit.
Click to expand...
Georgia was getting corruption under control. getting stable, and getting westrn investment.

Putin could not stand a neighbor's success.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
Henry-Finland said:
Ukraine is a dangerous country for Russia because it can demonstrate how quickly a country can develop compared to Russia’s outdated practices. And yet, the starting points of the two countries were not all that different.
Click to expand...
This is what drives Adolph Putin's war. Fear, greed, jealousy, take your pick but I think it's mostly fear that if this Ukraine freedom shit hits home I and my cronies are in a world of shit.
Click to expand...

You and Henry are absolutely correct. They aren't afraid of Nato invasion. Nato is a defensive entity. A very very powerful defensive entity. But the real issue is that Russia doesn't want another successful democratic country on its border that is doing very well. It's no mystery that they invaded in 2014, just before western countries were in Ukraine preparing to develop the gas fields and rare earth mines in Ukraine.
 
Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, Crimea, Moldavia, the Baltics. Russia has been attacking or threatening its neighbors for years now. It is opportunistic empire building. And to an extent, it has worked. But Putin overplayed his hand. Ukraine was not going to fall as his toadies assured Putin. And Sweden and Finland drew a line in the sand. Poland and the Baltics are not cowed as hoped for. Moldavia was obviously the next target but that is off the table for now. The clock is now ticking and Russia has three years until its military resources can no longer be viable forces to continue aggressively. There is no easy off ramp for Russia.

At this point, all Russia can hope for is to keep Eastern Ukrainian territories Russia currently controls in exchange for 'peace'. But any agreement is only for the time being and subject to revision.
 
Harry Bosch said:
Russia doesn't want another successful democratic country on its border that is doing very well
Click to expand...
Particularly as Utin has first-hand experience of the corrosive effect a successful neighbour has on authoritarian regimes, having been in East Germany when the East German people finally realised that the only difference between their poverty and their West German neighbours' prosperity was the leadership.

Just as with Russia and Ukraine, they were fundamentally the same people, starting from the same base, with the same advantages and disadvantages; But the ones without totalitarian and kleptocratic rule had stereos, blue jeans, home computers, modern appliances (and the electricity to run them), nice cars, low pollution, clean streets, and a generally higher standard of living in every regard.

Russia is still using technology designed in the 1970s. In most cases, they are still using infrastructure built in the 1970s.

It's not that ordinary Russians cannot produce anything better; But that it is pointless for them to try, because if they suceeed, their idea will immediately be stolen from them. So why bother?
 
The economic system is different, but political Russia is the same old Soviet Union in practice.

Russia went from an oppressive aristocracy to Soviet communism withoutt any civil rights. Maybe Russia is culturally doomed to auti9rterian rule.

From the little reading I did on Chinese politics at the lower levels there are democratic process that gets more centralized as it goes up to the top. From what I read the CCP at the top is an exclusive club. Yo don't campaign for it, you are selects for membership.

The CCP can be draconian to say the least, but I believe they do have the welfare of the people in min d. They do work to improve the general conditions s of the people.

I doubt a Putin figure could rise to the top of the CCP as it is today.
 
So Ostin did not give the Kiev Hitler permission to use american missiles in Russia.
I guess the dumbass prefers to see his aircraft carriers in one piece and on the surface of the ocean.
 
steve_bank said:
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
barbos said:
You are still discussing what some random estonian idiot was asked to say?
Baltic Vymirates are nothing but a neocon lapdogs. Neocons tell them "Bark at Russia" and they do.
That's all there is to it. Sometimes they bark without command, but that's just how dogs are.
Click to expand...
What we are discussing is a Russian's random nonsense propaganda.

There is probably audio recordings somewhere online of old Soviet propaganda broadcasts. I used to listen to them on shortwave radio. China as well and Russian client states.

I bet it would sound like you. Are you banging your shoe and pounding your fists on your desk like Khrushchev did at the UN?

The text of the speech.


Putin and Khrushchev have the same vocalizations and tone of voice.

Click to expand...
Will you ever stop this USSR BS?
Russia is not USSR. And I told you already I had not been fun of it.
Having said that, you don't know shit about USSR or Russia. in fact you don't know shit about US.
Click to expand...
Putin's Russia and USS - Stalinism.

Dictatorship - Authoritarian
blame west for Russian troubles
fear mongering over west as an existential imminent threa
no civil rights
no free elections
no free press
opposition voices jailed

Barbos, your forum rhetoric is right out of the Soviet Union. Putin came up in the Soviet Union and was a KGB operative. Putin;s justification for the war is right out of the Soviet Union.

As Henry said, antiquated ways of doing things.

The post WWII west was never a military threat to Russia, it collapsed al on its own. Putin's Russia's problems are all Putin's doings. NATO was created to counter exact6ly what Putin is doing today.
Click to expand...
Utter bullshit.
 
steve_bank said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
Henry-Finland said:
Ukraine is a dangerous country for Russia because it can demonstrate how quickly a country can develop compared to Russia’s outdated practices. And yet, the starting points of the two countries were not all that different.
Click to expand...
This is what drives Adolph Putin's war. Fear, greed, jealousy, take your pick but I think it's mostly fear that if this Ukraine freedom shit hits home I and my cronies are in a world of shit.
Click to expand...
Georgia was getting corruption under control. getting stable, and getting westrn investment.

Putin could not stand a neighbor's success.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's why Saaka Georgia attacked Russia. Stop "making" so much "sense"!
 
Ok I had to look this up. NOBODY would ever design something so ug, let alone buy it. Has to be AI.
1725768333313.png
NOPE! It’s for reelz. Looks like 10” wheels and 3” ground clearance. Apparently comes with a front that has been pre-collided into a downed tree. I bet a healthy babushka could push it over on its side.
 
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