• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

barbos said:
pood said:
I worked for years at a business started by a Hungarian refugee from the 1956 revolution. He at age 16, was forced to flee Hungary with a price on his head for his counter revolutionary activities.
Click to expand...
pood said:
barbos said:
1956 was 10 years after WW2 in which Germany and Hungary both were allies and both invaded Russia.
10 years after USSR won and was devastated by that war, after which US and UK started Cold war trying to destroy USSR and the rest of soviet block including Hungary.
Click to expand...

Wrong. What started the Cold War was that Stalin reneged on his Yalta promise to hold free elections in Eastern European countries.
Click to expand...
he did the right thing, becasue US/UK were thinking about using germans to attack USSR right after the end WW2.
Click to expand...

Do you have a cite to substantiate this arrant nonsense, this utter bullshit? Of course not. Just like all your other wild fantastical bullshit nonsense.
barbos said:
Having said that, West Germany and Japan had not had "free" elections for a long time after WW2. In fact, I would argue they are still occupied.
Click to expand...
:rofl:
barbos said:
Most of the Eastern Europe were under tight control of local communists which took part in war against western Europe Hitler.
Click to expand...
And we saw what happened in 1989-90, didn’t we, when Gorbachev loosened the reins on Eastern Europe and the Eastern European countries, every last one of them, kicked out the Communist Russians and in Romania they even executed the Commie first couple. Eastern Europeans despise Russia, for very good reasons.
 
Russians are bastards - a result of many older nations:

The origins of the Russian people can be traced to a complex mixture of ethnic groups and cultures that inhabited the region now known as Russia over several millennia. Here's a broad timeline of key influences and migrations that shaped the Russian people:

1.​

  • Ancient Steppe Nomads: The region was home to various nomadic tribes like the Scythians, Sarmatians, and other Indo-European peoples. These groups inhabited the vast steppes and had cultural and trade exchanges with neighboring civilizations, including the Greeks and Persians.
  • Finno-Ugric Peoples: Northern and central Russia were populated by Finno-Ugric tribes (ancestors of modern Finns, Estonians, and some groups in Russia like the Mari and Komi). These tribes were indigenous to the forested areas of the region and lived there long before the Slavic migrations.

2.​

  • Slavic Migration (500-600 CE): The Slavs, an Indo-European group, began expanding from their homeland, likely around modern-day Ukraine, Poland, and Belarus, into Eastern Europe around the 6th century CE. As they moved into the region, they absorbed local populations and adapted to the new environments.
  • Eastern Slavs: By the 7th century, the Eastern Slavs, ancestors of modern Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians, had settled in the forest-steppe zones of what is now western Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.

3.​

  • Varangians (Vikings): In the 9th century, Scandinavian Norsemen (known as Varangians) began trading and raiding along the rivers of Eastern Europe. They played a key role in the establishment of Kievan Rus' (circa 882 CE), a loose federation of Slavic and Finno-Ugric peoples ruled by a Varangian elite. The city of Kyiv (in modern-day Ukraine) became the center of this early state.
  • The mixing of Varangian rulers and Slavic inhabitants contributed to the formation of a distinct Eastern Slavic culture. The Rurik dynasty, founded by the Varangian prince Rurik, is often considered the origin of Russian statehood.

4.​

  • Christianization of Kievan Rus' (988 CE): Under Prince Vladimir the Great, Kievan Rus' adopted Byzantine Christianity, a crucial moment in shaping the cultural and religious identity of the Eastern Slavs. This event laid the foundation for the future Russian Orthodox Church, which would play a central role in the cultural identity of Russia.
  • Over time, the Eastern Slavs in Kievan Rus' began to develop into distinct groups, including Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians. The decline of Kievan Rus' in the 12th century due to internal divisions and Mongol invasions further accelerated the divergence.

5.​

  • Mongol-Tatar Rule (1240–1480): The Mongol invasion of 1237–1240 led to the fragmentation of Kievan Rus' and the imposition of the Mongol-Tatar "Golden Horde" rule over much of Russia for about two centuries. This period deeply influenced Russian political, military, and administrative systems.
  • Moscow's Rise (14th–15th century): The city of Moscow gradually rose to prominence during this time. Under princes like Ivan III ("Ivan the Great"), Moscow expanded its influence, eventually overthrowing Mongol rule in 1480. This marks the beginning of the Russian state centered around Moscow, known as Muscovy.

6.​

  • Tsardom of Russia (1547): Ivan IV ("Ivan the Terrible") was the first ruler to be crowned Tsar of Russia in 1547. Under his reign and his successors, Muscovy expanded across Siberia and consolidated much of what is modern Russia.
  • Further Expansion: Over the next few centuries, the Russian Empire expanded its territory, incorporating many ethnic groups and cultures. This laid the foundation for the vast multiethnic empire that would last until the 20th century.

Key Points:​

  • Eastern Slavs, emerging from a mix of Slavic, Finno-Ugric, and some Norse influences, are the ancestors of modern Russians.
  • The 9th century Kievan Rus' period marks the formation of the early Russian state, with a blend of Viking rulers and Slavic inhabitants.
  • The Christianization in 988 CE and the rise of Moscow in the 14th century were pivotal in shaping the Russian identity.
  • Mongol influence and the eventual rise of Muscovy helped consolidate what would become the Russian Empire, starting in the 16th century.
Thus, the Russian people and identity emerged over centuries from a fusion of various ethnic and cultural influences across a vast and diverse land.
 
Henry-Finland said:
  • Finno-Ugric Peoples: Northern and central Russia were populated by Finno-Ugric tribes (ancestors of modern Finns, Estonians, and some groups in Russia like the Mari and Komi). These tribes were indigenous to the forested areas of the region and lived there long before the Slavic migrations.

​

Click to expand...

Well, that settles it, then! Russia belongs to Finland and Estonia!
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
I'm convinced barbos is paid.
Click to expand...
I thought he admitted that.
Nobody in Russia has actual free time with which they could do anything they want, and would decide to go haunt an American Internet forum, post talking-point Putinista lies and voluntarily make themself an object of ridicule.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
pood said:
Do you have a cite to substantiate this arrant nonsense, this utter bullshit? Of course not. Just like all your other wild fantastical bullshit nonsense.
Click to expand...
I'm convinced barbos is paid. All evidence says so.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that he is paid. Maybe so, maybe not. But clearly he's angry! I think that he's in the club of angry patriots:

en.wikipedia.org

Club of Angry Patriots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

To me, the real issue is Barbos and the Angry Patriots is how many are there? And why are they so angry? It can't be just because of Nato.
 
pood said:
Henry-Finland said:
  • Finno-Ugric Peoples: Northern and central Russia were populated by Finno-Ugric tribes (ancestors of modern Finns, Estonians, and some groups in Russia like the Mari and Komi). These tribes were indigenous to the forested areas of the region and lived there long before the Slavic migrations.

​

Click to expand...

Well, that settles it, then! Russia belongs to Finland and Estonia!
Click to expand...

And Mongolia.
 
I usually don't want to write about internal matters of the USA.
However, I have to now, because Trump is clearly Putin's puppet.

1725909020334.png

And there are many others too...
Check this movie. It tells a lot of the dangers:
 
Henry-Finland said:
I usually don't want to write about internal matters of the USA.
However, I have to now, because Trump is clearly Putin's puppet.

And there are many others too...
Check this movie. It tells a lot of the dangers:
Click to expand...
Orangey wants money. He doesn't care how he gets it or where it comes from so long as he doesn't get caught because getting caught costs money. He wants to build casinos in Russia, China, NK, anywhere he can to make money so he's gonna chummy-up to whoever it takes.
 
I know Kissinger had a lot of people who hated the guy, I read his book Diplomacy. It gave me a sense of the constantly clanging and stifling power alliances and power plays leading up to WWI and WWII.

The Poland Partition is an example. Russia and China are still playing the old empire game. The reining powers arbitrarily carving up defeated territory.

Stalin made a claim to part of P:land and Putin Ukraine. China and Taiwan, I heard a Chinese historical claim to Okinawa.

It is obvious where Putin is coming from. A Russian empire. It would be interesting to know how history is taught in Russia.


en.wikipedia.org

Partitions of Poland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Partitions of Poland[a] were three partitions of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth that took place toward the end of the 18th century and ended the existence of the state, resulting in the elimination of sovereign Poland and Lithuania for 123 years. The partitions were conducted by the Habsburg monarchy, the Kingdom of Prussia, and the Russian Empire, which divided up the Commonwealth lands among themselves progressively in the process of territorial seizures and annexations.[1][2][3][4]

The First Partition was decided on August 5, 1772, after the Bar Confederation lost the war with Russia. The Second Partition occurred in the aftermath of the Polish–Russian War of 1792 and the Targowica Confederation when Russian and Prussian troops entered the Commonwealth and the partition treaty was signed during the Grodno Sejm on January 23, 1793 (without Austria). The Third Partition took place on October 24, 1795, in reaction to the unsuccessful Polish Kościuszko Uprising the previous year. With this partition, the Commonwealth ceased to exist.[1]
Click to expand...
 
steve_bank said:
It would be interesting to know how history is taught in Russia.
Click to expand...
Prob'ly about as accurate as the BS I was fed in East Coast grade school about enterprising colonists, friendly, welcoming Indians and thanksgiving feasts.

That was early public school indoctrination. Equal and opposite stories were oft told in some of the private schools I was sentenced to.
10th grade was particularly enlightening. The school was a very private, newly built including faculty residences, boarding facilities and humongous "Main Building" that had eating, music and entertainment facilities all located on a campus of (by memory) around a hundred acres near Diablo CA..
It was the very first year of its operation. There were 63 students and a dozen or so faculty total, grades 9-10, but plans to grow dramatically into grades 9-12 with more than double the students and time and a half the faculty.
But for that inaugural year, the faculty ratio was pretty damn strong. Some of the faculty were intent on cultivating "independent thought", and some of us kinda gravitated to the idea. The School had a mimeograph machine, which I and a few cohorts employed to our own ends, rather than to assignments. We spent a lot of time venting, publishing and distributing our liberal wisdom and encouraging resistance and even revolt where needed. Meanwhile, sympathetic teachers enabled other experiences, like my first first-hand exposure to SDS, Abbey Hoffman, protests and tear gas. Went to my first raceday at Laguna Seca, and read lots of subversive shit by guys like Steinbeck. All of this was not well received by the Powers that were (actually the nameless investors of whom I was 100% unaware), nor was the token support given our efforts by some of the faculty.
By the end of the school year, over a third of the student body and about half the faculty were kicked out, or as in my case, "asked not to come back". But it was a great education, above and beyond anything I had experienced.
Only in America, the Land of the Free.

The next year was another education ... big city public school.
 
I know what you men Elixir. I have beenwatching some of the old cowboy movies I watched as a kid, today they look pretty bad. Injuns bad, whites good. Kill all Injuns.

I think it has changed, at least here in the PNW where there is a strong Native Amer-can presence. There is media debate over NA and minority issues.

Back in the 90s meaningful open public debate over slavery and racism appeared.

Inclusion has now become part of primary education, while there are some who fight against it. Florida for example. There is debate on how it should be taught at the primary level.

My RCC 60s high school education looking back was very good with one exception. Civil rights and black suppression was never touched on. Same with the VN War.

Things evolved in western democracies. We went form slavery to Jim Crow to Civil Rights to Obama and now Harris.

Hard to deny there is progress.

We have our cultural myths. Equal opportunity for one, not exactly true for all at any given time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom