Immigrant Concentration Camps

[Derec]

What's depressing is I just know fuckwits like Peter Dutton are looking at this, then looking at Manus Island and think, "not a bad idea, that'.

Maybe we can house the mass migrants at Gitmo. Would also solve the issue of pregnant migrants and anchor babies since it's Cuban soil.

 

[Derec]

coming to the US border and pleading for asylum.

Most are not so much "pleading for asylum" but engaging in asylum scam.

From the mother of the Left's favorite asscam martyr, Oscar Martinez.

I didn’t want them to go,” Ms. Ramírez, Mr. Martínez’s mother, said this week in an interview at the small, two-bedroom rowhouse that she shared with her son and his family. “But they didn’t take my advice.”

It remains unclear how the Martínez family intended to argue their case for asylum, or whether they even understood the legal basis for gaining such protection. Mr. Martínez’s wife, Ms. Ávalos, did not respond to requests for an interview.

But Ms. Ramírez repeatedly said that her son and his family were not fleeing persecution or the threat of it — requirements for gaining asylum in the United States.

They migrated “only because of the economic situation,” she said. “Lamentably, the salaries here are very little and they aren’t enough,” she added, speaking softly.

‘I Didn’t Want Them to Go’: Salvadoran Family Grieves for Father and Daughter Who Drowned

And increasingly this asscam is not limited to central America, but is going global, even including migrants from as far away as Bangladesh.

 

[Derec]

The goal is the same, to get rid of the infestation.

Open borders are simply unworkable. And trying to claim that trying to protect your borders from mass migration is somehow Naziesque is just ridiculous.

The asylum laws we have today were put in place in response to the failures in countries rejecting the Jewish refugees.

Quite. But laws must evolve with the times. The world today is not the same as the world in the 1940s. Specifically, the drafters of these asylum laws did not foresee economic illegal migrants misusing asylum laws to try to get into developed countries like US or EU countries. People like Oscar who wanted to make more money to build a house, wasn't fleeing any violence or persecution and yet still applied for asylum.

Says you. From the 80s to the 00s, were averaging over a 100k border apprehensions a month. We're even bigger now, we can handle it.

Obviously we can't. One big difference between 1980s and 90s and today is the emergence of the asylum scam. Becuase all these illegals are claiming asylum you can't send them back on the spot but you have to out them through the legal process that can last years.

You mean because they are requiring humane treatment? They are not even required to detain anyone. They are choosing to house them.

The alternative to detaining them is to just let them in. I.e. open borders.

No, she wants to make sure the money is going to the right place, not just for more enforcement.

The compromise bill has funds for both humanitarian purposes and for enforcement. AOC and other open border activists do not want any money to go to enforcement.

Only to the chicken littles of the world, the same ones who are warmongering against Iran.

It's not chicken little to recognize real dangers of mass migration. Just look at Europe!
And Iran is doing the warmongering here. They are involved in proxy wars in Yemen (against Yemen and against Saudi Arabia), in Syria and Lebanon (against these countries but also against Israel), Gaza (against Israel) etc.
In addition they are attacking international shipping and US surveillance drones.

 

[Derec]

You do realize that a disinterested and rational reader would recognize that wanting to build a house was not the stated reason for the immigration.

Of course that is not the stated reason. He would need a better (albeit fictional) stated reason to fraudulently apply for asylum. But it is the actual reason.

Nor is it incompatible with seeking asylum.

Stop trying to pretend that Oscar was a legitimate asylum seeker. He was not. Even his mother admits as much.
‘I Didn’t Want Them to Go’: Salvadoran Family Grieves for Father and Daughter Who Drowned

“I didn’t want them to go,” Ms. Ramírez, Mr. Martínez’s mother, said this week in an interview at the small, two-bedroom rowhouse that she shared with her son and his family. “But they didn’t take my advice.”
It remains unclear how the Martínez family intended to argue their case for asylum, or whether they even understood the legal basis for gaining such protection. Mr. Martínez’s wife, Ms. Ávalos, did not respond to requests for an interview.
But Ms. Ramírez repeatedly said that her son and his family were not fleeing persecution or the threat of it — requirements for gaining asylum in the United States.
They migrated “only because of the economic situation,” she said. “Lamentably, the salaries here are very little and they aren’t enough,” she added, speaking softly.

This is a humanitarian crisis, not a crisis of invasion, no matter how much bigots, nationalists and their dupes wish to make it.

It is an invasion of mass migrants. The humanitarian crisis is real, but it has been caused by the large number of mass migrants who want to enter US no matter what.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why can't these applicants simply stay out of the US (with their kids staying with them) until their applications are processed? They are in Mexico and not their state of origin before coming to the US. Why can't they just stay in Mexico until the application process is done? Wouldn't that satisfy the concerns of both the Democrats and Republicans? Mexico can probably be convinced to allow it.

The two that passed away in the Rio Grande were doing just that. The administration has been slow-walking the application process. The father and daughter had been waiting in Mexico for two months for their number to finally come up to apply.

 

[Derec]

The two that passed away in the Rio Grande were doing just that.

The two that drowned in the Rio Grande did not have any legitimate claim to asylum.

The administration has been slow-walking the application process.

That is due to huge influx of so-called "asylum seekers" at the border. And the reason there are so many applications is that so many economic migrants like Oscar Martinez are submitting fraudulent applications.

The father and daughter had been waiting in Mexico for two months for their number to finally come up to apply.

Again, they had no legitimate claim.

I didn’t want them to go,” Ms. Ramírez, Mr. Martínez’s mother, said this week in an interview at the small, two-bedroom rowhouse that she shared with her son and his family. “But they didn’t take my advice.”
It remains unclear how the Martínez family intended to argue their case for asylum, or whether they even understood the legal basis for gaining such protection. Mr. Martínez’s wife, Ms. Ávalos, did not respond to requests for an interview.
But Ms. Ramírez repeatedly said that her son and his family were not fleeing persecution or the threat of it — requirements for gaining asylum in the United States.
They migrated “only because of the economic situation,” she said. “Lamentably, the salaries here are very little and they aren’t enough,” she added, speaking softly.

 

[ZiprHead]

That is due to huge influx of so-called "asylum seekers" at the border.

That's a reason to slow down the process?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why can't these applicants simply stay out of the US (with their kids staying with them) until their applications are processed? They are in Mexico and not their state of origin before coming to the US. Why can't they just stay in Mexico until the application process is done? Wouldn't that satisfy the concerns of both the Democrats and Republicans? Mexico can probably be convinced to allow it.

This approach would mean they would be dead of old age before the applications were processed.

 

[Derec]

That is due to huge influx of so-called "asylum seekers" at the border.

That's a reason to slow down the process?

No, but having a huge influx leads to slowdowns.
I have seen no evidence they decreased the rate of processing. It's just that on relative terms, it appears slower when you have a large number of people who want to claim asylum (mostly fraudulently)

 

[Derec]

This approach would mean they would be dead of old age before the applications were processed.

What's the alternative? Let them into the country so they can live all their lives inside US before their claim is rejected?
"Asylum" has become a way to facilitate illegal immigration. That has been going on for years in Europe. Every economic migrant from places like Pakistan, Bangladesh or Nigeria claims "asylum" even though the real reason is that his family sent him to Europe so he can send remittances back. It's an investment. The smugglers may charge 10k Euros but once their son is in the EU, between social services and a job they can send that money back several times over back to their family over the years.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Everyone can see through you re-framing the issue with straw men, Derec. We all read the tweets by Trump and know about the people in charge of the asylum seekers. We heard about the drinking out of toilets and know about the deaths of kids. You can keep re-framing it, but we see through that.

It's not straw men, it's getting to the underlying issue, which is the huge numbers of mass migrants who showed up at the border in recent months.
I agree that they should be treated humanely, but that is just the band aid and will not solve the underlying problem.

President Trump grew frustrated with lawmakers Thursday in the Oval Office when they discussed protecting immigrants from Haiti, El Salvador and African countries as part of a bipartisan immigration deal, according to several people briefed on the meeting.

"Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers.

Trump then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries such as Norway, whose prime minister he met with Wednesday. The president, according to a White House official, also suggested he would be open to more immigrants from Asian countries because he felt that they help the United States economically.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1ac729add94_story.html?utm_term=.7aec42780fbe

 

[laughing dog]

That is due to huge influx of so-called "asylum seekers" at the border.

That's a reason to slow down the process?

No, but having a huge influx leads to slowdowns.
I have seen no evidence they decreased the rate of processing. It's just that on relative terms, it appears slower when you have a large number of people who want to claim asylum (mostly fraudulently)

Repeating a falsehood does not make it truer, no matter what Goebbels said.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

The concentration camps = business as usual, nothing new here.

Everyone can see through you re-framing the issue with straw men, Derec. We all read the tweets by Trump and know about the people in charge of the asylum seekers. We heard about the drinking out of toilets and know about the deaths of kids. You can keep re-framing it, but we see through that.

It's not straw men, it's getting to the underlying issue, which is the huge numbers of mass migrants who showed up at the border in recent months.

I agree that they should be treated humanely, but that is just the band aid and will not solve the underlying problem.

Yesterday on NPR there was a guest, book author, whose claim is that all the current horrors at these "concentration camps" began (evolved) decades ago, at least back to the 90s, as there was increasing need to try to discourage economic refugees from showing up as asylum-seekers.

(I didn't get through all the earlier posts -- Am I duplicating someone earlier?) The book is:

Sand and Blood: America's Stealth War on the Mexico Border
By John Carlos Frey

https://www.politics-prose.com/book/9781568588476

(note the word "stealth" in the title)

Since this was on NPR, I doubt that this author is a Trump supporter or right-wing anti-immigrant crusader.

If he's correct, all the current accusations against the officials running these camps go far back, through several previous Administrations. He said the culture of insulting the migrants, using ethnic slurs, letting the kids go hungry, deplorable conditions -- all of it -- has been the de facto policy of the government (not official, but in practice) and has been done intentionally as a long-term practice from far back. The agents have intentionally adopted this approach and speak frankly about it among themselves.

They adopted these policies, of deliberately abusing the migrants, to discourage them, or punish them, hoping it would "send a message" back to other prospective asylum-seekers who might be planning to come. The message to them is that they will have to pay a price, by suffering the inhumane treatment, so they should think twice about making the trip.

Probably all of this is going to continue, no matter what, despite the speech-making etc.

Including employment of the cheap labor, which is good for the economy, and which will be disrupted from time to time by random raids at work sites, for the symbolism.

 

[angelo]

President Trump grew frustrated with lawmakers Thursday in the Oval Office when they discussed protecting immigrants from Haiti, El Salvador and African countries as part of a bipartisan immigration deal, according to several people briefed on the meeting.

"Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers.

Trump then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries such as Norway, whose prime minister he met with Wednesday. The president, according to a White House official, also suggested he would be open to more immigrants from Asian countries because he felt that they help the United States economically.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1ac729add94_story.html?utm_term=.7aec42780fbe

Wanting what's best for American interests is bad policy?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Best for American Interests

 

[PyramidHead]

President Trump grew frustrated with lawmakers Thursday in the Oval Office when they discussed protecting immigrants from Haiti, El Salvador and African countries as part of a bipartisan immigration deal, according to several people briefed on the meeting.

"Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers.

Trump then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries such as Norway, whose prime minister he met with Wednesday. The president, according to a White House official, also suggested he would be open to more immigrants from Asian countries because he felt that they help the United States economically.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1ac729add94_story.html?utm_term=.7aec42780fbe

Wanting what's best for American interests is bad policy?

 

[ZiprHead]

That is due to huge influx of so-called "asylum seekers" at the border.

That's a reason to slow down the process?

No, but having a huge influx leads to slowdowns.

Why? The forms are the same, the process hasn't changed. Why would more people in the line cause the processor to slow down? That makes no sense.

I have seen no evidence they decreased the rate of processing. It's just that on relative terms, it appears slower when you have a large number of people who want to claim asylum (mostly fraudulently)

And you would be wrong again.

Trump Administration Is ‘Slowing the Asylum Process to Discourage Applicants,’ Says Official

U.S. agents are deliberately limiting asylum applications along the border with Mexico because the Trump administration believes allowing too many migrants to apply would encourage more to come, a Customs and Border Protection official is said to have admitted to Congress this month. Jud Murdock, CBP’s acting assistant commissioner, said in a closed congressional briefing that CBP had chosen to limit the number of asylum-seekers at ports of entry because “[t]he more we process, the more will come,” BuzzFeed News reports. Officials have previously said the act of metering—when officials limit the number of individuals who can make asylum claims at ports of entry per day—was due to issues such as a lack of detention space and personnel. But Murdock’s comments suggest the asylum process is being purposely slowed up to discourage applicants.

 

[Derec]

And you would be wrong again.

Trump Administration Is ‘Slowing the Asylum Process to Discourage Applicants,’ Says Official

I did not know that, but it makes sense. The last thing US needs is for more migrants to be encouraged to come. Already mass migrants from places as far as Bangladesh are coming to the southern border to engage is asscam.

Surge Of Bangladeshi Migrants With Bogus Passports Causing US To Rely On Dental Exams

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That is due to huge influx of so-called "asylum seekers" at the border.

That's a reason to slow down the process?

No, but having a huge influx leads to slowdowns.
I have seen no evidence they decreased the rate of processing. It's just that on relative terms, it appears slower when you have a large number of people who want to claim asylum (mostly fraudulently)

No. A huge influx could increase the wait time, it would do nothing to slow down the processing. What happened is that His Flatulence instituted a deliberate policy of slow-rolling things. Take a few applicants per day.

 

[KeepTalking]

And you would be wrong again.

Trump Administration Is ‘Slowing the Asylum Process to Discourage Applicants,’ Says Official

I did not know that, but it makes sense. The last thing US needs is for more migrants to be encouraged to come. Already mass migrants from places as far as Bangladesh are coming to the southern border to engage is asscam.

Surge Of Bangladeshi Migrants With Bogus Passports Causing US To Rely On Dental Exams

Bangladeshis with asscams you say? Wouldn't rectal exams be more appropriate for finding them out?