Immigrants being dropped off? PUT THEM TO WORK, Dumb-Dumb!

[scombrid]

Just need to make sure that no rich person or corporation has to pay any tax. That will fox everything.

 

[Politesse]

being your usual xenophobic crap

??? Could you provide an example of my “usual xenophobic crap”?

"Immigrants"

Moving along. Please make your actual point if you have one, I'm out of smelling salts and cannot revive you from the classic conservative feigned-stupor-of-offense.

 

[TSwizzle]

being your usual xenophobic crap

??? Could you provide an example of my “usual xenophobic crap”?

"Immigrants"

Nope, there is nothing xenophobic about the word immigrants whether it’s “immigrants”, immigrants or (immigrants).

Anyway, more fool me for thinking there was a conversation but you revert to your typical name calling shtick.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Addressing the various points:

1) The ones being shipped around aren't illegals, they're asylum applicants. Is there an economic incentive to come here? Sure, but most asylum applicants are from places we shouldn't be shipping them back to.

2) Minimum wage--I have long favored abolishing it. It's far more politics than reality (it's set about at the market clearing price or sometimes even below) and to the extent it actually does something it causes unemployment. Want to actually help workers? Crack down on a bunch of abusive labor practices. Make one-party recording the law of the land and do not let employers ban recording other than in sensitive contexts. Proven wage theft gets the employee 10x the stolen wages, a proven ongoing pattern of wage theft gives the employee a rebuttable presumption that it persisted for the duration of their employment and a proven ongoing pattern of a class of workers gets a rebuttable presumption that it happened to all such workers. With the prevalence of e-mail these days require that schedules be sent by e-mail at least one week in advance (exception: event-based work scheduled close in.)

3) Cracking down on employers--horrible idea until we can adequately deal with identity theft. Crack down and instead of working under the table they'll steal an identity and work under that. That's a bigger headache for Americans.

4) Locking up employers--even worse as it will make employers not want to hire those who appear Hispanic. Of course the right would like that.

5) Shutting down sweatshops--the hard part is identifying them.

6) Why is a strike even on this list??

7) The only reason I see that independent contractors are even on this list is that it's far easier to work illegally as an independent. One piece of paper to fill out, no verification. However, there's a bigger factor here--an employee rarely gets to deduct any unreimbursed work-related expense. We have had a long string of stealth tax increases in the form of moving things from non-taxed to taxed-but-deductible while making fewer and fewer people actually itemize to take those deductions. This makes independent status a win-win for many people--the boss has far less to deal with and the worker gets to actually deduct (including against FICA, something that never happens with an employee) their expenses, including some that they wouldn't otherwise get. The flip side is no unemployment insurance--not that big a deal for a good worker. It's especially useful with dispersed workforces as otherwise they would be complying with the rules of many places, not just locally.

 

[Politesse]

being your usual xenophobic crap

??? Could you provide an example of my “usual xenophobic crap”?

"Immigrants"

Nope, there is nothing xenophobic about the word immigrants whether it’s “immigrants”, immigrants or (immigrants).

Anyway, more fool me for thinking there was a conversation but you revert to your typical name calling shtick.

I apologize for implying you were xenophobic.

You are not xenophobic.

You love foreigners.

Please, get back to the topic of the thread? I still haven't figured out what point you thought you were making.

 

[TSwizzle]

I apologize for implying you were xenophobic.

You didn’t imply I was xenophobic, you flat out called me xenophobic and also said I am usually xenophobic.

 

[Politesse]

I apologize for implying you were xenophobic.

You didn’t imply I was xenophobic, you flat out called me xenophobic and also said I am usually xenophobic.

I am sorry. You are not xenophobic.

Please return to your point.

 

[steve_bank]

The asylum laws involved were meant for limited political refugees, not for wholesale migration.

Regardless we are not equipped to handle an endless flow of thousands of people per month. most with little education, skills, and language.

Xenophobic? Interpreted as dislike of outsiders Chinese in Chinatown can be xenophobic. As can orthodox Jews and Italians, Japanese.

Or politically correct progressive culture says whites are racists and xenophobic, everybody else have no faults.

 

[Politesse]

Regardless we are not equipped to handle an endless flow of thousands of people per month. most with little education, skills, and language.

Xenophobia is an irrational fear and dislike of foreigners.

 

[bilby]

Regardless we are not equipped to handle an endless flow of thousands of people per month. most with little education, skills, and language.

Xenophobia is an irrational fear and dislike of foreigners.

Indeed.

And the US was equipped to handle a continuous flow of an average of over 16,000 people per month, for 62 years, Just at the single facility at Ellis Island, from 1892 to 1954, at a time when the USA was smaller, poorer, and had worse transportation facilities. And this was almost all done without the benefit of electronics or computers.

Of course the consequences were dire; The US went from being a global superpower with a booming economy, to being an agrarian backwater ignored by the great European imperial powers, as a result of this influx of migrants. Oh, wait, it was the opposite way about, 1954 came after 1892. My mistake.

The claim Steve is making here is demonstrably and factually wrong. The US is easily equipped to handle thousands of new immigrants per month indefinitely; The only question is whether they want to or not.

 

[Politesse]

The asylum laws involved were meant for limited political refugees, not for wholesale migration.

And this is utter nonsense. Our present system was created by the passage of the Refugee Act of 1980, which raised the limit of permitted asylum seekers to 50,000 and changed the definition of asylum to better reflect the United Nation's resolution on the same. The major motivator was an enormous influx of refugees fleeing the wars we had exacerbated in Southeast Asia, and this was made very explicit by the framers of the bill: we were opening our doors wider, on purpose. It passed with unanimous consent in the Senate. The entire point was to accept thousands more per year, and program has been a considerable success over the past forty years, saving hundreds of thousands of lives and bringing considerable material prosperity to our nation, which is among the wealthiest and most powerful countries on the planet. Not despite our cultural and linguistic diversity, or our young and constantly renewed and revitalized population, but because of it.

Spanish is the second most common primary language on the planet, and it is also easily the second most commonly spoken language here in the United States. Fearing or distrusting people who speak it isn't just irrational, it's ridiculous and counter-productive. Show me a company with a staff of monolingual English speakers, and I'll show you a company that only does local business. Si dices de tu prójimo “o se va él o voy yo”, vaya con Dios.

 

[Ford]

Show me a company with a staff of monolingual English speakers, and I'll show you a company that only does local business.

And in certain parts of the country, those that do local business do it in Spanish. I lived in southern New Mexico and El Paso for years. The best places to eat were often the little "hole in the wall" Mexican restaurants where you placed your order in Spanish.

Nowadays, I work for a tech company based in San Francisco, and the level of diversity would absolutely terrify some of the people in the lily-white town where I grew up. Of course there's plenty of Asian Americans (with names like Tan, Lau, Nguyen, Chu, etc.), most of the managers in my department are women, and when I went through the interview process for my upcoming job, only one of the people I talked to was a white, straight male.

The "Make America Great Again" crowd doesn't want that. "Wait...your boss is a woman? And she's black?" Yes. She's awesome. And a few months from now my boss will be a black immigrant. To my mind, this is what makes America great. Not Lumpy's dream of sending migrants who show up on these shores into camps where they can work for half as much as everyone else, but welcoming people who may not have names like "Smith" or "Jones" but have worth that can enrich our society.

 

[Patooka]

So from what I can gather the OP's "logic" is "let's do the exact same thing we did during the 80s and 90s and wish very hard for a different outcome".

Brilliant.

 

[TV and credit cards]

And in certain parts of the country, those that do local business do it in Spanish. I lived in southern New Mexico and El Paso for years. The best places to eat were often the little "hole in the wall" Mexican restaurants where you placed your order in Spanish.

Nowadays, I work for a tech company based in San Francisco, and the level of diversity would absolutely terrify some of the people in the lily-white town where I grew up. Of course there's plenty of Asian Americans (with names like Tan, Lau, Nguyen, Chu, etc.), most of the managers in my department are women, and when I went through the interview process for my upcoming job, only one of the people I talked to was a white, straight male.

The "Make America Great Again" crowd doesn't want that. "Wait...your boss is a woman? And she's black?" Yes. She's awesome. And a few months from now my boss will be a black immigrant. To my mind, this is what makes America great. Not Lumpy's dream of sending migrants who show up on these shores into camps where they can work for half as much as everyone else, but welcoming people who may not have names like "Smith" or "Jones" but have worth that can enrich our society.

We'd have this issue come up from time to time in the navy. Someone bitching about conversations being carried on in Spanish or Tagalog. Every time the Navy Regs would be pulled out to show the aggrieved party that not only can personal conversations be carried on in the workplace in whatever language desired, business can be conducted in such a manner. The regulations is to effect, whatever gets the job done. Maraming salamat sa pakikinig.

While in the navy, I never fully appreciated that military government that operated within our democracy, one that doesn't do polling. A government free to ignore the collective ignorance of the governed. One made up by and large of responsible adults who singularly made decisions that affected hundreds or thousands under their command.

 

[steve_bank]

The estimated number of border crossings this year is 1.9 million people.

 

[laughing dog]

The estimated number of border crossings this year is 1.9 million people.

Is there a point? I know US citizens who enter the US multiple times in a year.

 

[TomC]

The estimated number of border crossings this year is 1.9 million people.

Meaning what?
Are you suggesting 1.9 million illegal immigrants? That's kinda dumb.
Tom

 

[TSwizzle]

These right wing xenophobes have no shame;

The migrant crisis is getting so hard for New York City to handle that Mayor Eric Adams sees a policy that could send thousands of people into the streets, many with nowhere to sleep and nowhere to work, as his next best move.

News

 

[steve_bank]

More illustration of the nature of our problem, an inability on the left to look at the numbers objectively, and the impact of such large numbers.

Along the bred people are sleeping in the streets, there is no place for them to shelter.

1.9 million people with little English, education, and skills. Wherever they end up they will be wards of the state. Unaccompanied kids, single parents.

Like I sad how about your backyard? Higher taxes to for schools in your district to deal wit unplanned for non English speaking kids? Hospital costs, ER costs where people without insurance tend to go.

People living on your downtown streets?

The problem is people believe that once they get across the border the odds are they are home free. They don't evade border patrol, they find them. I'm here, give me something to eat, a place to stay, and educate my kids.

It is an insane situation. Congress is responsible for immigration.

It is like debating theists.

 

[TomC]

1.9 million people with little English, education, and skills. Wherever they end up they will be wards of the state. Unaccompanied kids, single parents.

That's completely bullshit.
Tom