Is a vaccine mandate a racist policy?

[Metaphor]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

I take it you're obsessively fixating on Toni's (alleged) position because you've realized how stupid and melodramatic your argument sounds when applied to any real mandate policies that have been enacted?

It is not her alleged position; she detailed her policy (excepting the stop condition) earlier.

Whilst I find her policy beyond the pale and beyond what a majority would currently support, at least in America, it was only December last year that Biden said he did not see himself supporting a vaccine mandate.

And, no. I do not believe that indefinite house arrest policies are outside the Overton window. Indeed, Toni's idea seems quite popular on this board.

 

[Toni]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

I take it you're obsessively fixating on Toni's (alleged) position because you've realized how stupid and melodramatic your argument sounds when applied to any real mandate policies that have been enacted?

I think he just makes up stuff about me in order to draw me into a ‘discussion.’ I’m actually busy this week and I see no reason to play games with him.

 

[Toni]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

I take it you're obsessively fixating on Toni's (alleged) position because you've realized how stupid and melodramatic your argument sounds when applied to any real mandate policies that have been enacted?

I think he just makes up stuff about me in order to draw me into a ‘discussion.’ I’m actually busy this week and I see no reason to play games with him.

 

[Metaphor]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

I take it you're obsessively fixating on Toni's (alleged) position because you've realized how stupid and melodramatic your argument sounds when applied to any real mandate policies that have been enacted?

I think he just makes up stuff about me in order to draw me into a ‘discussion.’ I’m actually busy this week and I see no reason to play games with him.

I made up nothing. You described your vaccine mandate policy, not me.

 

[Keith&Co.]

.

Do you believe that the 40% unvaxxed in the US ram vaccination clinics with their cars?

I do realize there are those who cannot be vaccinated.
They stay in their homes, practice social distancing, use no-contact
delivery, work remote, because they are at risk if they do not, at least until we lower the chance they'll contact an infectious person.
there are some who choose not to vax, and sldo practice social distancing, stay home, etc, accepting that there are risks and not wishing to be a plague rat.
and there are those who do not vax, do not mask, do not social distance, willfully being highways for the plague, because Fuck Biden, or Fuck the libs, or Fuck Fauci, or due to any of dozens of vonspiracy theories.
i do not know the split, but if a policy such as a mandate inconveniences the unvaxxed, two of these three groups do not face any additional inconvenienes beyond what they already face.
the third group may face inconveniences, and whine about being victimized, but they are actually the aggressors.

 

[KeepTalking]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

Stop being dramatic, you weren't attacked. Your mischaracterization and strawmanning were simply pointed out.

 

[KeepTalking]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

I take it you're obsessively fixating on Toni's (alleged) position because you've realized how stupid and melodramatic your argument sounds when applied to any real mandate policies that have been enacted?

it was only December last year that Biden said he did not see himself supporting a vaccine mandate.

The first vaccines were not even given in the US until Dec 14th, and at that time only the most vulnerable could get them. So, Biden's comments came either before the first person received the vaccine, or while we had just started the first round of vaccines. That would be at a point when we would not have known the extent of vaccine hesitancy in the US.

 

[ZiprHead]

Of course

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

You might be surprised. The more that the stupid die or bury their loved ones, the less the remaining 'American people' are going to tolerate rotbloods.

I don't know what you think a 'rotblood' is, but you appear to attribute genuine malice to people who do not want to be vaccinated.

When the rotbloods try to run over people at vaccine sites and disrupt testing centers, overturning tables, do they not deserve malics?

 

[ZiprHead]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

Did you look?

Did I look? Do you mean, did I read dozens of articles from left-wing media, and from left-wing pundits on Twitter, demonising and infantilising and wishing pain and harm on the unvaxxed? Yes, I looked and I saw.

Really? What were the dates of those articles that make you think the malice came from the pro-vax side first?

 

[ZiprHead]

As to the other, i really do perceive malice from people who ram vaccination clinics with their cars.

Do you believe that the 40% unvaxxed in the US ram vaccination clinics with their cars?

What percentage of the pro-vax do anything like that?

 

[Metaphor]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

Stop being dramatic, you weren't attacked. Your mischaracterization and strawmanning were simply pointed out.

But it was not a mischaracterisation: that's the point. There is a consistent pattern on this board from certain actors who dispute (from their perspective) any definitional anomaly.

For example, laughing dog attacked me because he did not think Toni's house arrest policy was 'indefinite' according to a second denotation of 'indefinite'. laughing dog's mindset must be on attack mode all the time. Who could think that something that fully satisfies the first definition of a word cannot be described by that word if it fails to fit some other definitions? I doubt even laughing dog thinks something like that. He was desperate to get a point against me.

And it seems he succeeded, because now you are calling my description of Toni's house arrest policy as 'indefinite' a 'straw man'.

 

[Metaphor]

As to the other, i really do perceive malice from people who ram vaccination clinics with their cars.

Do you believe that the 40% unvaxxed in the US ram vaccination clinics with their cars?

What percentage of the pro-vax do anything like that?

I don't know. I'm not proposing indefinite house arrest and group culpability for the vaccinated.

 

[Metaphor]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

Did you look?

Did I look? Do you mean, did I read dozens of articles from left-wing media, and from left-wing pundits on Twitter, demonising and infantilising and wishing pain and harm on the unvaxxed? Yes, I looked and I saw.

Really? What were the dates of those articles that make you think the malice came from the pro-vax side first?

Shift those goalposts. I did not say 'the left started it', though in some cases I imagine they did.

 

[Metaphor]

Of course

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

You might be surprised. The more that the stupid die or bury their loved ones, the less the remaining 'American people' are going to tolerate rotbloods.

I don't know what you think a 'rotblood' is, but you appear to attribute genuine malice to people who do not want to be vaccinated.

When the rotbloods try to run over people at vaccine sites and disrupt testing centers, overturning tables, do they not deserve malics?

I don't know what a rotblood is. The people who run over people and disrupt vaccine sites on purpose deserve to have criminal charges laid on them.

 

[ZiprHead]

As to the other, i really do perceive malice from people who ram vaccination clinics with their cars.

Do you believe that the 40% unvaxxed in the US ram vaccination clinics with their cars?

What percentage of the pro-vax do anything like that?

I don't know. I'm not proposing indefinite house arrest and group culpability for the vaccinated.

That has nothing to do with the question.

 

[ZiprHead]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

Did you look?

Did I look? Do you mean, did I read dozens of articles from left-wing media, and from left-wing pundits on Twitter, demonising and infantilising and wishing pain and harm on the unvaxxed? Yes, I looked and I saw.

Really? What were the dates of those articles that make you think the malice came from the pro-vax side first?

Shift those goalposts. I did not say 'the left started it', though in some cases I imagine they did.

No? So when you said this:

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

it sure sounded like you did.

 

[Metaphor]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

Did you look?

Did I look? Do you mean, did I read dozens of articles from left-wing media, and from left-wing pundits on Twitter, demonising and infantilising and wishing pain and harm on the unvaxxed? Yes, I looked and I saw.

Really? What were the dates of those articles that make you think the malice came from the pro-vax side first?

Shift those goalposts. I did not say 'the left started it', though in some cases I imagine they did.

No? So when you said this:

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

it sure sounded like you did.

I'm sorry ZiprHead, but your reading comprehension difficulties do not change reality. Saying that the left has been vindictive and hateful and condescending says nothing about whether they 'started it'.

 

[ZiprHead]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

Did you look?

Did I look? Do you mean, did I read dozens of articles from left-wing media, and from left-wing pundits on Twitter, demonising and infantilising and wishing pain and harm on the unvaxxed? Yes, I looked and I saw.

Really? What were the dates of those articles that make you think the malice came from the pro-vax side first?

Shift those goalposts. I did not say 'the left started it', though in some cases I imagine they did.

No? So when you said this:

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

it sure sounded like you did.

I'm sorry ZiprHead, but your reading comprehension difficulties do not change reality. Saying that the left has been vindictive and hateful and condescending says nothing about whether they 'started it'.

You're big on choosing your own interpretations so I will too.

Or are you admitting the left didn't start it?

 

[Metaphor]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

Did you look?

Did I look? Do you mean, did I read dozens of articles from left-wing media, and from left-wing pundits on Twitter, demonising and infantilising and wishing pain and harm on the unvaxxed? Yes, I looked and I saw.

Really? What were the dates of those articles that make you think the malice came from the pro-vax side first?

Shift those goalposts. I did not say 'the left started it', though in some cases I imagine they did.

No? So when you said this:

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

it sure sounded like you did.

I'm sorry ZiprHead, but your reading comprehension difficulties do not change reality. Saying that the left has been vindictive and hateful and condescending says nothing about whether they 'started it'.

You're big on choosing your own interpretations so I will too.

Or are you admitting the left didn't start it?

I am "admitting" that I never said or implied that "the left started it", I am agnostic on the causal chain.

 

[Keith&Co.]

You're big on choosing your own interpretations so I will too.

Or are you admitting the left didn't start it?

It's yet another rabbit hole to head down to avoid dealing with any substantial issues he's ignoring.