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Is Crypto dying or just dropping for the moment?

That's strange because I swear I've already acknowledged the damage bitcoin mining does. You seem to have an issue with my pointing out that the dollar suffers the same. Do you think I'm using whataboutism to white knight for bitcoin? That's the only thing that makes sense.

I do, because you are.

The dollar, like other modern fiat currencies issued by nation states, has a minuscule environmental footprint. Saying it 'suffers the same' suggests strongly that you have zero clue just how unimaginably huge the difference is.

Ok so let me get this straight. Large energy-burning supercomputers being used to get bitcoin is different from large swaths of land being dug up for coal to get dollars, deforestation to make paper to get dollars, and the whole oil industry needed to support everyone's grind to get dollars is different. That's cool.
 
That's strange because I swear I've already acknowledged the damage bitcoin mining does. You seem to have an issue with my pointing out that the dollar suffers the same. Do you think I'm using whataboutism to white knight for bitcoin? That's the only thing that makes sense.

I do, because you are.

The dollar, like other modern fiat currencies issued by nation states, has a minuscule environmental footprint. Saying it 'suffers the same' suggests strongly that you have zero clue just how unimaginably huge the difference is.

Ok so let me get this straight. Large energy-burning supercomputers being used to get bitcoin is different from large swaths of land being dug up for coal to get dollars, deforestation to make paper to get dollars, and the whole oil industry needed to support everyone's grind to get dollars is different. That's cool.
Dollars are not made of coal, Most dollars are not even made of paper, and these that are, are not made of wood paper.
I don't know how much US spends on replacing worn out bills but it's not much. I do think that everyone should switch to plastic banknotes. They last much longer. I doubt one banknote costs more than couple of cents.

whereas mining one bitcoin costs about one bitcoin in dollars.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12771.htm
6 cents for $1 bill
and 14 cents for $100
 
Ok so let me get this straight. Large energy-burning supercomputers being used to get bitcoin is different from large swaths of land being dug up for coal to get dollars, deforestation to make paper to get dollars, and the whole oil industry needed to support everyone's grind to get dollars is different. That's cool.
Dollars are not made of coal, Most dollars are not even made of paper, and these that are, are not made of wood paper.
I don't know how much US spends on replacing worn out bills but it's not much. I do think that everyone should switch to plastic banknotes. They last much longer. I doubt one banknote costs more than couple of cents.

whereas mining one bitcoin costs about one bitcoin in dollars.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12771.htm
6 cents for $1 bill
and 14 cents for $100

That's what it costs to make a dollar. But what does it cost for "a dollar" to live it's life? What is the material cost, entirely, of transmitting one dollar once? What is the material cost of transmitting one dollar worth of a Proof of Stake coin quantity equivalent to a dollar?

What is the food cost of carrying dollars and adding their weight to my person?

What is the gasoline cost?

What cost for this one physical dollar accounts to armored car services, rifle rounds? How much is the cost of the hands being paid to usher this dollar to me, in both their own personal time, and their food costs for doing it, and for getting there to do it divided by the number of dollars to change hands? What is the cost of building the banks over the number of dollars that they transact? And of tellers, and of credit reporting agencies?

How much actual hidden infrastructure are you ignoring because you just want to stare at the tip of a dollar shaped iceberg?

There's a massive amount of our world eaten by cash infrastructure. Sure, Bitcoin has a bunch of nameless faceless servers generating heat... And cash has a bunch of people burning heat all slaving over the exchange of dollars. That one dollar to live just a single transaction is going to be some percentage of a dollar. There's a number that can be attached as the "average transactional cost".

For both fiat cash currencies and Proof of Work cryptocurrencies, that number is high. For Proof of Stake currencies that number is lower than the lowest average transactional cost associated with the cheapest form of electronic credit transaction: I push a button, a small signal goes out, and then it's finalized onto the ledger, and because there is no such busywork in Stake based crypto it just gets filed with all the other transactions without hassle or work. No metal boxes, no trucks, no physical wallets, no dollars in pockets, no mining or minting metal into coins, no credit reporting bureaus, no ACH, no balance confirmations. Merely everyone who needs to know I spent money at gets a notification that money got spent into their pockets.
 
Ahh, I see my error. bibly is talking about the production of money. Printing process only? And, not the distribution & the supporting infrastructure. I was also including other elements such as the means (like mining coal) to earn the ends (currency) which wouldn't exclude bitcoin if it became widely used. I get it now.
 
Ahh, I see my error. bibly is talking about the production of money. Printing process only? And, not the distribution & the supporting infrastructure. I was also including other elements such as the means (like mining coal) to earn the ends (currency) which wouldn't exclude bitcoin if it became widely used. I get it now.

There is a metric between these that is more appropriate. Most of everything every person everywhere does is unfortunately tied to acquiring currency.

"The mouth of Mammon is wide, and often you cannot tell you are in it until he swallows."

However if we are talking about some useful way of looking at it, it would have to be "average of energy expenditure associated with the act of spending 'a dollar's worth'" of currency.

Neither figure captures that.
 
It is profitable in the same way Ponzi/Pyramid/Tulip schemes are profitable.

So what if it is, why does that matter to you ? Why does it get you so riled up ? People (speculators) are making bank off it right now. The bubble may pop later but so what ? Does it affect you in any way ?

People directly exchange actual money for greenhouse gases, and they don't even claim these gases, they are simply released into the atmosphere.

This seems like a red herring to me. You just don't like Bitcoin for whatever reason. Fine, don't use it.

I agree, government should simply outright ban this nonsense, 200% tax on all operation with cryptocurrencies

What other things do you dislike should get on the ban list ?

Don't answer that, it's a rhetorical question.
 
So what if it is, why does that matter to you ? Why does it get you so riled up ? People (speculators) are making bank off it right now. The bubble may pop later but so what ? Does it affect you in any way ?
Global warming affects everyone, even these who deny it.
This seems like a red herring to me. You just don't like Bitcoin for whatever reason. Fine, don't use it.
I stated my reasons quite clearly.
I agree, government should simply outright ban this nonsense, 200% tax on all operation with cryptocurrencies

What other things do you dislike should get on the ban list ?
I dislike stupid people.
 
Ahh, I see my error. bibly is talking about the production of money. Printing process only? And, not the distribution & the supporting infrastructure. I was also including other elements such as the means (like mining coal) to earn the ends (currency) which wouldn't exclude bitcoin if it became widely used. I get it now.
Electronic money cost virtually nothing. Visa/Mastercard wants you to believe otherwise of course.
 
It certainly looks like the wind has been taken out of the cryptocurrency sails (or in to its sales);

The digital currency was down more than 30% on the day to $30,015.02, according to Coin Metrics. It hit as low as $30,001.51 as the selling intensified Wednesday morning. The cryptocurrency hasn’t traded below $30,000 since late January. Wednesday’s decline extended bitcoin’s loss for the past week to more than 40%. That means bitcoin has now erased all its gains following Tesla’s announcement that it would purchase $1.5 billion worth of the cryptocurrency. It’s also down more than 50% since hitting a record high of $64,829 in mid-April.

NBC

What Musk giveth, Musk has taketh away.
 
The crypto mining craze has made GPU cards extremely expensive. If you can get ahold of cards at MSRP, you can make a killing on Amazon or eBay.

If you want to build a gaming rig, too bad, so sad for you.
 
The crypto mining craze has made GPU cards extremely expensive. If you can get ahold of cards at MSRP, you can make a killing on Amazon or eBay.

If you want to build a gaming rig, too bad, so sad for you.

Eh, this can wait til the craze blows over.
 
That's strange because I swear I've already acknowledged the damage bitcoin mining does. You seem to have an issue with my pointing out that the dollar suffers the same. Do you think I'm using whataboutism to white knight for bitcoin? That's the only thing that makes sense.

I do, because you are.

The dollar, like other modern fiat currencies issued by nation states, has a minuscule environmental footprint. Saying it 'suffers the same' suggests strongly that you have zero clue just how unimaginably huge the difference is.

Ok so let me get this straight. Large energy-burning supercomputers being used to get bitcoin is different from large swaths of land being dug up for coal to get dollars, deforestation to make paper to get dollars, and the whole oil industry needed to support everyone's grind to get dollars is different. That's cool.

Dollars don't require these activities on any significant scale. So yes, very different.

If the Fed decides tomorrow to add $1Trillion to the number of US$ in circulation, the energy expenditure to make that happen is less than was required to make this post. No coal needs to be mined, no paper milled (you do know that most of the dollars in circulation aren't represented by paper bills, right?).
 
Ahh, I see my error. bibly is talking about the production of money. Printing process only? And, not the distribution & the supporting infrastructure. I was also including other elements such as the means (like mining coal) to earn the ends (currency) which wouldn't exclude bitcoin if it became widely used. I get it now.

Yeah, all the economic activity is the same, and therefore not a point of difference, regardless of what currency is used, dollars, bitcoins, gold bars, quatloos - the only difference is in the energy needs of the initial production process - mining for gold or bitcoin, imagining for dollars or quatloos. Imagining money uses a lot less energy than mining.
 
So let's look at the historical volatility of Bitcoin.

coindesk-BTC-chart-2021-05-19.jpg

Oh wait... that is the last 24 hours, where it's value at one point dropped 25%, and then spikes up about 12%! Yeah, I want to work for money that does that sort of stuff!
 

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Yeah, all the economic activity is the same, and therefore not a point of difference, regardless of what currency is used, dollars, bitcoins, gold bars, quatloos -

Not quatloos. They are tied to fixed numbers of Tribble pelts.
 
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