January 6 Hearings Live

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Trump did not create it the antigovernment sentiment nor did Obama.

You have to go back to Ronny Raygun to find the first simmerings of government hatred.

 

[ZiprHead]

Just heard that 20 million people watched last night. Fox News barely gets six million on its best night.

Last night. Faux did not air the hearings.

Faux Noise - 2.957 million viewers
CNN - 2.617 million viewers
MSNBC - 4.161 million viewers

Source -Yahoo News
No numbers reported for C-Span or NPR. Nor Faux Bizness.

NBC News is reporting 20 million per Neilson ratings.

 

[ZiprHead]

Jan. 6 hearings: Rep. Scott Perry calls claim he sought Trump pardon a 'soulless lie'

Rep. Scott Perry wrote on social media that anyone claiming he sought a presidential pardon was telling a "soulless lie."

www.foxnews.com

Rep. Scott Perry, R-Pa., reacted Friday to claims he requested pardons for unspecified involvement in the Jan. 6 riot at the White House.

Perry said anyone claiming he made such a request for himself or anyone else was telling a "soulless lie."

"The notion that I ever sought a Presidential pardon for myself or other Members of Congress is an absolute, shameless, and soulless lie," Perry said on social media Friday.

He's going to look pretty silly when the reciepts are shown.

 

[Copernicus]

They did a very good job of making that case in the first session.

I agree. That was an impressive amount of new and unsurprising evidence of intent IMO. Made me keep thinking “If we know this shit went down with such certainty, why are these clowns still walking around posing a menace?”

A lot of it hinged on the material from the documentary flim maker, who was embedded with the Proud Boys and had access to details on their deep involvement with planning the attack in coordination with Trump's January 6 rally.

 

[Toni]

Trump did not create it the antigovernment sentiment nor did Obama.

You have to go back to Ronny Raygun to find the first simmerings of government hatred.

No, it was before that. Reagan just used his skills as an actor to make it folksy and cute.

To be honest, our country was founded in part on antigovernment sentiments: we overthrew the British, ‘frontiered’ ( by stealing other people’s land and doing our darndest to exterminate them, and homesteaded in part using slave labor. We all came together for WW I & II and The Great Depression and to lesser degrees during the Cold War, Korea, Viet Nam. 9/11 gave us somewhere to direct our dissatisfaction and angst. That seems to have worn off and now we are too stupid to recognize that our country is being destroyed by disingmfirnation, ignorance and bigotry, helped along by the GOP policy of undermining education at every turn.

 

[Rhea]

I missed the Ivanka Trump testimony last night. I saw it today. I thought for sure she was about to breakout in the song Let It Go. She looked like a computer animation.

There’s a term in animation and game design called the
Uncanny Valley

The uncanny valley is a common unsettling feeling people experience when androids (humanoid robots) and audio/visual simulations closely resemble humans in many respects but are not quite convincingly realistic.

In aesthetics, the uncanny valley is a hypothesized relation between an object's degree of resemblance to a human being and the emotional response to the object.

A picture of Ivanka Trump would fit as an illustration for this term.

 

[prideandfall]

I missed the Ivanka Trump testimony last night. I saw it today. I thought for sure she was about to breakout in the song Let It Go. She looked like a computer animation.

There’s a term in animation and game design called the
Uncanny Valley

two quick things:
1. that term originates outside of game design, it's just used in game design to refer to the thing.
(historical side note, the term was created by a japanese robotics professor, and 'uncanny valley' is the english translation of the thing he said published in 1978)

2. i find it a highly amusing to ponder: most things we do unconsciously are the result of evolution, and it had some kind of practical function at some point in the last few million years and our bodies just still do it.
so why does the uncanny valley effect exist? what was it exactly that made it so that humans required a response which made us creeped the fuck out and uncomfortable by something that *looked* more or less human yet we could distinctly tell was not?

 

[bilby]

I missed the Ivanka Trump testimony last night. I saw it today. I thought for sure she was about to breakout in the song Let It Go. She looked like a computer animation.

There’s a term in animation and game design called the
Uncanny Valley

two quick things:
1. that term originates outside of game design, it's just used in game design to refer to the thing.
(historical side note, the term was created by a japanese robotics professor, and 'uncanny valley' is the english translation of the thing he said published in 1978)

2. i find it a highly amusing to ponder: most things we do unconsciously are the result of evolution, and it had some kind of practical function at some point in the last few million years and our bodies just still do it.
so why does the uncanny valley effect exist? what was it exactly that made it so that humans required a response which made us creeped the fuck out and uncomfortable by something that *looked* more or less human yet we could distinctly tell was not?

The humans who were happy to fuck other, very similar, hominids with whom humans are not inter-fertile probably had fewer descendants.

 

[Jarhyn]

I missed the Ivanka Trump testimony last night. I saw it today. I thought for sure she was about to breakout in the song Let It Go. She looked like a computer animation.

There’s a term in animation and game design called the
Uncanny Valley

The uncanny valley is a common unsettling feeling people experience when androids (humanoid robots) and audio/visual simulations closely resemble humans in many respects but are not quite convincingly realistic.

In aesthetics, the uncanny valley is a hypothesized relation between an object's degree of resemblance to a human being and the emotional response to the object.

A picture of Ivanka Trump would fit as an illustration for this term.

Certain people come off that way to me. Ivanka yes, but some other folks have hit me like that, too.

I'm pretty sure all of them have been a fair shake sociopathic.

Then, I also probably come off that way, too.

I missed the Ivanka Trump testimony last night. I saw it today. I thought for sure she was about to breakout in the song Let It Go. She looked like a computer animation.

There’s a term in animation and game design called the
Uncanny Valley

two quick things:
1. that term originates outside of game design, it's just used in game design to refer to the thing.
(historical side note, the term was created by a japanese robotics professor, and 'uncanny valley' is the english translation of the thing he said published in 1978)

2. i find it a highly amusing to ponder: most things we do unconsciously are the result of evolution, and it had some kind of practical function at some point in the last few million years and our bodies just still do it.
so why does the uncanny valley effect exist? what was it exactly that made it so that humans required a response which made us creeped the fuck out and uncomfortable by something that *looked* more or less human yet we could distinctly tell was not?

Hooray hominid racism.

 

[Elixir]

There’s a term in animation and game design called the
Uncanny Valley

I was thinking “uncanny valley” as I watched that clip during the hearing!
Kudos for bringing it up. Which side of the valley are we on when a presumed human too closely resembles an automaton? Or is it “uncanny mountain” when that happens?

 

[Jarhyn]

There’s a term in animation and game design called the
Uncanny Valley

I was thinking “uncanny valley” as I watched that clip during the hearing!
Kudos for bringing it up. Which side of the valley are we on when a presumed human too closely resembles an automaton? Or is it “uncanny mountain” when that happens?

Well, in my mind the uncanny valley is shaped more like a cliff on the near side and a grade on the far side. She is somewhere clinging for dear life on the cliff face near the very bottom, the region of the valley nearest the cliff: so close yet so much further from the top than any to come before her.

 

[Rhea]

1. that term originates outside of game design, it's just used in game design to refer to the thing.
(historical side note, the term was created by a japanese robotics professor, and 'uncanny valley' is the english translation of the thing he said published in 1978)

Cool. Didn’t know that, thanks.

2. i find it a highly amusing to ponder: most things we do unconsciously are the result of evolution, and it had some kind of practical function at some point in the last few million years and our bodies just still do it.
so why does the uncanny valley effect exist? what was it exactly that made it so that humans required a response which made us creeped the fuck out and uncomfortable by something that *looked* more or less human yet we could distinctly tell was not?

My first guess would be rapid detection of dead things (unanimated) rather than non-my-group things (racism). If you can quickly detect a death and want to go away from it, then you are less likely to hang around or investigate a decaying body and acquire disease. So there would be a survival advantage to that.

 

[ZiprHead]

My first guess would be rapid detection of dead things (unanimated) rather than non-my-group things (racism). If you can quickly detect a death and want to go away from it, then you are less likely to hang around or investigate a decaying body and acquire disease. So there would be a survival advantage to that.

So Ivanka is actually dead and stinks to high heaven.

It explains so much.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Jarhyn]

Truth Social? THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

 

[Toni]

My first guess would be rapid detection of dead things (unanimated) rather than non-my-group things (racism). If you can quickly detect a death and want to go away from it, then you are less likely to hang around or investigate a decaying body and acquire disease. So there would be a survival advantage to that.

So Ivanka is actually dead and stinks to high heaven.

It explains so much.

Well, her soul is.

Frankly I waver a lot re: Ivanka. On one hand, she has been raised in incredible financial privilege, largely built on a sham, but also seems to have been raised in a household devoid of what most of us would call love and almost certainly filled with emotional neglect and to an undetermined degree, incestuous use and manipulation by her sociopathic father and frankly, who knows who else. There seems to be some serious Stockholm Syndrome going on. It is hard not to feel some sympathy and even empathy.

On the other hand, she’s a grown ass woman who, one would hope, would have managed to scrape together enough emotional wherewithal to do a much better job of separating herself from her monster of a father. Perhaps she feels incapable of doing that. Perhaps she believes or he really does have horrible evidence to blackmail her into some large degree of compliance. Perhaps she had never realized until daddy came under so much intense scrutiny and he was given so much actual power what an absolute monster he is.

Perhaps she and her spouse took those positions as ‘advisors’ in order to try to mitigate the worst of daddy’s megalomaniac impulses. It seems some of his cabinet did just that. It also appears that all were largely unsuccessful—even taking into account that there surely has been some degree of unfairness in reporting re: Trump. Also, I am
certain, some significant omissions, and a lot that was successfully hidden.

Perhaps she genuinely has no idea how to be a real human being. She may also be a sociopath. Or married to one. Or both. She certainly seems to have had no experience being around anyone we could call remotely emotionally healthy or normal.

She’s probably scared shitless, regardless.

None of which means she’s not corrupt and evil.

 

[southernhybrid]

I thought the committee did an excellent job of presenting the evidence that this insurrection attempt was planned in advance and that Trump was behind it. At least two of the Proud Boys, who got caught up in this mentioned that they believed that Trump was requesting this. Trump is a very successful cult leader, manipulating people to do whatever he commands. If Trump didn't support this, why did it take so long for him to try and stop it, when so many officials begged him to do something. Since this was only the first hearing, I expect there will be a lot more evidence coming out in the rest of these hearings. I plan on watching them all.

The female capital police officer, who's name I can't recall right now, was a fantastic witness. Her courage was outstanding.

It's disgraceful that so many of the Republicans who criticized Trump during the attack on the capital, are now backing off and denying they said what they did. Mark Meadows, I'm looking at you, for one. Power is more important to these people than democracy.

Maybe I'm overly sentimental, but I found it very touching to see a liberal Black male from the Deep South and a conservative White woman from the Northwest, joining together to get to the bottom of what happened on Jan. 6th. Sadly, if the Republicans take back Congress this fall, I doubt that justice will be served. In fact, I have doubts there will be much left of our far less than perfect democracy.

 

[Jarhyn]

My first guess would be rapid detection of dead things (unanimated) rather than non-my-group things (racism). If you can quickly detect a death and want to go away from it, then you are less likely to hang around or investigate a decaying body and acquire disease. So there would be a survival advantage to that.

So Ivanka is actually dead and stinks to high heaven.

It explains so much.

Well, her soul is.

Frankly I waver a lot re: Ivanka. On one hand, she has been raised in incredible financial privilege, largely built on a sham, but also seems to have been raised in a household devoid of what most of us would call love and almost certainly filled with emotional neglect and to an undetermined degree, incestuous use and manipulation by her sociopathic father and frankly, who knows who else. There seems to be some serious Stockholm Syndrome going on. It is hard not to feel some sympathy and even empathy.

On the other hand, she’s a grown ass woman who, one would hope, would have managed to scrape together enough emotional wherewithal to do a much better job of separating herself from her monster of a father. Perhaps she feels incapable of doing that. Perhaps she believes or he really does have horrible evidence to blackmail her into some large degree of compliance. Perhaps she had never realized until daddy came under so much intense scrutiny and he was given so much actual power what an absolute monster he is.

Perhaps she and her spouse took those positions as ‘advisors’ in order to try to mitigate the worst of daddy’s megalomaniac impulses. It seems some of his cabinet did just that. It also appears that all were largely unsuccessful—even taking into account that there surely has been some degree of unfairness in reporting re: Trump. Also, I am
certain, some significant omissions, and a lot that was successfully hidden.

Perhaps she genuinely has no idea how to be a real human being. She may also be a sociopath. Or married to one. Or both. She certainly seems to have had no experience being around anyone we could call remotely emotionally healthy or normal.

She’s probably scared shitless, regardless.

None of which means she’s not corrupt and evil.

So, it strikes me that there is something very real about this observation that her "soul" is dead, or that she perhaps never had a "soul".

It strikes me that as others observe, this may be the real origin of the uncanny valley: identifying a particular form of human who is devoid of certain capabilities of empathy, and of caring.

There are certain expressions they don't use appropriately as there are certain ways they do not feel. We notice this absence, this lack of protocol, and we notice the uniformity of it surrounding certain kinds of interactions.

Over time it adds up.

It is exactly that we have such a hard time capturing it in animation, in lies, in false faces because we don't understand entirely what "it" is in the first place beyond a complex interchange of body language and tonal information.

I wonder how badly I set off other people's wrongness alarms sometimes. Or perhaps I ended up on the far side of the valley, something more a "character" than a "person".

Perhaps the valley is more of a wall. The invaders of "falseness" are just less scary when they aren't trying to scale the wall.

 

[steve_bank]

The bios said Trump grew up in a loveless family. A niece I think it was sued over a ieice of the family fortune and related what it was like in the house.

By most accounts Trump is his father. His brother ended up being a commercial pilot and his father dmessed him as a 'bus driver'. The brother was the heir apparent and Donald undercut hum.

 

[steve_bank]

I know otherwise. I heard it from conservative Evangelicals.

Reliable sources eh?

I know you’re old enough to remember JFK (I apologize if I’m wrong about that - don’t wanna saddle you with extra years!)
I know for a fact that this whole white nationalism thing pre-dated his presidency. Goldwater almost beat him.

Sources? Read a few books on American political history. Search on American political assassinations. In the 19the century there were the anarchists. There has always been anti govt forces at play in the USA.

In the 60s my grandmother's brother in law a feisty Irish immigrant got invited by a neighbor to a John Birch society meeting. The speaker claimed the govt was riddled with communists.

The brother in law said name one and the speaker replied JFK, after which he gave them a load of Irish profanities and walked out. I remember hearing hm blow off steam over it.

I believe the roots of the KKK go back to post war confederates.

I made a point of never living in a self segregated intellectual bubble. I went out of my way to know different people.

Trump just is not bright enough to form and execute a coherenpolical strategy. Some people close to him said his campaign was probaly a publicity stunt and never throught he would win. His lifetime of business failures attests to that. The biggest lie is that Trump is an expert at business.

From what I lerned of Trump during the campaign including comments by people who worked for him I knew exactly how he would be as POTUS. Unable to form a coherent administration. I knew bacuse I had seen his type in the tech world.

As POTUS Trump acted just as he did all his life. Lieing and cheating. When a business falls apart he always manages to escape with money leaving ohers to hold the bag.

The best comparison is the the Star Trek Ferengi. Exploit, lie, deceive, cheat to make profit. Exploit and cheat family if yiu can get away with it.