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January 6 Hearings Live

southernhybrid said:
It looks as if he committed a crime but some experts don't believe he will be prosecuted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-call-georgia.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage


The call by President Trump on Saturday to Georgia’s secretary of state raised the prospect that Mr. Trump may have violated laws that prohibit interference in federal or state elections, but lawyers said on Sunday that it would be difficult to pursue such a charge.

The recording of the conversation between Mr. Trump and Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger of Georgia, first reported by The Washington Post, led a number of election and criminal defense lawyers to conclude that by pressuring Mr. Raffensperger to “find” the votes he would need to reverse the election outcome in the state, Mr. Trump either broke the law or came close to it.

“It seems to me like what he did clearly violates Georgia statutes,” said Leigh Ann Webster, an Atlanta criminal defense lawyer, citing a state law that makes it illegal for anyone who “solicits, requests, commands, importunes or otherwise attempts to cause the other person to engage” in election fraud.

At the federal level, anyone who “knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a state of a fair and impartially conducted election process” is breaking the law.
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That is because while Mr. Trump clearly implied that Mr. Raffensperger might suffer legal consequences if he did not find additional votes for the president in Georgia, Mr. Trump stopped short of saying he would deliver on the threat himself against Mr. Raffensperger and his legal counsel, Ryan Germany, Mr. Sanderson said.
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In some ways, Trump isn't as dumb as he seems to be. He's always had a way of saying things that can be interpreted in different ways. So, while the implication was that he was threatening Raffensperger, it wasn't a direct threat.

In this case, he made it seem as if he seriously believes that he won the Georgia election, and was just asking the SOS to do the right thing because if he doesn't do what Trump claims is the right thing, there may be legal consequences. I can see how that might make it hard to charge or prosecute him, as he didn't make a direct threat.

On the other hand, I just heard that the Georgia DOJ wants to consider if anything that Trump said on the call was enough to charge him with a state crime.

I just hope we can get through the next 16 days without Trump doing a lot more serious damage.
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Remember his lawyer/consigliere said in his congressional testimony this is exactly how he speaks to get questionable things done.
 
southernhybrid said:
It looks as if he committed a crime but some experts don't believe he will be prosecuted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-call-georgia.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage


The call by President Trump on Saturday to Georgia’s secretary of state raised the prospect that Mr. Trump may have violated laws that prohibit interference in federal or state elections, but lawyers said on Sunday that it would be difficult to pursue such a charge.

The recording of the conversation between Mr. Trump and Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger of Georgia, first reported by The Washington Post, led a number of election and criminal defense lawyers to conclude that by pressuring Mr. Raffensperger to “find” the votes he would need to reverse the election outcome in the state, Mr. Trump either broke the law or came close to it.

“It seems to me like what he did clearly violates Georgia statutes,” said Leigh Ann Webster, an Atlanta criminal defense lawyer, citing a state law that makes it illegal for anyone who “solicits, requests, commands, importunes or otherwise attempts to cause the other person to engage” in election fraud.

At the federal level, anyone who “knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a state of a fair and impartially conducted election process” is breaking the law.
Click to expand...


That is because while Mr. Trump clearly implied that Mr. Raffensperger might suffer legal consequences if he did not find additional votes for the president in Georgia, Mr. Trump stopped short of saying he would deliver on the threat himself against Mr. Raffensperger and his legal counsel, Ryan Germany, Mr. Sanderson said.
Click to expand...

In some ways, Trump isn't as dumb as he seems to be. He's always had a way of saying things that can be interpreted in different ways. So, while the implication was that he was threatening Raffensperger, it wasn't a direct threat.

In this case, he made it seem as if he seriously believes that he won the Georgia election, and was just asking the SOS to do the right thing because if he doesn't do what Trump claims is the right thing, there may be legal consequences. I can see how that might make it hard to charge or prosecute him, as he didn't make a direct threat.

On the other hand, I just heard that the Georgia DOJ wants to consider if anything that Trump said on the call was enough to charge him with a state crime.

I just hope we can get through the next 16 days without Trump doing a lot more serious damage.
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He can be dumb and still be well trained by reality and also by bad people.

I know plenty of unintelligent people who have been coached or just had experiences which coached them to such behavior. You don't need to invent a gun to be able to operate one.
 
Shadowy Man said:
Trump knows mob speak well.

“Your Honor, I was merely showing genuine concern when I said I hoped nothing happened to his family.”
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I recall an interview by AOC in the spring of 2019 where she described Trump as much like some sleazy real-estate developer who may or may not have Mob ties, the sort of person who makes threats with plenty of deniability, like "Something bad ought to happen to them".
 
lpetrich said:
Shadowy Man said:
Trump knows mob speak well.

“Your Honor, I was merely showing genuine concern when I said I hoped nothing happened to his family.”
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I recall an interview by AOC in the spring of 2019 where she described Trump as much like some sleazy real-estate developer who may or may not have Mob ties, the sort of person who makes threats with plenty of deniability, like "Something bad ought to happen to them".
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He's only doing what his enablers allow. If that changed he'd stop. Instead of confronting Orange Gasbag they encourage it because they don't want to harm their political skin.
 
On the other hand, I just heard that the Georgia DOJ wants to consider if anything that Trump said on the call was enough to charge him with a state crime.
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Just a few more days.
Just a few more days.

Tom
 
blastula said:
Three Thomas More Society, a wackaloon Christian group, filled another wackaloon election lawsuit. The many defendants include the Electoral College.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/questauthority/status/1341541600221159424?s=20[/TWEET]
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The judge ruled on this case today and it was beautifully brutal. He reamed them for 7 pages, and he is considering sanctions.

Hero Judge said:
Yet even that may be letting Plaintiffs off the hook too lightly. Their failure to make any effort to serve or formally notify any Defendant — even after reminder by the Court in its Minute Order — renders it difficult to believe that the suit is meant seriously. Courts are not instruments through which parties engage in such gamesmanship or symbolic political gestures. As a result, at the conclusion of this litigation, the Court will determine whether to issue an order to show cause why this matter should not be referred to its Committee on Grievances for potential discipline of Plaintiffs’ counsel.
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https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2020cv3791-10
 
blastula said:
blastula said:
Three Thomas More Society, a wackaloon Christian group, filled another wackaloon election lawsuit. The many defendants include the Electoral College.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/questauthority/status/1341541600221159424?s=20[/TWEET]
Click to expand...

The judge ruled on this case today and it was beautifully brutal. He reamed them for 7 pages, and he is considering sanctions.

Hero Judge said:
Yet even that may be letting Plaintiffs off the hook too lightly. Their failure to make any effort to serve or formally notify any Defendant — even after reminder by the Court in its Minute Order — renders it difficult to believe that the suit is meant seriously. Courts are not instruments through which parties engage in such gamesmanship or symbolic political gestures. As a result, at the conclusion of this litigation, the Court will determine whether to issue an order to show cause why this matter should not be referred to its Committee on Grievances for potential discipline of Plaintiffs’ counsel.
Click to expand...

https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2020cv3791-10
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Burn! I hope they do take action to punish the counsel. The court system isn’t a toy and I presume there are more worthy cases needing adjudication.
 
So later today, when the congress is counting the votes, republicans raise an objection, both houses go back to their respective chambers to vote on it, ...

1) Will the senate side with Trump? Have there been any republicans who have unequivocally said they will not object to the certified vote counts? As opposed to some wishy washy "I'll uphold the constitution" or some other bullshit? We saw what happened when push came to shove at the impeachment vote and judicial confirmations: Almost everybody fell in line. Republicans have 50 to 48 majority, so even if one of them (Romney?) votes against an objection, it's not enough. There have to be two dissenters.

2) Assuming senate does uphold the objection, and the house of representatives obviously doesn't, will Pence make the final call whether to accept or reject a state's electoral votes? Assuming he does, is it legal? If not, will he try anyway? And what can the democrats do to prevent that?

It's going to be an exciting night. Or afternoon. Or 5 days. Or two weeks. Or who knows how long the session will drag on.
 
Pence can't do anything about it. Both chambers would have to uphold an objection, very doubtful the Senate will even uphold any. The session starts Wednesday 1:00 p.m. eastern.

:eating_popcorn:
 
The only constitutional power the vice president has in this process is to read the results aloud and cast a deciding vote in the event of a tie. Trump is as ignorant about constitutional law as he is about the carcinogenic effects of windmills.
 
Jayjay said:
So later today, when the congress is counting the votes, republicans raise an objection, both houses go back to their respective chambers to vote on it, ...

1) Will the senate side with Trump? Have there been any republicans who have unequivocally said they will not object to the certified vote counts? As opposed to some wishy washy "I'll uphold the constitution" or some other bullshit? We saw what happened when push came to shove at the impeachment vote and judicial confirmations: Almost everybody fell in line. Republicans have 50 to 48 majority, so even if one of them (Romney?) votes against an objection, it's not enough. There have to be two dissenters.

2) Assuming senate does uphold the objection, and the house of representatives obviously doesn't, will Pence make the final call whether to accept or reject a state's electoral votes? Assuming he does, is it legal? If not, will he try anyway? And what can the democrats do to prevent that?

It's going to be an exciting night. Or afternoon. Or 5 days. Or two weeks. Or who knows how long the session will drag on.
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I saw a list somewhere, of senators who have said they will vote to certify the election and absolutely not contest it. It was only about 8-10 names, but that's enough.
 
When the dust settles and magas realize that dems have uNcHeCkEd pOwErzzzz now, they're gonna go full Dwight's fire drill.
 
I don't know about you guys, but my hands are tired from faking all those ballots last night.
 
Angry Floof said:
When the dust settles and magas realize that dems have uNcHeCkEd pOwErzzzz now, they're gonna go full Dwight's fire drill.
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I was thinking if the Democrats want to be dicks, they can challenge some of the states that Trump won. Florida! There is no way that Trump won Florida! People are saying there was widespread election fraud in Florida. The machines were flipping ballots from Biden to tRump. And, then there's Ohio. No way Trump won Ohio. Of course, I'm being facetious, but it would be kind of fun to give them a taste of their own bitter medicine. :D Maybe if they did it, it would make the Republicans see how stupid they look and what an unnecessary circus they are creating.
 
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/rebtanhs/status/1346855118914920454?s=20[/TWEET]

:eating_popcorn:
 
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