Jimmy Higgins
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13, 12, 10, 9, 5 are the ages being reported.
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Josh Duggar acknowledges he sexually molested underage girls including some of his sisters,
- Thread starter RavenSky
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Potoooooooo
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Josh Duggar's Relative: 'We Should Not Be Shocked That This Occurred'
A relative of the family made famous by TLC's "19 Kids and Counting" on Sunday said "we should not be shocked" that Josh Duggar allegedly molested underage girls when he was a teenager.
The eldest Duggar child apologized and resigned his position as the executive director of the Family Research Council's lobbying arm after a 2006 police report detailing the molestation allegations surfaced Thursday.
Michael Seewald, the father-in-law of Josh Duggar's younger sister Jessa, wrote a lengthy blog post Sunday affirming that his family stood in solidarity with both the Duggar family and the unidentified victims. The post was dedicated to bringing what Seewald called "context and reason" to the media firestorm that followed the release of the nearly decade-old offense report.
Seewald spent most of the post giving a faith-based argument for why Duggar should be beyond reproach in the present day and at times seemed to characterize Duggar's "sins" as inevitable. While he said Duggar's alleged sex crimes were "reprehensible," Seewald argued it was improper to judge him for those offenses because he'd sought forgiveness over the years from both the alleged victims and Jesus Christ.
"Here is a warning for everyone reading this, by condemning a repentant sinner you have placed yourself in the place of God ... We are never to condone sin, and the sins of Josh’s youth are reprehensible," Seewald wrote. "Civil penalties are sometimes required and we should never begrudge the victims of crimes or the civil authorities from seeking justice, but we are not to condemn repentant sinners in our hearts or with our tongues or pens."
Seewald's other line of argument was that no one "should be shocked" the alleged sex offenses occurred. He argued that all people are capable of depravity and most only stop themselves from committing an offense because of "lack of opportunity or fear of consequences."
"While not all of our sins find a way to manifest themselves externally we all know the corruption that is present in each of our hearts. It is a mercy of God that he restrains the evil of mankind otherwise we would have destroyed ourselves long ago," Seewald wrote. "Many times it is simply lack of opportunity or fear of consequences that keep us from falling into grievous sin even though our fallen hearts would love to indulge the flesh. We should not be shocked that this occurred in the Duggar’s home, we should rather be thankful to God if we have been spared such, and pray that he would keep us and our children from falling."
In the same vein, Seewald dismissed the argument that Duggar's strict, Christian upbringing factored into his alleged transgressions as a teenager.
"They think that had he access to sex education by Planned Parenthood, been allowed to watch edgy Hollywood films, been encouraged to experimentation with a girlfriend, or gotten free condoms from the local school nurse, then none of this would have happened. Right," Seewald wrote. "The stupidity of some people is mind boggling. Fan the flames of youthful lust and you end up with what we have: unprecedented numbers of unwed mothers, millions of abortions, rampant STDs, and the unraveling of the fabric of our whole society. Josh didn’t sin because he was repressed, he sinned because like all of us he is a sinner."
After expending all that oxygen to defend his daughter-in-law's brother, Seewald implored victims of sex abuse to come forward with their stories.
"Finally, a word to the millions of muted victims of sexual abuse all over the world. It is not your fault," he wrote. "No matter what the abuser may have said, you are not the one to blame. Do not keep silent if you are being abused, tell someone you trust, a parent, a teacher, a friend, anyone is better than silence. You are likely not the only one who has been abused. Tell someone so that they will be stopped."
A relative of the family made famous by TLC's "19 Kids and Counting" on Sunday said "we should not be shocked" that Josh Duggar allegedly molested underage girls when he was a teenager.
The eldest Duggar child apologized and resigned his position as the executive director of the Family Research Council's lobbying arm after a 2006 police report detailing the molestation allegations surfaced Thursday.
Michael Seewald, the father-in-law of Josh Duggar's younger sister Jessa, wrote a lengthy blog post Sunday affirming that his family stood in solidarity with both the Duggar family and the unidentified victims. The post was dedicated to bringing what Seewald called "context and reason" to the media firestorm that followed the release of the nearly decade-old offense report.
Seewald spent most of the post giving a faith-based argument for why Duggar should be beyond reproach in the present day and at times seemed to characterize Duggar's "sins" as inevitable. While he said Duggar's alleged sex crimes were "reprehensible," Seewald argued it was improper to judge him for those offenses because he'd sought forgiveness over the years from both the alleged victims and Jesus Christ.
"Here is a warning for everyone reading this, by condemning a repentant sinner you have placed yourself in the place of God ... We are never to condone sin, and the sins of Josh’s youth are reprehensible," Seewald wrote. "Civil penalties are sometimes required and we should never begrudge the victims of crimes or the civil authorities from seeking justice, but we are not to condemn repentant sinners in our hearts or with our tongues or pens."
Seewald's other line of argument was that no one "should be shocked" the alleged sex offenses occurred. He argued that all people are capable of depravity and most only stop themselves from committing an offense because of "lack of opportunity or fear of consequences."
"While not all of our sins find a way to manifest themselves externally we all know the corruption that is present in each of our hearts. It is a mercy of God that he restrains the evil of mankind otherwise we would have destroyed ourselves long ago," Seewald wrote. "Many times it is simply lack of opportunity or fear of consequences that keep us from falling into grievous sin even though our fallen hearts would love to indulge the flesh. We should not be shocked that this occurred in the Duggar’s home, we should rather be thankful to God if we have been spared such, and pray that he would keep us and our children from falling."
In the same vein, Seewald dismissed the argument that Duggar's strict, Christian upbringing factored into his alleged transgressions as a teenager.
"They think that had he access to sex education by Planned Parenthood, been allowed to watch edgy Hollywood films, been encouraged to experimentation with a girlfriend, or gotten free condoms from the local school nurse, then none of this would have happened. Right," Seewald wrote. "The stupidity of some people is mind boggling. Fan the flames of youthful lust and you end up with what we have: unprecedented numbers of unwed mothers, millions of abortions, rampant STDs, and the unraveling of the fabric of our whole society. Josh didn’t sin because he was repressed, he sinned because like all of us he is a sinner."
After expending all that oxygen to defend his daughter-in-law's brother, Seewald implored victims of sex abuse to come forward with their stories.
"Finally, a word to the millions of muted victims of sexual abuse all over the world. It is not your fault," he wrote. "No matter what the abuser may have said, you are not the one to blame. Do not keep silent if you are being abused, tell someone you trust, a parent, a teacher, a friend, anyone is better than silence. You are likely not the only one who has been abused. Tell someone so that they will be stopped."
Toni
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He has a point: I don't think it was 'repression' that caused Josh's abuse of others. I think it was ignorance and a lack of any way of understanding or knowing how to deal with his feelings, period. Not just the sexual ones.
The other thing to keep in mind is that for the Duggar family, these incidents are a number of years in the past. They've dealt with them--whatever that means and I would be the first to say that their way of dealing was grossly inadequate and probably inappropriate and not well educated or well informed.
For the world at large, it's a fresh set of incidents perpetrated against children. Hence the outrage, which is entirely justifiable. But they were committed by another kid, someone well under age. I think that gets lost in this outrage.
As for what we've heard or rather not heard about what sort of treatment or counseling the victims received? Unfortunately because this is a well known family, we are able to suss out who were his victims. Generally speaking, the victims are afforded a great deal more privacy than these girls will be. They probably have not been given the same kind of counseling that I would seek out for my kid, that's true. I am not sure we need to know the intimate details of their counseling. But I hope for their sake, they've had some good counseling.
Now, yes, good sex education might have helped Josh and his victims. Good sex education would include the information that every individual is entitled to their own body, that inappropriate touching is abuse, that kids are not for sexual exploration==that is abuse and is wrong and criminal.
It wasn't *just* his sister though. It was four of his sisters plus a neighbor girl (that he's confessed to)
Why does this stern talking to need to be directed at the (four) sisters, one of whom may have been as young as 5-years old? Even if we wanted to accept that the parents wanted to shield their son from criminal prosecution, not getting the girls actual genuine victim counseling was very wrong.
"Police" did get involved. A friend of the family who never even wrote a report.
If you mean what would an impartial police officer do if he was doing his actual job? Turn it over to the D.A. Then most likely there would be evaluations of the entire family, and genuine counseling for Josh and for his victims. Since the family is white, Christian and wealthy rather than poor and/or black, there was almost zero chance of Josh going to prison or even having a permanent record.
What the Duggars would not have, however would be a television show at $45,000 per episode.
Underseer
Contributor
Guys, guys, guys!
First, it is totally unfair and unreasonable to expect a redneck to not have sex with his sisters.
Second, liberals are exactly as bad because Lena Dunham, which proves that Josh Duggar did nothing wrong!
This is obviously just an unfair attack by the liberal media for no reason other than that Josh Duggar is a good, god-fearing Christian man! Once again, Christians are being bashed and persecuted for no good reason! [/conservative]
First, it is totally unfair and unreasonable to expect a redneck to not have sex with his sisters.
Second, liberals are exactly as bad because Lena Dunham, which proves that Josh Duggar did nothing wrong!
This is obviously just an unfair attack by the liberal media for no reason other than that Josh Duggar is a good, god-fearing Christian man! Once again, Christians are being bashed and persecuted for no good reason! [/conservative]
crispy
Member
Well theres a point there
It should be directed at him, but the daughters must know that everyone has acknowleded that they were wronged, thats what I meant.
bilby
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Perhaps it would be best if this whole matter were dealt with in the manner advocated by this U.S. Senate candidate:
Or has Jim Bob Duggar changed his position on the issue now that it is his own son who is the perpetrator, and not some anonymous bogeyman?
Or has Jim Bob Duggar changed his position on the issue now that it is his own son who is the perpetrator, and not some anonymous bogeyman?
Jesus phoned in at the last minute calling for a stay of execution. Later on he granted a full pardon.
Potoooooooo
Contributor
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/ari...l-duggars-sexual-deviants-should-be-executed/
The wife of an Arizona pastor who predicted an “AIDS-free Christmas” if all gays were killed has condemned the Duggar family – as “worldly” liberals who promote a “false gospel.” Zsuzsanna Anderson said she had never met the stars of TLC’s “19 Kids and Counting,” but the mother of eight children has streamed every one of their regular episodes and specials because she likes “seeing and learning from the daily workings of a large family.” The wife of Pastor Steven Anderson, who bars homosexuals and demands silence from women at his Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, said in a blog post she disapproved of the “deceptive” way the Duggars practiced their faith. Anderson said she had no doubt that Josh Duggar, who admitted to police as a teen that he had molested his sisters and other girls as they slept, had been sexually abused himself – but she was unforgiving toward the 27-year-old married father if had become a “reprobate pedophile.” “I believe that all pedophiles are reprobates, that they are unregenerate and in fact can never change, and that they, like all sexual deviants, should be executed as the Bible demands, lest they spread their abusive ways and corrupt more innocent lives,” Anderson said.
The wife of an Arizona pastor who predicted an “AIDS-free Christmas” if all gays were killed has condemned the Duggar family – as “worldly” liberals who promote a “false gospel.” Zsuzsanna Anderson said she had never met the stars of TLC’s “19 Kids and Counting,” but the mother of eight children has streamed every one of their regular episodes and specials because she likes “seeing and learning from the daily workings of a large family.” The wife of Pastor Steven Anderson, who bars homosexuals and demands silence from women at his Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, said in a blog post she disapproved of the “deceptive” way the Duggars practiced their faith. Anderson said she had no doubt that Josh Duggar, who admitted to police as a teen that he had molested his sisters and other girls as they slept, had been sexually abused himself – but she was unforgiving toward the 27-year-old married father if had become a “reprobate pedophile.” “I believe that all pedophiles are reprobates, that they are unregenerate and in fact can never change, and that they, like all sexual deviants, should be executed as the Bible demands, lest they spread their abusive ways and corrupt more innocent lives,” Anderson said.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/ari...l-duggars-sexual-deviants-should-be-executed/
The wife of an Arizona pastor who predicted an “AIDS-free Christmas” if all gays were killed has condemned the Duggar family – as “worldly” liberals who promote a “false gospel.” Zsuzsanna Anderson said she had never met the stars of TLC’s “19 Kids and Counting,” but the mother of eight children has streamed every one of their regular episodes and specials because she likes “seeing and learning from the daily workings of a large family.” The wife of Pastor Steven Anderson, who bars homosexuals and demands silence from women at his Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, said in a blog post she disapproved of the “deceptive” way the Duggars practiced their faith. Anderson said she had no doubt that Josh Duggar, who admitted to police as a teen that he had molested his sisters and other girls as they slept, had been sexually abused himself – but she was unforgiving toward the 27-year-old married father if had become a “reprobate pedophile.” “I believe that all pedophiles are reprobates, that they are unregenerate and in fact can never change, and that they, like all sexual deviants, should be executed as the Bible demands, lest they spread their abusive ways and corrupt more innocent lives,” Anderson said.
And by "I believe...", she actually means "My husband told me to say..."
He demands women be silent in his church? Fuck that.
These are the people that Huckabee represents, and what Huckabee would like to see for the entire country. <shudder>
For those saying he was young and didn't know, bear in mind that this STARTED when he was 14. But it didn't all happen in one week and be over.
edited: the woman he was betrothed to (at 14!) seems to be one of the people he was inappropriate with. I don't see this being a one-time thing that stopped while he was still 14.
http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269
edited: the woman he was betrothed to (at 14!) seems to be one of the people he was inappropriate with. I don't see this being a one-time thing that stopped while he was still 14.
http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269
Derec
Contributor
So according to a self described "rumor blog" police reports "suggests" that the victims were his sisters and the same "rumor blog" infers from that that one of them was the 5 year old? So the police report doesn't actually say that one of the victims was 5. While it was all wrong (since nobody is claiming it was consensual play even with older sisters/visitors), there is a big difference here depending exactly which girls he fondled/molested.
The difference in age between Josh and Jana Marie is about two years. So when he was 14 in 2002 she would have been 12, when he was 15 in 2003 she was 13. I would expect the other age discrepancies to be the difference between 2002 and 2003 as well. The wiki page gives dates of birth for all Dugger spawn.
Derec
Contributor
Let me get this straight. When we talk about an alleged campus rape and I mention another alleged (and discredited) campus rape that's a "derail". When the topic is "Racism in Baltimore" and I bring up racism in Georgia that's a "derail". But bringing a case of police shooting here is, what, just conversation?
Josh Duggar fully admits that he molested four of his sisters and a non-family female without their consent and even while they were asleep.
You made a declaration about Josh and his victims (plural) being close in age as if that makes his behavior less harmful. The reality is that only one of his sisters was "close in age" by two years. That leaves three of the four even younger sisters, including the five year old, who were also molested by him. We don't know which four of the sisters he molested. We only know that there were four admitted to, and that means that all of his victims were between 2 to 10 years younger than him. Even if being "close in age" somehow minimizes his predatory behavior (& it doesn't), his victims were not "close in age". They were all pre-teens when he started molesting them, and all were almost certainly pre-pubescent.
Jimmy Higgins
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You can do math, right?
In 2002 the older daughter (born 1990) was 12. Then going down the clown car list, they were 11, 10, 9, 5. He was 14. So he was 3, 4, 5, and 9 years older. Or lets put this in grade school for better illustration.
He was old enough to be a Freshman in high school.
The five sisters would have been in 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, and Kindergarten.
Many high schoolers hitting that 5th grader booty these days? And that is the best he can look here with what he has admitted to.
Another interesting thing to think about is that some are saying the fundie circumstances made this nearly inevitable. Some conclude from there that he sould be absolved by that. Others conclude that he is still responsible and it also condemns the movement.
But doesn't this suggest that all of his brothers are also at risk of doing this since, still and now?
But doesn't this suggest that all of his brothers are also at risk of doing this since, still and now?
I won't say a fundie upbringing made it inevitable, but an atmosphere where certain things are not discussed in any context, makes it easier to conceal.
As for the brothers, it's much more common for boys in a sexually repressive environment to explore each other, than risk sneaking into their sister's bedroom.
Potoooooooo
Contributor
Fox News Ignores Duggar Scandal
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/05/27/fox-news-devoted-less-than-two-minutes-to-the-d/203778
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/05/27/fox-news-devoted-less-than-two-minutes-to-the-d/203778