MAGA Rally In DC For Reality Denial

[Angry Floof]

I already have condemned the lesser evil! I simply refuse to equate the two. Try thinking instead of foaming at the mouth.

How the hell do you think those larger atrocities happen? In a bubble? They just happen spontaneously out of nowhere? In fact, why don't you tell us what you think gives rise to those larger atrocities that you don't think applies to the trump administration and its policies and actions over the last four years? Would you mind doing that? I don't think you can.

You can keep insulting me all you want, but I'll keep calling out your cowardice and ignorant, apathetic mindset.

Floof, very early on shitler identified the Jewish people as a problem and advocated eradicating them. Has Trump ever patently advocated genocide? Will you admit that the U.S. under Trump got nowhere near the degree of evil that shitler and the other fascists unleashed on the world? He has been elected out. He cannot hold onto power by force. He is not shitler. He is too stupid. And he doesn't have the silver tongued Goebbels. He has all the political acumen of an angry varsity soccer coach!

I am not defending Trump or even the GOP. I am merely defending certain individuals from being described as evil or complicit to evil.

How to you describe the large numbers of black and Hispanic conservatives? Are they all fascists, Nazis, and racists???

Get a grip on yourself. You are creepily reminding me of Orwell and Huxley.

You get a grip. My speaking in terms you don't like isn't "frothing at the mouth" and it's not hurting you in the least. I'm challenging your apathy and ignorance about what gives rise to the Hitlers of the world. Hint: it's not the Hitlers themselves.

And I never called any individual evil. I call them bigots, which is true, and I call them stupid and/or ignorant, which is true. I call them oblivious and delusional, which is true. I call them right wing authoritarian followers, which is true. And I call them complicit in many evil acts, which is true whether they know it or not, and I call on them to self reflect and question the stories they tell themselves to feel better about their inhumane world view.

Once again, people who support Trump are either aware of what they are doing and don't care about the suffering they help to bring about for others, or they are oblivious and ignorant of what they are doing but are nonetheless giving power in numbers to that same force of evil.

This is not rocket science. Hold power accountable. Hold people accountable for supporting corrupt powers regardless of what fantasy they're telling themselves about what they're doing. Do it before major atrocity occurs. I don't care how "good" people are as individuals within their personal bubbles of existence, I challenge them to apply that supposed goodness to the rest of the world, to all the people who are not like them and whose suffering they probably will never experience.

"Elected out" or not, Trump and his supporters will continue to assert their hateful, dishonest ideology on the country in any way they can, and they will be working very hard on the next theocratic authoritarian leader to run in the next election.

 

[WAB]

If you give a drunk the keys to your car, you are part of whstever happens, even if you only intended to let him catvh the game on the radio. Even if he pinkie-swears he'll only listen to the radio.

This analogy fails. The average Trump voter would be analogous to a person who believed the drunk driver was stone cold sober. There are people with different values, religious people for just one example.

You, like Floof, are trying to equate ignorance with evil. They are manifestly NOT the same.

 

[Angry Floof]

If you give a drunk the keys to your car, you are part of whstever happens, even if you only intended to let him catvh the game on the radio. Even if he pinkie-swears he'll only listen to the radio.

This analogy fails. The average Trump voter would be analogous to a person who believed the drunk driver was stone cold sober. There are people with different values, religious people for just one example.

Ignorance is not a "value." I would say trump supporters don't have any values other than selfishness and tribalism. If any of them ever do develop values and principles, they tend to abandon trump and right wing ideologies.

There is no "value" they've been willing to criticize trump for violating. This is not opinion. They value the tribalistic authority worship and the rest is lip service to "values" that trump has blatantly shit on for four years.

 

[Keith&Co.]

This analogy fails. The average Trump voter would be analogous to a person who believed the drunk driver was stone cold sober.

BULLSHIT. He hasn't hidden his tendencies, his proclivities, his hopes and his goals.
It's not like Nixon, making nice with China while spying on his opponents in secret.
They have either seen exactly what is going on, or made a positive choice not to see it. But don't claim ignorance.

You, like Floof, are trying to equate ignorance with evil. They are manifestly NOT the same.

evennif it were so, they do have the same result. You're still giving the keys to someone with puke on his shoes, his shirt, and his bresth. If you swear he's sober merely because he hasn't puked on your shoes, you are making a choice that contributes to manslaughter.

 

[WAB]

This analogy fails. The average Trump voter would be analogous to a person who believed the drunk driver was stone cold sober.

BULLSHIT. He hasn't hidden his tendencies, his proclivities, his hopes and his goals.
It's not like Nixon, making nice with China while spying on his opponents in secret.
They have either seen exactly what is going on, or made a positive choice not to see it. But don't claim ignorance.

You, like Floof, are trying to equate ignorance with evil. They are manifestly NOT the same.

evennif it were so, they do have the same result. You're still giving the keys to someone with puke on his shoes, his shirt, and his bresth. If you swear he's sober merely because he hasn't puked on your shoes, you are making a choice that contributes to manslaughter.

So you and Floof really, really believe that every single Trump voter knows that Trump is a racist, that he has not even tried to hide it, and yet lots and lots and lots of black people and Hispanics voted for him, KNOWING that Trump would make decisions that would negatively impact the lives, the very welfare, of black and Hispanic people?

Really?

Actually, your second para contradicts the first. First you say they either knew what you claim Trump was doing, or that they made a choice not to see it (to excuse it knowingly), but then you say even if they are truly ignorant they are still complicit in evil.

Evil and ignorance are not the same, and you damn well know it.

 

[Patooka]

Evil and ignorance are not the same, and you damn well know it.

You do realise that one can support fascism because one is ignorant? I suspect a majority of Trump supporters fall into this category despite the one or two exceptions you could point to that believe otherwise. Simply put, supporting fascism because one is ignorant and supporting fascism because one believes in it is really a difference without distinction when it comes to the end result.

And the fact Trump supporters are refusing to watch FOX News because apparently it's now too liberal is a clear indication most Trump supporters are not only ignorant, but are wilfully ignorant. People who make a conscious decision to keep their head in the sand are the very people who make fascism possible. I find it very hard to empathize with them.

 

[WAB]

No, one does not positively support anything through ignorance. A giraffe does not support fascism by virtue of being ignorant of it, nor does a truly ignorant person support anything whatsoever by being ignorant of something. If they are ignorant of something, that means they do not know of it, and if they do not know of it, they do not support it.

Do you think black and Hispanic Trump supporters knowingly support a man who they actually believe harbors ill will against black and Hispanic people?

 

[Patooka]

No, one does not positively support anything through ignorance. A giraffe does not oppose fascism by virtue of being ignorant of it, nor does a truly ignorant person support anything whatsoever by being ignorant of something. If they are ignorant of something, that means they do not know of it, and if they do not know of it, they do not support it.

Do you think black and Hispanic Trump supporters knowingly support a man who they actually believe harbors ill will against black and Hispanic people?

I think black and Hispanic Trump supporters are so statistically minor they're not the problem. And people voting against their own interests isn't unprecedented. Also, like I said, being wilfully ignorant is worthy of condemnation.

 

[crazyfingers]

Racists, white supremacists and christian nationalists are the problem. Christian nationalists who to a large degree are older white evangelicals are losing share of the population either by attrition and younger folks are increasingly turned off by the hard right policies of christian nationalists. There is also a core antiscience plank to christian nationalism that younger people are rejecting

White supremacists will be with us a lot longer.

But there is also a huge overlap between white supremacists and christian nationalists.

IMHO, both are evil.

 

[WAB]

No, one does not positively support anything through ignorance. A giraffe does not oppose fascism by virtue of being ignorant of it, nor does a truly ignorant person support anything whatsoever by being ignorant of something. If they are ignorant of something, that means they do not know of it, and if they do not know of it, they do not support it.

Do you think black and Hispanic Trump supporters knowingly support a man who they actually believe harbors ill will against black and Hispanic people?

I think black and Hispanic Trump supporters are so statistically minor they're not the problem. And people voting against their own interests isn't unprecedented. Also, like I said, being wilfully ignorant is worthy of condemnation.

I think there are plenty of black and Hispanic people who voted for Trump because they believed he was the best choice. I even believe that some of them believed that Trump as president would actually, really be in their best interest, and I believe that these people are quite capable of thinking for themselves.

 

[Elixir]

You need to learn how to accept a little criticism. You claim all Trump fans support fascism.

Support, enable... whatever. Trump fans are an essential cog in the machinery of atrocity. You can make fine distinctions when you're not a victim.

Nothing that grieves us can be called little: by the eternal laws of proportion a child's loss of a doll and a king's loss of a crown are events of the same size.
- Mark Twain

Mark Twain is never wrong.

 

[WAB]

You need to learn how to accept a little criticism. You claim all Trump fans support fascism.

Support, enable... whatever. Trump fans are an essential cog in the machinery of atrocity. You can make fine distinctions when you're not a victim.

Nothing that grieves us can be called little: by the eternal laws of proportion a child's loss of a doll and a king's loss of a crown are events of the same size.
- Mark Twin

Mark Twin is never wrong.

To point out degrees of magnitude with reference to wrongdoing is what rational people do. You sound like rabid fire and brimstone preachers who defend sickening notions of eternal damnation by saying that all sins are equal in the eyes of God, that telling a white lie is equal to molesting a child. Save the religious sanctimony. The US has not even come close to fascism, regardless of what few individuals in the system actually think and do. Trump has been voted out, and he lacks the power and ability to mount a serious effort to hold onto authority by force. He also lacks the intelligence. Angry blustering varsity soccer coaches are not on par with Hitler and Stalin.

Yeah I like Mark Twain too, but what you have is a fallacious argument from authority, which sounds like religious apologetics and is not true.

To say one evil is less than another is not to forgive or condone that evil.

 

[Elixir]

Support, enable... whatever. Trump fans are an essential cog in the machinery of atrocity. You can make fine distinctions when you're not a victim.


Mark Twin is never wrong.

To point out degrees of magnitude with reference to wrongdoing is what rational people do. You sound like rabid fire and brimstone preachers who defend sickening notions of eternal damnation by saying that all sins are equal in the eyes of God....

If I sound like that to you, you are 100% missing the point.
I could easily dismiss you, saying you sound like a trumpsucker indulging in whataboutism to excuse Trump's genocidal dereliction of duty. Because you do.
I am not saying that's what you're about, because I understand that there is (currently) a difference in scale. But "sound like"? Yeah.

Trump has been voted out, and he lacks the power and ability to mount a serious effort to hold onto power by force.

Today Trump and his enablers conspire to withhold life-saving information from the incoming administration - still hoping that States' governments will select electors that will override the expressed will of the voters.
"Not as bad as Hitler" does nothing to mitigate the suffering and death that that complicity is producing, even as you observe that it's "not as bad as Hitler".

YET.

(Trump: "Hold my beer!")

 

[Gun Nut]

Except it's not generalization. It's an inhumane (at best) ideology that Republicans support, whether their hands are personally bloodstained or not.

Every Republican supports an inhumane and dangerous ideology. Every single one. Every trump fan supports fascism and oppressing others.

The hypocrisy, projection, and lying that naturally come with that ideology should damn well be called out.

This is not a generalization.

Every Trump fan supports fascism? Egads.

Yes. That is exactly correct. Supporting what Trump is doing now is exactly equivalent to supporting anti-democratic fascision. Ignore the will of the democratic process by lying and cheating for the purpose of grasping as much power as possible.
They are no longer JUST a basket of deplorables... now they have moved into the territory of unamerican terroristic cunts that should be deported back to the shithole countries their ancestors slime-trailed over here.

 

[WAB]

Except it's not generalization. It's an inhumane (at best) ideology that Republicans support, whether their hands are personally bloodstained or not.

Every Republican supports an inhumane and dangerous ideology. Every single one. Every trump fan supports fascism and oppressing others.

The hypocrisy, projection, and lying that naturally come with that ideology should damn well be called out.

This is not a generalization.

Every Trump fan supports fascism? Egads.

Yes. That is exactly correct. Supporting what Trump is doing now is exactly equivalent to supporting anti-democratic fascision. Ignore the will of the democratic process by lying and cheating for the purpose of grasping as much power as possible.
They are no longer JUST a basket of deplorables... now they have moved into the territory of unamerican terroristic cunts that should be deported back to the shithole countries their ancestors slime-trailed over here.

Listen, believe what you like, but voting for Trump is not and is not even anywhere near "exactly equivalent" to supporting fascism. Lol.

Just promise me one thing: keep your big manly gun away from me.

 

[Elixir]

... voting for Trump is not and is not even anywhere near "exactly equivalent" to supporting fascism. Lol.

Right. It's exactly like the Germans who turned a blind eye to Hitler's excesses of the late 30s because he made the trains run on time and returned a sense of proud nationalism.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Trump has been voted out, and he lacks the power and ability to mount a serious effort to hold onto power by force.

Today Trump and his enablers conspire to withhold life-saving information from the incoming administration - still hoping that States' governments will select electors that will override the expressed will of the voters.
"Not as bad as Hitler" does nothing to mitigate the suffering and death that that complicity is producing, even as you observe that it's "not as bad as Hitler".

YET.

(Trump: "Hold my beer!")

Since the election results it has become less about Trump and more about Trumpism. The GOP sits in silent fear. Why? I think they have moved past Trump but still must fear Trumpism among those 73 million voters. There is a great mound at it's angle of repose. What would it take to go from idiot Trump to an authoritarian government controlled by the hard right?

Unless we luck out with the Senate, four years of Biden will likely be nothing but a respite.

 

[Elixir]

I think they have moved past Trump but still must fear Trumpism among those 73 million voters.

I am not one bit certain that there are 73 million Trump voters. Up to a third of them might be foreigners, dead people, non-existent people or digital inventions. It is certain that the Trump Crime Family and its foreign partners in crime and genocide have cheated in the 2020 election to the fullest extent of their ability to cheat. They seem very surprised that it was still insufficient.
Of course, even if it's only 40 million of them, that's still a big number that makes them a critical component for keeping the GOP Nazi Party in power.

 

[TomC]

Yes. That is exactly correct. Supporting what Trump is doing now is exactly equivalent to supporting anti-democratic fascision. Ignore the will of the democratic process by lying and cheating for the purpose of grasping as much power as possible.
They are no longer JUST a basket of deplorables... now they have moved into the territory of unamerican terroristic cunts that should be deported back to the shithole countries their ancestors slime-trailed over here.

Listen, believe what you like, but voting for Trump is not and is not even anywhere near "exactly equivalent" to supporting fascism. Lol.

Just promise me one thing: keep your big manly gun away from me.

Mostly I've agreed with you in this thread. But you're making a similar mistake here to the anti-Trump people.

There's a huge difference between supporting Trump in 2016, voting for him in 2020, and supporting what he's doing right now.

What he's doing right now is slamming basic American institutions like the election process. Firing people in the government who don't support his unsupported allegations and refusing to accept the outcome of a free and fair "election"(by the process we have in the USA).

Sorry, but he's acting more and more like a fascist tyrant ever day. And he's got months to continue taking revenge on the American people, for voting him out of office, by EO and giving security and trade information to our adversaries like Russia.

It might be different if he didn't have a lifetime of similar behavior behind him, but he does.
Tom

 

[Gun Nut]

Yes. That is exactly correct. Supporting what Trump is doing now is exactly equivalent to supporting anti-democratic fascision. Ignore the will of the democratic process by lying and cheating for the purpose of grasping as much power as possible.
They are no longer JUST a basket of deplorables... now they have moved into the territory of unamerican terroristic cunts that should be deported back to the shithole countries their ancestors slime-trailed over here.

Listen, believe what you like, but voting for Trump is not and is not even anywhere near "exactly equivalent" to supporting fascism. Lol.

We are commenting on Trump supporters, not Trump voters. Voting is an American right, and how you vote is your own business.
Now that the election is over and Trump lost by a MUCH larger margin than what he won with in 2016, supporting Trump now with what he is doing after the election, is treasonous terrorism against democracy for which no quarter should be given.

Just promise me one thing: keep your big manly gun away from me.

Then keep their gay pride boy ARs at home when the terrorist caravan loads up to invade democratic states... or I'll shove it up their ass for them with my "manly gun" down their cocksucking throats.

But I don't suspect the faggot boys have the balls to invade my open-carry state that voted against the trumpster fire. I almost wish they would.

ARs are for pussies. It's a rifle with training wheels on it. Your 5 year old daughter can fire it comfortably. That's why it's so popular - It's EASY to fire and very gentle on weak, sensitive shoulders.