Male patients asked if they are pregnant at NHS Trust

[Metaphor]

A personal question that safeguards health: are you pregnant (or may you become pregnant)?

A nonsensical question that does not: are you ("male"/"female")?

Both safeguard health. I realise your religion does not allow you to acknowledge that the second question does.

I love the scare quotes on male and female. Nice touch.

By the way, I strongly suggest you refuse health care where the provider asks your sex or obtains it some other way.

 

[Swammerdami]

I'm glad to see we finally have a thread on an important issue, one which is about to plunge Australia into recession.

The leftist media focuses on trivia:

• Children mutilated in Ukraine. Their parents only had kids for the tax breaks. Better to be mutilated than groomed for George Soros' pedophilia ring.
• Climate change is turning parts of the American West into desert, and making some ocean-front property uninsurable. Ruptured psych-dolt!
• Inflation. Smart Job Creators keep much of their wealth in ranches, bullion and NFTs.
• Donald Trump forgot to dot an I or cross a T on a phone log? Hillary operates the world's largest child sex ring and organized a massacre in Benghazi, but the leftist media doesn't care.

But FINALLY, we have a thread on the horror which will bring down civilization: Males wasting four entire seconds checking a box.

Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, it should be noted that in addition to the four seconds wasted on box-checking, another three seconds on average will be spent on recreational outrage. Humor is the best medicine. And some will spend even more time thinking or talking about another instance of over-reach by those who burn Dr. Seuss books and take Hitler's side in Putin's noble campaign against Nazis. On balance — or so The Ilk surely thinks — further recruitment for the Patriots who oppose pedophilia and Jewish space lasers surely outweighs the harm done by the question in OP!

Let's go Brandon!

You are the one trying to contort reality to revolve around made up bullshit and demanding others "go along with" such made up bullshit. Trying to bully, scold and shame people into conforming. I know how much it frustrates you and that's what makes it so darned hilarious. You can stamp your feet and scream and scream and scream all you like, the oiks are just not buying into this line of bullshit.

Does anybody know what an "oik" is? (Google might know but my psychiatrist tells me I've been Googling too much lately.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Nobody on your side has addressed the combination of two things:

My wife was clearly asked for a pregnancy test based on looks, not her chart despite her chart being in the nurse's hand at the time. My SIL has repeatedly been thought male by women in restrooms.

Combine these and you get a failure scenario in which a male-looking female doesn't get asked about pregnancy when they should have been.

I've addressed this more than once. I'm kind of tired of addressing this shit over and over and over.

The Trust used to ask females. The original policy was to ask females. Not 'female looking' people. Females. Your wife is a female and your sister in law is a female. They would be asked under the old policy and the new policy.

My SIL is repeatedly thought male. You're saying a nurse will never do what many other women have???

AND, for the umpteenth time, not a shred of evidence has been produced to show that some females were missed under the previous policy and this caused an imaging incident with a pregnant woman.

1) It's possible to learn from others' experience--observe a mistake elsewhere.

2) Many things simply involve risk, not inherent bad outcomes. If there wasn't a bad outcome it would probably go unnoticed, and even if there was a bad outcome it might not be attributed to the mistake.

 

[TomC]

Does anybody know what an "oik" is? (Google might know but my psychiatrist tells me I've been Googling too much lately.)

I prefer not to know what an oik is.

But my phone accepted it as a word.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Great news! Men are uncomfortable about the health of their colon and prostate. So, no more questions (or uncomfortable procedures) regarding that. And talk about something to make one potentially uncomfortable! Coal miners are uncomfortable about their lung health. Great news! Just say "pass".

This is a questionnaire. Why would people have wasted so much time of their life over a couple questions on a questionnaire? Discomfort? Has life become so perfect and utopian that the potential for "discomfort" (overstated and bullshit claim) from being asked if they are pregnant is warranting this much... well in excess of the two shits it isn't even worth?

And doctors most certainly shouldn't discuss Viagra!

(I actually was surprised that there was absolutely no mention of sexual function on the urologist's paperwork, although there were several questions related to urinary issues. It has to have been standard paperwork because I was there about kidney stones, not anything lower down.)

 

[Arctish]

Do you think men couldn't be embarrassed by that, or merely that their feelings do not count?

You discount trans people's feeling almost constantly.

So what is your opinion?

Should people's feelings count, or not? Do some people's feelings count and others not count?

A false dichotomy lined up behind the false paradox of tolerance.

It is exactly the case that there is an observable, sensible geometry as to whose feelings "count":

When your feelings pertain to feeling bad because you are intolerant, your intolerance does not, cannot in good faith ask for tolerance.

When your feelings pertain to feeling bad because you are tolerant yet not being tolerated, you can in good faith insist on tolerance, as the intolerance can it in good faith ask to be tolerated.

Thanks for the non-answer. Should the feelings of men who feel embarrassed or concerned about being asked if they are pregnant count?

They should count exactly as much as the feelings of women, girls, intersex individuals, and everyone else who feel embarrassed or concerned about being asked if they are pregnant.

Progress.

So, if you had a way to spare about half the population from negative feelings, without any detriment to that half or the half of the population that cannot be spared, isn't that a good thing to do?

Not necessarily.

When sparing someone's feelings might have a detrimental effect on a developing fetus (which may or may not be developed enough to have feelings, too) then sparing someone's feelings is the wrong choice. A better way to go is to be very polite and professional and explain that everyone is asked the same questions so there's no reason for anyone to take it personally.

And just how terrible is it for men to be asked if they might be pregnant? You're acting like their mental health could suffer and their social standing might plummet if anyone found out that the folks at the Radiology Department make everyone answer the same questions.

 

[Metaphor]

Nobody on your side has addressed the combination of two things:

My wife was clearly asked for a pregnancy test based on looks, not her chart despite her chart being in the nurse's hand at the time. My SIL has repeatedly been thought male by women in restrooms.

Combine these and you get a failure scenario in which a male-looking female doesn't get asked about pregnancy when they should have been.

I've addressed this more than once. I'm kind of tired of addressing this shit over and over and over.

The Trust used to ask females. The original policy was to ask females. Not 'female looking' people. Females. Your wife is a female and your sister in law is a female. They would be asked under the old policy and the new policy.

My SIL is repeatedly thought male. You're saying a nurse will never do what many other women have???

Does your sister in law tell medical providers she is male?

I am suggesting that you have no evidence that any female was ever missed by the previous NHS Trust policy, and I am not suggesting that anybody's sex should be assumed from how they appear.

AND, for the umpteenth time, not a shred of evidence has been produced to show that some females were missed under the previous policy and this caused an imaging incident with a pregnant woman.

1) It's possible to learn from others' experience--observe a mistake elsewhere.

What mistakes? Where did they happen? Where they due to people assuming somebody's sex from sight, or was sex incorrectly recorded on an admission record?

2) Many things simply involve risk, not inherent bad outcomes. If there wasn't a bad outcome it would probably go unnoticed, and even if there was a bad outcome it might not be attributed to the mistake.

Rational policy is informed by evidence.

 

[Metaphor]

Not necessarily.

When sparing someone's feelings might have a detrimental effect on a developing fetus (which may or may not be developed enough to have feelings, too) then sparing someone's feelings is the wrong choice. A better way to go is to be very polite and professional and explain that everyone is asked the same questions so there's no reason for anyone to take it personally.

But you didn't answer my question. Half the population can be spared the discomfort of being asked if they are pregnant, without any harm to any developing fetus whatever. Males have never been pregnant.

And just how terrible is it for men to be asked if they might be pregnant?

I've answered this many times in this thread and I am not going to do it again.

You're acting like their mental health could suffer and their social standing might plummet if anyone found out that the folks at the Radiology Department make everyone answer the same questions.

I haven't spoken once about their 'social standing' so I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[TomC]

I haven't spoken once about their 'social standing' so I have no idea what you are talking about.

This is a thread you started.
Tell us why asking a simple "Yes or No" question of everyone is a problem.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Not necessarily.

When sparing someone's feelings might have a detrimental effect on a developing fetus (which may or may not be developed enough to have feelings, too) then sparing someone's feelings is the wrong choice. A better way to go is to be very polite and professional and explain that everyone is asked the same questions so there's no reason for anyone to take it personally.

But you didn't answer my question. Half the population can be spared the discomfort of being asked if they are pregnant, without any harm to any developing fetus whatever. Males have never been pregnant.

And just how terrible is it for men to be asked if they might be pregnant?

I've answered this many times in this thread and I am not going to do it again.

You're acting like their mental health could suffer and their social standing might plummet if anyone found out that the folks at the Radiology Department make everyone answer the same questions.

I haven't spoken once about their 'social standing' so I have no idea what you are talking about.

You are assuming all male patients would suffer ‘discomfort’ if asked the same questions all female patients are asked.’ Sure not all make patients are fragile or assholes or so insecure in their masculinity that they are offended.

At least I don’t think so ill of males. Maybe you do…..

 

[Arctish]

Not necessarily.

When sparing someone's feelings might have a detrimental effect on a developing fetus (which may or may not be developed enough to have feelings, too) then sparing someone's feelings is the wrong choice. A better way to go is to be very polite and professional and explain that everyone is asked the same questions so there's no reason for anyone to take it personally.

But you didn't answer my question. Half the population can be spared the discomfort of being asked if they are pregnant, without any harm to any developing fetus whatever. Males have never been pregnant.

If you are absolutely certain there will be no harm whatsoever? Sure. But that would necessitate a very thorough knowledge about the other person. Because if you don't know all about them, you won't know if a procedure might do harm.

If there is a risk of harm, then no, it's not better to spare people the discomfort of being asked such a question. It's better to ask everyone if they might be pregnant than take the chance a pregnant person might be overlooked. Sparing feelings isn't nearly as important as minimizing risks.

And just how terrible is it for men to be asked if they might be pregnant?

I've answered this many times in this thread and I am not going to do it again.

You answered by saying some men would find it insulting and demeaning and I pointed out that's really sexist. If we're done discussing it, then our points stand.

You're acting like their mental health could suffer and their social standing might plummet if anyone found out that the folks at the Radiology Department make everyone answer the same questions.

I haven't spoken once about their 'social standing' so I have no idea what you are talking about.

You used to word 'demeaning' to describe it. From Merriam-Webster

Definition of demeaning
: damaging or lowering the character, status, or reputation of someone or something

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Thanks for the non-answer. Should the feelings of men who feel embarrassed or concerned about being asked if they are pregnant count?

I'm regularly asked at my doctor's office about my sex life. The question makes me uncomfortable but I don't create a bitchfest about it on the internet.

I think we can all agree that Ziprhead's sex life makes us all uneasy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Thanks for the non-answer. Should the feelings of men who feel embarrassed or concerned about being asked if they are pregnant count?

They should count exactly as much as the feelings of women, girls, intersex individuals, and everyone else who feel embarrassed or concerned about being asked if they are pregnant.

This is definitely a good point. Asking a 16 year old teen if they are sexually active, bet most teens have no problem blurting out an affirmative and negative to that one. But good news, now they can "pass".

 

[ZiprHead]

I did not say I would find it upsetting. In my own case, I would find it ludicrous and a pointless waste of my time.

For other men, I imagine some would be amused, some would find it annoying, some would be bewildered, some would be upset, and I can imagine the reasoning and mindset behind all of those reactions. Some might start to regard the hospital with suspicion - as the hospital has shown it doesn't understand basic biological facts. If you do not understand why some men might be upset as being mistaken for women, I suggest you ask yourself why you do claim to understand that being 'misgendered' is distressing.

And most people would find it to be a funny story to tell their buddies at the bar. But not you. No, you've got to blow it all out of proportion because of the evil trans agenda that exists in your head.

 

[Metaphor]

I haven't spoken once about their 'social standing' so I have no idea what you are talking about.

This is a thread you started.
Tell us why asking a simple "Yes or No" question of everyone is a problem.
Tom

I've told you a dozen times and I'm not going to do it again.

 

[Metaphor]

I did not say I would find it upsetting. In my own case, I would find it ludicrous and a pointless waste of my time.

For other men, I imagine some would be amused, some would find it annoying, some would be bewildered, some would be upset, and I can imagine the reasoning and mindset behind all of those reactions. Some might start to regard the hospital with suspicion - as the hospital has shown it doesn't understand basic biological facts. If you do not understand why some men might be upset as being mistaken for women, I suggest you ask yourself why you do claim to understand that being 'misgendered' is distressing.

And most people would find it to be a funny story to tell their buddies at the bar. But not you. No, you've got to blow it all out of proportion because of the evil trans agenda that exists in your head.

Oh yes. Discussing a policy on a message board is a melt down and pointing out it was ideologically driven and not medically driven is "blowing it out of proportion". Okay luv.

 

[TSwizzle]

It’s actually demeaning to the healthcare professionals that are being forced to ask such a stupid question.

Nurse: I’m really sorry Mister Smith but they make me ask this really dumb question even although I know it’s impossible to be a “yes”. It probably got on here because some know nothing, non nurse who has a degree in some bullshit woke subject is on a mission to make everyone conform to a new religion. And I’ll bet the cunt gets paid more me.I can’t even believe I’m asking this. 25 years I have been a nurse but this is what they care more about. Appearances rather than your health. Fuck it, I’ll tell them to do one.

Mr. Smith: I don’t blame you hen.

 

[Metaphor]

Not necessarily.

When sparing someone's feelings might have a detrimental effect on a developing fetus (which may or may not be developed enough to have feelings, too) then sparing someone's feelings is the wrong choice. A better way to go is to be very polite and professional and explain that everyone is asked the same questions so there's no reason for anyone to take it personally.

But you didn't answer my question. Half the population can be spared the discomfort of being asked if they are pregnant, without any harm to any developing fetus whatever. Males have never been pregnant.

If you are absolutely certain there will be no harm whatsoever?

Yes, I am certain that no harm will come to men from refraining from asking if they are pregnant.

Sure. But that would necessitate a very thorough knowledge about the other person. Because if you don't know all about them, you won't know if a procedure might do harm.

We are--or were--talking about imaging procedures that could harm a fetus. No man has ever had a fetus inside him that could be harmed.

If there is a risk of harm, then no, it's not better to spare people the discomfort of being asked such a question. It's better to ask everyone if they might be pregnant than take the chance a pregnant person might be overlooked. Sparing feelings isn't nearly as important as minimizing risks.

The risk was already zero. All pregnant people are pregnant females.

But the current policy does not in fact ask all people, but only people under 60. So, the one part of the previous policy that may have been flawed was not corrected.

And just how terrible is it for men to be asked if they might be pregnant?

I've answered this many times in this thread and I am not going to do it again.

You answered by saying some men would find it insulting and demeaning and I pointed out that's really sexist. If we're done discussing it, then our points stand.

I am done repeating my reasons, which included men's feelings but also included a host of other things.

You're acting like their mental health could suffer and their social standing might plummet if anyone found out that the folks at the Radiology Department make everyone answer the same questions.

I haven't spoken once about their 'social standing' so I have no idea what you are talking about.

You used to word 'demeaning' to describe it. From Merriam-Webster

Definition of demeaning
: damaging or lowering the character, status, or reputation of someone or something

I am referring to the psychological aspect of feeling lowered in dignity, not the external judgment of others.

 

[Toni]

Thanks for the non-answer. Should the feelings of men who feel embarrassed or concerned about being asked if they are pregnant count?

They should count exactly as much as the feelings of women, girls, intersex individuals, and everyone else who feel embarrassed or concerned about being asked if they are pregnant.

This is definitely a good point. Asking a 16 year old teen if they are sexually active, bet most teens have no problem blurting out an affirmative and negative to that one. But good news, now they can "pass".

How the 16 year old responds will almost certainly depend on whether or not a parent or parental figure is near by.

 

[Metaphor]

You are assuming all male patients would suffer ‘discomfort’ if asked the same questions all female patients are asked.

I've assumed no such thing and it beggars belief you could accuse me with such a blatant misrepresentation.

I said some men might find it to be nothing. Some men might find it to be embarrassing. Some men might find it amusing. I answered at length in post 419, which you have obviously not read, or chosen to ignore.

’ Sure not all make patients are fragile or assholes or so insecure in their masculinity that they are offended.

At least I don’t think so ill of males. Maybe you do…..

I am also certain that not all male patients are fragile or assholes or insecure. But of course, I never said otherwise and explicitly said the opposite.